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(I did a little searching before making this topic, if it’s a repeat, please feel free to direct me to that thread!)
I was doing a bit of reviewing and I was just trying to sort out what solid information we have about the Ogres War. If anyone would like to help add some information to this list I’d be very thankful!
So far we know:
-There are Ogres. They’re in a war.
– Probably. I’m starting to doubt that our heroes have been fighting actual ogres.
-Against most if not all of the human population in FTL/EF
-By the time Rumplestiltskin becomes the Dark One they have been going on for at least 14 years (likely longer)
-All of Rumplestiltskin’s troop died when he deserted
-A seer was being used to aid the troops during the war, although whether she escaped or was simply moved to another site is uncertain. She survived
-The edict to enlist children was enacted by the Duke of the Frontlands (It sounded like they were referring to the children of the ‘front lines’ but I realized it was front lands because “Duke of the Front Lines” doesn’t make any sense)
-The age limit for soldiers was being continually lowered
– Rumplestiltskin enacted a *truce* that stopped the fighting, presumably an end to that Ogres War (OWI?) he brings home the child soldiers
-Granny’s older brothers were veterans of the “Second Ogres War”, she speaks of it like it’s over which implies that
-By the events of “Skin Deep” another war has started. This seems to be at least OWIII
-Snow White has enough knowledge about ogres to know how they hunt/that they are blind
-Ogres still exist when Snow and Emma return to FTL 28 years later[adrotate group="5"]"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
So far we know:
-There are Ogres. They’re in a war.I enjoy you immensely.
According to Jane Espenson at one point, there have been several Ogres Wars. Rumple stopped the first one (is it the first one? or the second? Does the war rage for 14 years all during Bae’s childhood? Or does it stop and start?) AND led the children home. That’s important to know. That’s what he originally intended to do when he took the powers of the Dark One.
I believe the one in Skin Deep is Ogres War II, but we do not know how it ended. Rumple saves Belle’s village but that does not mean it ends the war.
Do Snow and Charming stop it at some point?
Does Rumple make another truce?"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"heehee. Thanks. Likewise. ^_^7
-It may be the first one. At first I thought Rumplestiltskin’s father had abandoned the war as well but it turns out he ran from creditors, so it’s possible there wasn’t any fighting going on when Rumple was a child.
-I also think it would be the first one because Rumple is practically excited to go to war when he is enlisted. This is his big chance! If this was just the next in a long line of wars, I don’t think he or Milah would be as hopeful as they were about it. They talk about him returning so they can start a family. After he gets to the front, a soldier tells him only the wounded go home alive. Since word travels so quickly from the fighting back home, it stands to reason this would become knowledge quickly.
-I’d wager the fighting probably lasted all of Bae’s childhood, maybe with ebbs and flows. People don’t recruit children without having exhausted much of the adult male population first. However it does look like a lot of the recruitment and edicts were enacted by the Duke just to keep the peasants in check (and in fear of him)
-When he gets the Seer’s powers, she says something like “during the Ogres War” which makes it sound like 1) it’s over and 2)there isn’t one going on currently. Based on her age (mid 20’s? early 30’s) I think it’s safe to say that this event takes place very soon after Rumple loses Bae
I wonder what on earth you could offer Ogres for a truce. They don’t seem as though they can be reasoned with (as opposed to Giants) and their… shall we say “culture” seems somewhat rudimentary. I could be wrong. Maybe they’re all brilliant musicians. I imagine whatever you offer them would have to be something very basic- like territory. I don’t even think they place much value on gold etc.
Personal headcanon: Rumple’s truce is just that, a gift of territory to the Ogres. The *Duke’s* territory. 😀
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
Out of the ones that we know…
1) Rumple (Manhattan)
2) Rumple (Desperate Souls)
3) Granny when she was younger (Red-Handed)
4) Belle (Skin Deep)There could definitely be more in between but those are the ones we know of so far. Whether 1 & 2 are actually combined in a super long one or what we do not yet know.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Thanks MysteryKat, I’m going to check out Red-Handed. I’d forgotten that Granny mentioned anything about it.
Edit: When Granny was a child her big brothers were veterans of the “Second Ogres War”. Again, this implies that that war has ended and it means that Belle’s kingdom/town/little quiet village was involved in at least OWIII
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
I’d have to go back to the podcast but I think someone sent in an e-mail to Once podcast that the Ogres Wars are like our World Wars, except they didn’t stop after the second one. They just keep on happening from time to time.
Oh, my head canon for how Rumpel was able to stop the Ogres War in Skin Deep was that he turned all the ogres on the battle field into roses. Because there’s no one to fight, it just stopped.
Here would be a fine thing:
These are regular wars, men against men. They are just called “the ogre wars” as a form of propaganda, y’know to dehumanize the enemy. Sir Maurice makes the comment “Ogres are not men”. Well that seems fairly… obvious. Why say something like that unless he meant “Our enemy doesn’t fight like men”.Just a thought to play with. I’m sure they’re actually ogres.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
@thelonebamf wrote:
Here would be a fine thing:
These are regular wars, men against men. They are just called “the ogre wars” as a form of propaganda, y’know to dehumanize the enemy. Sir Maurice makes the comment “Ogres are not men”. Well that seems fairly… obvious. Why say something like that unless he meant “Our enemy doesn’t fight like men”.Just a thought to play with. I’m sure they’re actually ogres.
Oh, I think the propaganda idea is a good one. Imagine the new Dark One showing up to end the war. Facing the enemy commander, he says “Did you know they call you ‘ogres’? So be it.” With a flick of his wrist, Rumpel transforms the enemy army into sightless monsters, and while they flounder, he leads the children away.
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The more I think about it, the propaganda idea is making more and more sense to me.
-The ogres we’ve seen don’t seem too chatty, hard to make a truce with them
-The ogre we have seen is pretty much a large, simple minded monster. This doesn’t seem to indicate that he is part of a unified group that could be anything like an army
-These ogres don’t indicate that they’d be the sort to launch a lasting war that goes on for years and years. I mean, then may run into a human settlement and destroy it, but it seems like if you can get out of their way, then you’re fine. It’s not like the ogres are going to hunt people down and raze their villages because someone assassinated their arch-duke.
-If there have been multiple wars, it doesn’t seem likely that it’s with ogres. The ogres seem like they have few desires food, territory to get said food, and yeah, that seems like it. Humans wouldn’t go picking a fight with them, the only reason for multiple wars would be if the humans expanded into ogre territory but that seems pretty foolish on their part
-In our history, plenty of wars have “misleading” names so sure, why not call our fight with the neighboring lands “the ogres war”? It’s simple enough to imagine a “they aren’t men, they fight like ogres” turning into an iconic line
-There has to be more to it, otherwise why didn’t the Duke just tell the Dark One “turn them all in to snails and smoosh them”? If they were fighting a neighboring land that had something they wanted (say an economic benefit of some sort) then the Duke would need the enemy to remain human as to be able to continue to provide it after the fighting had ended..I um… may have to go amend my first “fact”.
"Nothing is easier than to denounce the evildoer; nothing is more difficult than to understand him."
@thelonebamf wrote:
-These ogres don’t indicate that they’d be the sort to launch a lasting war that goes on for years and years. I mean, then may run into a human settlement and destroy it, but it seems like if you can get out of their way, then you’re fine. It’s not like the ogres are going to hunt people down and raze their villages because someone assassinated their arch-duke.
-If there have been multiple wars, it doesn’t seem likely that it’s with ogres. The ogres seem like they have few desires food, territory to get said food, and yeah, that seems like it. Humans wouldn’t go picking a fight with them, the only reason for multiple wars would be if the humans expanded into ogre territory but that seems pretty foolish on their part..
Good points 😀
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