- This topic has 61 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 12 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Rumplestiltskin and Regina are both bad characters, but is one worse than the other and can either change or be redeemed?
Regina seems to me (just to start the conversation and give my opinion on this) to be evil, because she wanted revenge on Snow for what she did as a child. She also literally ripped her fathers heart out of his chest despite the fact that she claimed to love him. Rumple is the ‘dark one’ and the one who made the curse. Both had things that led them to be the way they are and are again bad.
My theory though is that Regina is worse. Rumple never killed his son and seems power thirsty or hungry rather than just pure evil. He’s done a lot wrong but Regina really only cares about herself and has even gotten rid of the most important person to her, her father. Granted she wasn’t always evil, like when she loved her fiance. But I believe she is now.
While both are bad or regina is evil, I’m not sure that they both can’t be redeemed. Regina seems like she’s past the point of no return, but she wasn’t always that way. It was what happened to her, in her life that created bitterness and hate and more inside her and made her that way. What if something like henry, Emma’s son could help change her? Rumple seems redeemable because it’s being ‘the dark one’ that seems to really influence him and make him do bad things. The real question is, is he power hungry and so much so that he truly is evil as well and can’t change?
These are just my thoughts and comments. I would appreciate anyone’s comments and feedback. Thanks.[adrotate group="5"]I think they are both equally evil. Though i do think that all of Regina’s evil will be laid squarely at Rumpel’s feet. Meaning none of what happened to her would have happened without his intervention. I think Regina is redeemed and Rumpel is not.
@hjbau wrote:
I think they are both equally evil. Though i do think that all of Regina’s evil will be laid squarely at Rumpel’s feet. Meaning none of what happened to her would have happened without his intervention.
I strongly agree with this statement- But I do think Regina is twisted when it comes to Snow in particular, more so than Rumple. I posted this in another thread about Regina:
I would never blame a child for giving up any secret to an adult who purposefully manipulated said child into doing so- that’s all on Cora for me.
Yes, Snow could have asked Regina 1st, but that’s hardly something a motherless, 10yr old, only child is going to do when they’ve never been manipulated by an adult before, esp if it happens to be a female figure who takes an interest in her & then basically starts spouting her (Snow’s) worst fares as their own!
Also Regina never told Snow her mother was a mean spirited (aka evil) person who would force her to marry her father no matter what- she only said they wouldn’t understand & that is what lead Snow to be manipulated into telling all to Cora. Even if Regina didn’t know how evil Cora was- how is that Snow’s fault???I still think Regina blaming Snow instead of her mother is twisted- Snow didn’t kill Daniel, Cora did, Snow didn’t give up the secret to her own father, Cora manipulated it out of her, Snow didn’t arrange for Regina to marry her Father, Cora did. The only common denominator in EVERYTHING is Cora, which Regina is fully aware of & yet Regina still blames Snow = Twisted to me!
I really don’t know how Regina can truly redeem herself, she killed Snow’s father in cold blood & her own- but I still think she is redeemable…..I just don’t know how it could happen yet & be ‘real’ unless she sacrificed herself to save Henry or even better Snow.
Rumples evil grew in him after he took on the Dark ones curse- it’s not his innate nature, he can be redeemed IF he finally gives up his ‘power/curse’ for love.
@hjbau wrote:
I think they are both equally evil. Though i do think that all of Regina’s evil will be laid squarely at Rumpel’s feet. Meaning none of what happened to her would have happened without his intervention. I think Regina is redeemed and Rumpel is not.
Yes, I’m not sure if that’s what is going to happen in “We Are Both”, but it does feel that way. I really wish they wouldn’t go there because I think as we saw in “Stable Boy”, she made her own choices to choose evil. However, I think that they want people to keep guessing, so things will be reversed from last season. Just going by the promos I feel that Rumple will be the bigger bad this season while Regina may team up with the Charmings or at least refrain from harming them directly. However, she won’t be redeemed forever because there was a spoiler last season about how Emma would have to battle Regina in her Evil Queen mode, and since we haven't gotten that and probably won't get that this season, chances are good that Regina will go bad again probably by the end of the season to set up season 3 because I don't see her lasting that long trying to not harm the Charmings. I can just see Emma and Snow returning, and at first everyone sort of uneasily getting along, but she'll soon get jealous over Henry's affection towards his mom and grandmom, and something will cause her to snap again.
Plus, I think that after Rumple meets Bae again, things will go differently for him. I’m not saying that he won’t be evil anymore, but I think that moment will be similar to Regina’s moment with Henry at the end of “Broken”. I think Bae is going to be disgusted with his father’s actions, and hopefully that will make Rumple see the consequences of his actions. Right now he’s just so obsessed with reuniting with Bae that he can’t allow himself to think about anything else ever until that happens. It would serve him right if Bae turned out to have died before they’re reunited, but I think that would cause the end of whatever little humanity remains in Rumple now, so he won’t go that dark this early.
Of course, he won’t be redeemed either at least not yet, but I think that could be the tipping point for him so that next season he can either choose power again or start to let it go. Plus, if Bae is Henry’s father, he’ll at least leave the Charmings alone from now on and really become their ally instead of someone who helps them because it helps him, but I don’t think Regina could ever truly ally with Snow. They might be temporary allies sometime this season, but I think her hate for Snow will always be greater than any love she might have for Henry, so in the end she’ll make the wrong choices again. Not that Rumple won’t too, but Regina was someone who ripped out the heart of her own father even though he loved her, and he was the thing that she loved most, so I don’t really think one ever comes back from that no matter what the writers say about now that void is filled in her heart. Plus, even though Rumple isn’t excused for some of his actions against the Charmings, he’s at least also done some things to assist them even if he was doing so for his gain whereas Regina has always been against them.
Later on, I could see Regina sacrificing herself for Henry or even Snow, but even then while others might see it as her having been redeemed for her actions, it depends on how it happens and why as to whether I think she was truly redeemed even if she did sacrifice herself. Like she can’t just do it because the rest of her life is hopeless that she decides to martyr herself, you know, well at least to me I don’t think that would make her a redeemed character.
I could also see Rumple sacrificing himself to redeem himself, but like Josephine, I think if that happens, Belle will bring him back to life just like in the animated movie. Of course, this year I think that things will be reversed in that Rumple will seem worse, but by the end of the series, I really can’t see Regina ever truly having a happy ending unless she’s reunited with Daniel which means that she’s going to have to die either through her sacrifice or an ironic villain death whereas Rumple can still have a happy ending by surviving.
I certainly agree that short term neither of them will be redeemed. Whatever is going on with Regina and Henry this season will not be a permanent fix. I know i want to see Emma go all magic on Regina at some point.
I think there are degrees of evil and that in the end it’s the actions one does that show who is really evil. When Rumple first became the Dark One, I think he was set on path to become truly evil, until he lost Bae and then it became all about finding his son. I’m not a parent myself, but I know my mom would move heaven and earth to find me if I was “lost” so how much can we honestly judge his actions post-losing Bae as “being evil” when it was done in the name of parental love? He does do some good, even if it’s for selfish reasons, he does reunite Snow and Charming, he grants Cinderella her wish of escaping her life, and he did end the Ogre War.
Regina, like Rumple, isn’t 100% evil either. I always went back and forth on how she felt for Henry until “A Land Without Magic.” I do believe she truly loves him, she is just a very warped individual, intent on keeping her control over the world she and the Dark Curse created. And she has done some pretty bad things too: enacting the Dark Curse that punished more than just Snow and Charming, killing the Huntsman, trying to poison Emma. But we’ve also seen that long ago she was just a girl in love with a wicked mother (now THAT woman might be pure evil…)
I think what will be the true sign of “evil” and redemption (which I’m sure will be a motif throughout the rest of the series, just as it was in LOST) will be what actions they both take from here on out. Will Rumple still the guy who makes bad choices, even if it’s the name of love (for Belle with the Wraith or for Bae and whatever his plan might be)? Will Regina be so focused on keeping her power and control that she destroys more lives?"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"My boyfriend and I actually had a very interesting discussion about this last night. There are different grades of evil and the one evil, we haven’t truly seen on this sure, is evil to the core. Regina is evil but she didn’t start out that way. She was good and became evil later, but we haven’t really seen a character who is ALL out evil. Not even one speck of good.
With that being said, Regina might be redeemable but I don’t want to see it happen right away. That to me, would be a cop out. Like oh, she killed her dad to create the dark curse and now, she’s siding with good because she wants to be a better person? There has to be a gradual change to want to be good. It can’t happen within one season. I will be very disappointed in the writers if they do that.
I don’t think Rumple is either. He’s done bad things but if you think about why he does all these things, they all happen for a reason. I think he created the Dark Curse for Bae, to come and find him in our world but taking down Regina in the process, was icing on the cake. I think Rumpel can change, with Belle’s help and guidance. Like on mentioned one time on the podcast, she’ll be his conscious and I still believe that be her role this season: to keep him from giving into his dark side.
Henry could be that vessel for Regina but she has to really want to change, not just to gain Henry’s trust and hey, I’m still evil.
My off the wall theory….
Okay…. but I am thinking BLUE FAIRY might be the real evil genus behind EVERYTHING. She is the original power and I think she might have set everything up…. She is just quiet and devious so no one sees it coming from her.
Nonnie
.
There are certainly more harmful forms of evil, such as murdering is worse then lying, at least in the eyes of people. It is just that i think Rumpel and Regina have done it all. And honestly i don’t find either of their motivations good reasons to causes the pain and suffering they have caused to their world. They are both evil because they choose to do evil, choose to harm people, to get what they want.
To say one is better than the other–that they have a better chance to be redeemed…I don’t know. Everyone talks about redemption for these two, but one sign of redemption is not only to change their ways, but to feel remorse for what they have done.
Regina has shown a great emotional side in regards to Henry, but she has done much to not only hurt him, but has never shown that she is truly sorry for her actions. She tried numerous times to kill his grandparents before he or Emma was born. She tried to get rid of Emma, she killed Graham and caused Henry to feel intense guilt for his death and fear for Emma’s safety.
Rumpelstiltskin is in the same catagory. While he motivation for finding his son is touching, what he has done is aweful. He killed a Fairy Godmother who never had anything to do with him. He helped create a curse to send everyone to their misery, and not only shows no remorse, but continues to manipulate. Belle said it herself–he still does bad things.
The topic ‘Regina and Rumplestiltskin-Who’s Worse?Can Either Change?’ is closed to new replies.