Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › General discussion and theories › A Kind of Crazy Theory on How Rumple and Peter Met
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May 25, 2013 at 4:59 am #136961schaendlichParticipant
I know that this may sound kind of out of it, and it’s kind of long, but here goes! Time to geek it out! :ugeek:
Theory #1: Around the threads I’ve seen a lot of revamping of similar ideas, but I don’t really see people theorizing on exactly how long the Shadow has existed. For all we know, he predates the Dark One. Peter was already running things only a few months after Rumple became the Dark One. It takes more than a few months to become an entity of evil, gather Lost Boys to do your bidding, take over an entire realm and successfully jump back and forth between a world that it took the Dark One 200 years to get to. It is possible that Peter had already built up a reputation long before Rumpelstiltskin was a even a glint in his father’s eye.
But, here comes the kind of crazy part (and no, I will not theorize that Peter is Rumple’s dad.)
It seems that because Peter has been around so long, isn’t it possible that Rumple’s association with him began Post-Dark One? It steals boys, and is partial to children who have been abandoned. Perhaps, after Rumple’s father died, he was stolen away by Peter to become a new vessel for him. I believe that (for some reason) Peter is dying, aging, whatever etc. and needs a child with a certain characteristic within them that allows him to sustain life. I believe that the property needed is that the child be human, but magical just as Peter is ( if the plot will follow that portion of the story). That is why the kid would have to be a boy, and abandoned as well. He would have to mirror Peter’s childhood form as closely as possibly to work.
However, because Neverland has the disposition of moving through time differently, they once again find the wrong child. The Shadow saw in the future that there would be a male child born of magic, who was also lost (Henry, the grandson of True love magic, given up for adoption) he went to the right bloodline, but the wrong time, which is why he slowly worked his way from Rumple, down to finding Bae later on. He knows the magic that is coming, it’s just that he has yet to pinpoint where the bloodline and the magic will converge.
He would still be a fledgling ruler still by then (by Neverland standards), and not yet have a face to the child, so he would try to merge with Rumple and it would cause Peter and his shadow to separate. (We don’t know what splitting a shadow from someone actually does yet). Also, because we know that Rumple always screws things up, perhaps he somehow helps Peter get close to his goal in some naive, childish way. Rumple is let go because Peter knows that if it is not Rumple it’s someone along his bloodline. This could also mean that Baelfire was living amongst the Lost Ones for 200 years, and once Peter caught wind of the fact that the kid was there, he let him go to continue the family lineage to Henry. (Explains how Bae gets back to our world in modern time) Or, he could have held Bae to let him go at the proper moment. With this theory, I can also assume that the Lost Ones are just Peter’s first failed attempts at finding a vessel (before he knew what he was doing). At some point as Peter got better at what he does, the future became clear and he got Henry’s actual face to go by, which is why his search became more precise.
Also, I think that perhaps Peter didn’t start out evil. I think that he did something awful that caused the end of all good magic in Neverland, and robbed Peter of his “non-aging” properties.
Whew, that was long. π I’m sorry if this idea already existed, and I didn’t see it. There were a lot of tweaks and possibilities I wanted to add, but I didn’t. I’m also sorry that ti’s so long. This is my first time posting a topic on here. π³ So, what are your thoughts?
[adrotate group="5"]May 25, 2013 at 8:08 am #196047vroniParticipantI think you have a great theory there and I was actually theorizing in the same direction ^^ I also imagine that Greg and Tamara are part of the Lost Ones, which is why they said that Henry is much more valuable than the destruction of Storybrooke. What do you think?
May 25, 2013 at 9:43 am #196054schaendlichParticipantThat’s a good idea! It is plausible to believe that Greg is a Lost One, but I’d have to know what Tamara’s deal is before I say much on her. I don’t believe that she has any relations in the Enchanted Forest (or any that she knows of).
Also, what’s Tamara’s deal with saying that things were “unholy” or “abominations”. I don’t think Peter was much for spiritual brainwashing, so I’m even more hesitant to place her anywhere near Peter other than being a blind follower. πMay 25, 2013 at 10:45 am #196055vroniParticipantI do think she is a blind follower. Especially given the way she talks, she sounds like a member of a cult – which might be Peters cult, but of course it doesn’t have to be. She could just have met Greg and he told her about Neverland after something magical happened to her grandmother, which made her open her mind to the idea of fighting magic…
May 25, 2013 at 12:33 pm #196056RumplesGirlKeymasterI really like the idea that PP needs Henry because his of a similar situation, having been abandoned and I really like the idea that PP is dying and needs the children (my theory is that he needs their shadows) to sustain either him or the magic of NL that keeps people from aging.
Tamara and Greg (btw: to reduce having to type out their names, a lot of us here just call them GOAT= Greg/Owen And Tamara) in my mind are just foot soldiers, they don’t really know the agenda of The Home Office. Tamara’s backstory needs to be told, no one comes into this world hating magic as much as she does. There has to be something deeper. Back during the airing of Lacey, many of speculated that she was the daughter of Robin Hood and Marian and that they fled the EF after they stole the wand that was used to heal Marian. But it wasn’t enough and Marian died in our world giving birth to Tamara which turned Robin Hood very angry and sad and thus Tamara hates magic. Still not sure if that holds weight.Don’t worry about being too long. We all go on tangents around here. π
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 25, 2013 at 1:14 pm #196063vroniParticipantExactly what I was thinking!
The idea of a person needing people to sustain their youth is also not new. There is a German fantasy novel by Otfried PreuΓler called “Krabat” and there is a guy sucking out the youth of his young workers (- although these young guys die when he does it and they mustn’t fall in love. Maybe that’s another reason why there are only boys so far :D). I imagine something similar happens in Neverland like Rumplesgirl is saying.May 25, 2013 at 2:37 pm #196069PheeParticipant@Schandlich wrote:
Around the threads I’ve seen a lot of revamping of similar ideas, but I don’t really see people theorizing on exactly how long the Shadow has existed. For all we know, he predates the Dark One. Peter was already running things only a few months after Rumple became the Dark One. It takes more than a few months to become an entity of evil, gather Lost Boys to do your bidding, take over an entire realm and successfully jump back and forth between a world that it took the Dark One 200 years to get to. It is possible that Peter had already built up a reputation long before Rumpelstiltskin was a even a glint in his father’s eye.
It’s anyone’s guess right now how long PP has been doing what he does, and it’s tricky to compare the passage of FTL time, (where the Dark One was) to NL time. But yes, PP was certainly established by the time Rumple became the Dark One. How that relates time wise to when the Dark One was originally created…no idea.
It steals boys, and is partial to children who have been abandoned. Perhaps, after Rumple’s father died, he was stolen away by Peter to become a new vessel for him.
Really hoping that this is the case that Rumple was taken to NL as a boy. Like you said elsewhere in your post, it’s all about PP narrowing down the right boy in that bloodline.
I believe that (for some reason) Peter is dying, aging, whatever etc. and needs a child with a certain characteristic within them that allows him to sustain life. I believe that the property needed is that the child be human, but magical just as Peter is ( if the plot will follow that portion of the story). That is why the kid would have to be a boy, and abandoned as well. He would have to mirror Peter’s childhood form as closely as possibly to work.
Interesting parallel between Henry and PP. Could certainly play into why Henry is the particular kid he needs. I’m currently leaning towards him wanting Henry for the opposite reason though, I think maybe he needs to use Henry as a means to be able to actually grow up, as opposed to staying young. PP has a line, “To die will be an awfully big adventure.” And Henry is unique in that he was the only person in a magical town who was able to age. So I’m thinking that PP wants to be able to age and eventually die, and Henry is his only means to achieve it.
He would still be a fledgling ruler still by then (by Neverland standards), and not yet have a face to the child, so he would try to merge with Rumple and it would cause Peter and his shadow to separate. (We don’t know what splitting a shadow from someone actually does yet).
I’m super curious about the shadow separation and what it entails and what it means. Had been thinking that the Shadow had been Felix’s, but then it was noticed by someone, (sorry, don’t recall who), that he clearly has his shadow in one of the scenes with Hook. So it’s definitely possible that the Shadow is indeed Pan’s, and I can’t wait to see how they got split.
With this theory, I can also assume that the Lost Ones are just Peter’s first failed attempts at finding a vessel (before he knew what he was doing). At some point as Peter got better at what he does, the future became clear and he got Henry’s actual face to go by, which is why his search became more precise.
Wouldn’t it be creepy if we see a whole big group of Lost Ones crying, and they’re all Jared Gilmore look alikes. Obviously the ones with Felix aren’t, but I’m assuming they’re more like PP’s personal secret service, as opposed to boys collected in the search for Henry.
May 27, 2013 at 12:40 am #196204schaendlichParticipant@RumplesGirl wrote:
I really like the idea that PP needs Henry because his of a similar situation, having been abandoned and I really like the idea that PP is dying and needs the children (my theory is that he needs their shadows) to sustain either him or the magic of NL that keeps people from aging.
Wow! Needing their shadows is an interesting theory. π I’m kind of hoping that Henry’s shadow is important, as well. I’m wondering, exactly what removing a shadow does! I’m sure it hurts… π
Tamara and Greg (btw: to reduce having to type out their names, a lot of us here just call them GOAT= Greg/Owen And Tamara) in my mind are just foot soldiers, they don’t really know the agenda of The Home Office. Tamara’s backstory needs to be told, no one comes into this world hating magic as much as she does. There has to be something deeper. Back during the airing of Lacey, many of speculated that she was the daughter of Robin Hood and Marian and that they fled the EF after they stole the wand that was used to heal Marian. But it wasn’t enough and Marian died in our world giving birth to Tamara which turned Robin Hood very angry and sad and thus Tamara hates magic. Still not sure if that holds weight.
Hmm. I dunno. I’m still one of those who really can’t take any sort of stand on who Tamara is. I always maintain that she’s not from the Enchanted Forest. I really don’t see how she could be. Though being Marian’s child is an interesting prospect, something about Tamara herself just puts that idea off for me. I do believe that she most definitely came int contact with magic in an extremely negative way. I also believe that there is a reason that Tamara was cast as African American. Ed and Adam always say that they don’t judge parts based upon race, so there must be specific reasoning as to why they would specifically ask that Tamara be African American. It’s why I partially believe that she has something to do with characters in the past who were also African American (Lancelot, Cinderella’s Fairy Godmother). I believe that it also might have to do the picture that she possesses of her grandmother. Plus, her use of words like “unholy” make me wonder if she has some sort of religious affiliation. And even on that note, it’s too much of a stretch to say that she’s the secret lovechild of Esmeralda and Count Frollo or something. (i.e. it’s the only heavily religious story that became a Disney movie that I can recall).
Wait. Oh, no. Now the ideas about what that could mean are unfolding in my brain! Considering her relations with PP, she might have been taken by him, and that would explain why she hadn’t aged. And maybe PP had brainwashed her even further, appealing to her ideals so that he could use her!
…or maybe, I just took that to far. π I apologize.Either way, I think there’s something very important that all of us are missing about who she is. π
GOAT!? π Nice. I may just start using that!
May 27, 2013 at 2:30 am #196218kfchimeraParticipantWe have had some really long threads on this subject over in the episode section, back when all we were going on was spoilers and promos. I”m starting to lose track of what variation of theories we’ve talked about and haven’t but I’m not sure I like the idea of Rumpel having been taken to NL as a boy pre-Dark One. It’s possible as nothing would contradict that having happened–but I want being trapped in NL to have been something Bae and Hook shared that Rumpel did not. I just think it sets up some better conflict and dynamics, and Rumpel’s a bit over-used in a way, much as I love him.
I think I still prefer the idea that PP is nothing but a shadow (but not the one we saw). The scene where Felix talks about the ripping is the scene where you see Felix’s shadow on the door next to Hook–it’s quite noticeable as all the boys walk out of the cabin next to Hook, and their shadows appear, and Felix is the last and his appears as well.
From there I like the idea that Rumpel cut a deal with the shadow of some sort–originally we thought to find Bae, but that’s been disproven. So the other was that he wanted him to find the “undoing” boy. That seems off in the timeline. So now I think the deal was later on and it was ironic that Bae was there and Peter wanted Henry–but Rumpel did not know–because the deal he made was for that curse that Rumpel eventually had Regina cast.
βIf I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?β -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
May 27, 2013 at 2:34 am #196221RumplesGirlKeymasterWe have had some really long threads on this subject over in the episode section, back when all we were going on was spoilers and promos. I”m starting to lose track of what variation of theories we’ve talked about and haven’t but I’m not sure I like the idea of Rumpel having been taken to NL as a boy pre-Dark One. It’s possible as nothing would contradict that having happened–but I want being trapped in NL to have been something Bae and Hook shared that Rumpel did not. I just think it sets up some better conflict and dynamics, and Rumpel’s a bit over-used in a way, much as I love him
Yeah, I’ve never been sold on the idea that Rumple was taken to NL as a boy. I think it’s a much better story if he’s scared of PP as the Dark One, if only because I want PP to be uber dark and creepy. My headcanon is that Rumple went to NL to get squid ink and PP attempted to keep him there and take his shadow because the Dark One’s shadow is very powerful.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love" -
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