IS Rumple / Gold evil or is he neutral ??

[obisgirl]

I think Rumple/Gold is self serving. I think he has a plan and puts everything into motion to achieve want HE wants. He is a complex character. I wonder if we will see Mr. Gold as sort of a "redemption" story?

I would love it if we get to see some kind of redemption story for Rumple, it would make his character more complex.

Also, we saw him slaughter the guards but we didn't see what happened after that. Like, did he kill Baelfire to keep him possibly running away? We don't know. I would say if he did kill Baelfire, then yes, he would be evil.

[FairyTalePrincess]

It is hard to tell. At first we beleive him to be on Regina's side, then his own and now he is asking for Emma's assistance; I think deep down he wants Regina's curse broken, knows Emma is the key and once the curse is broken he will be completely free to do as he wishes.

[obisgirl]

I had a discussion last night with my boyfriend about this thread and he brought up the classification system used in Dungeons and Dragsons (& I guess other MMO games) that could be applied to characters on OUAT.

for example:

Rumple would be chaotic evil -

Chaotic Evil is referred to as the "Destroyer" or "Demonic" alignment. Characters of this alignment tend to have no respect for rules, other people's lives, or anything but their own desires, which are typically selfish and cruel. They set a high value on personal freedom, but do not have any regard for the lives or freedom of other people. They do not work well in groups, as they resent being given orders, and usually behave themselves only out of fear of punishment.

It is not compulsory for a Chaotic Evil character to be constantly performing sadistic acts just for the sake of being evil, or constantly disobeying orders just for the sake of causing chaos. They do however enjoy the suffering of others, and view honor and self-discipline as weaknesses.

While Mr. Gold would be considered be Neutral Evil -

Neutral Evil is called the "Malefactor" alignment. Characters of this alignment are typically selfish and have no qualms about turning on their allies-of-the-moment. They have no compunctions about harming others to get what they want, but neither will they go out of their way to cause carnage or mayhem when they see no direct benefit to it. They abide by laws for only as long as it is convenient for them. A villain of this alignment can be more dangerous than either Lawful or Chaotic Evil characters, since he is neither bound by any sort of honor or tradition nor disorganized and pointlessly violent.

but Mr. Gold could also be Lawful Evil.

wiki

[Princess Emma]

You keep saying that 'even if he is trying to end the curse the way he's going about it is evil.' Can you explain that more? What exactly is "the way he's going about it" and how is it evil? I haven't seen him do anything in Storybrooke that's really evil. Setting that fire was criminal though.

But I guess you CAN say that Rumple IS evil. If you strictly go by the definition of it. Evil, to me, has such a strong meaning though, that doesn't fit him. (Hitler was evil. Regina is evil too. They both attacked entire countries... they're both worse than Rumple)

BUT... Rumple is evil by the definition. Also, one definition of "wicked" is "playfully malicious or mischievous" and I think that fits him QUITE well. He is playful and he is malicious because he does mean harm to other people sometimes. Like Gepettos parents with that potion that killed them...


So if I'm going to call him wicked, malicious, mischievous, a murderer, immoral, criminal, and bad... I better call him evil too.

You think He meant for Gepetto's Parents To Get the Potion? Suposedly He made it for JImmny's Parents? as for him In general I keep changimg my Opion as to Whither he's Evil or not As for the OTHER Princepal Villian I don't thimk there Is any question if Reginas is Evil Just if she was born evil or became evil; later. PLEASE don't give her a sad back story, Writers I can't Think of One that justiifys what she's done and proably will donng future episodes. That said I'm glad they seem to be giviing her a stronger motive than vanity.

[malchore]

I don't really beleive in "good" and "evil" as labels. I think there are many degrees of selfish and self-less. The evil queen and Rumps are clearly quite selfish. I would say the evil queen is far worse, as she would never "help" anyone with anything. Whereas Rumps is always willing to help when called upon, for a price of course. I mean, he was nice to Ella - actually granted her wishes and everything, for a price. He even offers people a choice to accept his deals of not.

However, I think Regina will ultimately be the one with the redemption story. Last night (in episode Skin Deep) they stressed that true love's kiss can dispell any curse. There might be someone who genuinely melts Regina's heart and she falls in love. Sheriff Grahm doesn't count, because he was nothing more than a toy to her. I don't think it'll be The Stranger, either.

[obisgirl]

if you haven't heard already, robertcarlyle_ is on twitter

and he did a really nice thing last night. he sat down and took questions for an hour via tweets.

so, I asked him:

@robertcarlyle_ There's been a lot of discussion about whether Rumple is evil, neutral or good, or maybe somewhere in-between.

@robertcarlyle_ Is Rumple evil? How would you rate him?

and HE RESPONDED!

@_obisgirl a character should never be easy to unravel

I wasn't expecting a direct answer, but still...my boyfriend who happened to be with me when I read his response, said ‘that is such a Rumpelstiltskin’ way to respond.

[King Arthur]

It seems to me that Rumplestiltskin is not as "dark" as the original Dark One. What I mean is that the previous Dark One really did not want to be the Dark One. He really went out of his way to get Rumplestiltskin to kill him and assume his power.

Now I know Rumplestiltskin is lonely and certainly missing his son and now his lovely Belle. But Rumplestiltskin has not yet found a successor. You'd think after "centuries" he would have found another desperate soul if he really found the curse a burden.

Rumple has also used his powers to "help people" even if it is in exchange for something to his benefit. (i.e. "helping" Cinderella, Jiminy, Belle's fathers land, and even Snow per her request).

The first Dark One (of course maybe controlled by the evil Duke of the first Ogre Wars) seemed to really be creamy, dark and sinister. Rumple can come across dark but then he also has his peculiar sense of humor and seems to delight in the moments when his deals are sealed. I mean the original Dark One never had a crazy giggle!

There are a few explanations for this:

1. Rumplestiltskin really likes being the Dark One and having his power even though he is lonely. This would be supported in the way he did not want Belle to break the curse.

2. He wants to get out of the curse but he does not want to die. Therefore, he has spent his lifetime trying to find an alternate way of getting out of the curse. But in this case, why didn't he go ahead and let Belle's kiss finish working? Seems he still needs his powers for some other reason. Either he is trying to keep the Evil Queen from controlling all of FTL? Or he is still trying to search for a way to bring back or find his son Baelfire? I know this leads to whether Bael is alive or not. I don't think it is possible that Bael is alive in FTL, but possibly he was sent to our world in the future (while he was still alive in FTL) by Rumple for the purpose of meeting up with Emma and being the keys to breaking the curse. His original purpose for assuming the powers as he told Bael was to help others.



I would think a part of him still remembers this even if he is more maniacal now.

[obisgirl]

It seems to me that Rumplestiltskin is not as "dark" as the original Dark One. What I mean is that the previous Dark One really did not want to be the Dark One. He really went out of his way to get Rumplestiltskin to kill him and assume his power.

Now I know Rumplestiltskin is lonely and certainly missing his son and now his lovely Belle. But Rumplestiltskin has not yet found a successor. You'd think after "centuries" he would have found another desperate soul if he really found the curse a burden.

that is a very good point! although, maybe at one point, he might have wanted Baelfire to be his successor. but baelfire either died or ran away.

2. He wants to get out of the curse but he does not want to die. Therefore, he has spent his lifetime trying to find an alternate way of getting out of the curse. But in this case, why didn't he go ahead and let Belle's kiss finish working? Seems he still needs his powers for some other reason. Either he is trying to keep the Evil Queen from controlling all of FTL?

OMG, I don't want Rumple to die if the curse is broken. That last part is very plausible. I don't want the Evil Queen to control FT land either.

[rumplegoldfankristi]

Obviously you can tell from my screen name that I am a Rumple fan, with that said - I actually think that, at heart, Rumple/Gold is good. In Desparate Soul when he was talking to his son about getting the power from the Dark One he said that he would be able to use the power for good and that he would use it to get all of the children out of the Ogre Wars, not just his son.

He never really understood what was going to happen when the power was transferred to him. When the power is being transferred to him he is obviously upset and horrified at what is happening to him. The appeal of the power to him is found in what was his weakness in his "human" form - what he viewed as his cowardice and his "lameness." He no longer had his limp and suddenly felt respected by those who previously ridiculed him. Was he really brave now? Questionable - it may just be that people recognized him to be the Dark One so he was instantly feared. Being feared by others isn't the same thing as being brave - as Belle pointed out when Rumple banished her from his castle - he was still a coward because he couldn't believe anyone could actually want him.

I think he became confortable with the power he felt from no longer FEELING like a coward, if that makes sense. But I don't think he was ever happy with his power. His only shot at happiness was with Belle and we know how that turned out. I think from Belle on out he has been a pretty miserable creature and has been just existing - with the pain of losing his wife, his son, and now Belle. So I can see that at some point in his life he has started to have some kind of self-loathing thing going on, but he is still a sinister kind of guy because he left FTL as the Dark One so he is still going to be sneaky, dark, and sly. And he still hates Regina/EQ and is still in a power struggle with her. But I can also see him wanting to somehow redeem himself and find a way to become good again and part of his plan for doing that may involve destroying the EQs ultimate outcome for her curse. So I think he had been at work in the curse all along but it has been with the motive to ultimately affect the outcome in a positive way, knowing that the EQ was powerful enough on her own to put the curse into motion. So he couldn't prevent the curse from happening so he played along with his own plan. Obviously he is somehow involved with Emma and probably knows about Henry's father, whoever he is, since he brought Henry to Regina. I am betting that it was Rumple's plan all along to get Emma to Storybrooke working with Henry to break the curse. And I won't be surprised if, in the end, he ends up sacrificing himself in some way to make sure the curse is broken.

[obisgirl]

Obviously he is somehow involved with Emma and probably knows about Henry's father, whoever he is, since he brought Henry to Regina. I am betting that it was Rumple's plan all along to get Emma to Storybrooke working with Henry to break the curse. And I won't be surprised if, in the end, he ends up sacrificing himself in some way to make sure the curse is broken.

I think he'll do that too in the end

but then, he won't be with belle.