We saw a lot of wonderful Hook/young Bae moments on the Jolly Roger – teaching him how to steer the ship (and apparently how to navigate). We even watched Hook painfully scratch through the markings at the helm because it hurt him too much to see it after his relationship with Bae fell apart when Bae discovered that Hook was the pirate who ruined his family even though he was just told that Rumple killed her, not Hook like he was originally led to believe.
There are…a lot of blanks to be filled in. Hook said that he spent quite some time with Bae so I’d like to see more of that for sure. They definitely had some cute fatherly moments between the two of them, and bonding over their lousy fathers (a backstory we still need for Hook since all we’ve seen so far is his relationship with his brother), but there were definitely moments that showed he actually is good with kids and genuinely cared about Bae (which helps negate the “he won’t be a good dad for Henry” stuff.
Right now he’s keeping Henry at arm’s length by referring to him as “Emma’s son” or the “boy” or the “lad” and we’ve only ever heard him say Henry once when he asked Emma who Henry’s father was after she said the kid just lost his dad, but we haven’t really gotten any interaction for Henry and Hook yet.
I’m really hoping once they get him back that Henry will be going around hugging everyone and literally the only person he won’t be is Hook and that Emma tells him to go thank him too and it starts off all awkward and then Henry just hugs him anyway cause everyone says he was instrumental in getting them there and helping (he saved Charming’s life too – that should win him some favor), and then you just see Hook melt at once again having a child care about him if only briefly (fully expect Henry to be SwanFire til given a reason not to be but the kid believes in true love, so we’ll see what happens!) – That’s my perfect Henry headcanon though, everybody else will be hugging him but Hook won’t feel like he has a reason to be included. *major sad face/Killian feels* so somebody better remind everyone that he’s helpful and one of them.
I’m not really sure what to make of the rest of Hook and Neal’s history. We’ve seen but a glimpse of it so far which originally led many of us to believe that it wasn’t for very long but he could easily have been there for awhile. Hook taught him many things and we’ve seen that come into play once in awhile, but he obviously grew to care for him greatly. He initially took him in because of Milah but he was absolutely devastated when Bae found the sketch of Milah and it all fell apart. Hook was ready to give up his revenge (which we know is a huge thing for him) in order to be a family with Bae as Milah would have wanted. The look on his face was excruciating, hearing how much Bae was hurt by all of this and the assumptions that he made off of the information. He didn’t really have much time to process the fact that Rumple killed Milah, not Hook and then jumped to Hook being just as bad as Rumple (in all fairness, Bae was a child and we see that kind of tendency from Henry once in awhile and then they grow out of it so it’ll be fine).
The problem comes in with the last time WE saw them interact. I don’t count their time in NY because it was offscreen that Hook was tied up so not important enough for us to know, and they didn’t talk before that at all, or any other time in SB. So until this episode, we haven’t seen them talk at all as adults and they seemed to be perfectly fine until Hook tried to smooth over things by commenting on the elephant in the room to get it out of the way and be done with it. He was truly surprised that Emma didn’t say anything and was initially hurt by it and then seemed to realize it meant he had a chance still because of the way Neal was acting about it. It’s rather unfortunate that Hook chose to stoop to his level of childish behavior about it all, sending Emma over the edge, but hopefully that’s our of their systems now. Boys will be boys I guess, but they’re hundreds of years old and should know better!
So that leaves what happened in NL in the past that we don’t know about. How did Hook know about Neal’s cave? Did he keep an eye on him after he sent him with the Lost Boys?
I think the answer to this is yes. He made a rash decision in anger because Bae was adamant about leaving him. There’s no escaping NL (or mostly no escaping it) and Hook was responsible for his crew as well. The Lost Boys were constantly coming around looking for Bae and had he just wandered off, this likely wouldn’t have stopped and they would have gotten more and more upset. It’s not an excuse, just like I don’t excuse Neal just because his actions for various things were with the best of intentions at times, but Hook did have a lot going on that was more than just Bae.
It was a knee-jerk reaction that I’m sure has haunted Hook ever since then. He’s always extremely sad when talking about Bae and cared for him a great deal. Neal seemed to think his sword was back in the cave and surprised that Hook had given it to Emma and that Hook was sentimental. I was a little surprised at that line from him because he did seem to have a good relationship with Hook until he discovered Milah’s picture. I fully expected something along the lines of “You kept this? All this time?” and have a moment where Neal recognizes that Hook does care about him, and I think maybe in a roundabout way that line did that, but I was hoping for more acknowledgement of their past friendship.
The timeline is majorly fuzzy, especially when people don’t age for a very long time. Hook said they spent quite some time together and I think that what ultimately happened was all done very quickly and presumably they both regretted it whether they got a chance to say so or not. It’s clearly something that affected Hook. It was the last time he let someone in so close that he almost stopped caring about his revenge. We saw him make the same offer to Bae that Emma made to him – to be a part of something. To let go of the longer/revenge thing and have people that care about you. He wanted to be a family with Bae and it destroyed him when Bae refused (though he had good reason to).
I HATE that he gave Bae up to the Lost Boys even though it wouldn’t him or his crew to keep protecting someone who doesn’t want to be there and I fully believe that he gave Bae every opportunity to change his mind and then he would have fought to the death for him, no question. He begged and pleaded and it did absolutely nothing.
We don’t know how long Bae stayed with the Lost Boys. They may have realized it wasn’t Henry, and he took off on his own until he “escaped” – still seems like Pan manipulated everything in the timeline so I’m really not sure if he escaped or was let go, we’ll have to see how his plan works and what information Pan gives out along the way, but we do know he was off alone living in the caves presumably for a long time. He had made it his home and had tally marks on the wall and sketches of things that meant something to him everywhere etc etc.
It IS important that we know that Hook knew about this cave. I have a feeling once things calmed down again, he was panged with major regret and probably went to make sure that Bae was safe. He may have even gone after him to try to repair things (we just don’t know) but he did find the cave. For all we know, he saw Bae and almost said something, only to not end up doing it because he presumed that Bae was happier/better off without him at that point. We just don’t know yet.
But given the way that Hook has talked about him, including this episode actually REMINDING us that Hook does indeed consider him a friend, as well as seeing all of those adorable moments of Hook and young Bae when he was pulling him over with his hook and teaching him how to steer and ruffling his hair, that there was a genuine friendship between them and that everything was great until Bae found his mother’s picture.
At the beginning of this episode, it seemed like they were perfectly fine and Neal wasn’t holding anything against him (not even stabbing Rumple – there was literally no reaction to anything until he brought up Emma). Whereas when Neal was confronted with Rumple in NY, he was having none of it AT ALL.
It was also interesting to me that even though Neal was OBVIOUSLY upset (and rightly so) given the information that Hook gave him, they still had more of a playful banter about how Hook came to NL on a ship through a portal but was giving him grief over a magical coconut. It was cute. I felt like the “are you daft?” scene would have been an even lovelier Hook/Neal moment had it played before Neal finding out there was any competition for Emma’s affections, but it still served as a reminder (at least to me) that these two were once good friends and it seemed more like a playful/friendly fight in that moment. It wasn’t until Neal went to leave that scene, and then again later, and then outright fighting later on that that disappeared albeit temporarily.
I have high hopes that they’ll sort it all out. I think Emma needs to learn all about it at some point but Hook and Neal need to work it out between themselves too. Should be extremely interesting once Rumple is added to the mix as well. Neal is a grown man now. He loves his Papa (even though he doesn’t trust him) and I still think, even with Emma being an issue, that he cares about Hook as well. He’s had a lot of time to think things through and I think on some level will understand it better now that he’s grown up (and has made mistakes of his own).
Hook was the one who told him about Milah. That she ran away with Hook but regretted leaving him every day and that Rumple was the one that killed her. Bae reacted badly (obvious reasons) but then said that Hook was as bad as his other (bio) dad Rumple and threw a tantrum about it. Wanting to go back to his “real family: the Darlings” etc etc. Who does that sound like? HENRY. Telling Emma she was just as bad as Regina, or calling Emma his “real mom” but we know he loves BOTH Regina AND Emma and considers them all to be his real (& complicated) family, so I fully expect Neal to care about both Hook and Rumple, especially once some of these issues get sorted out.
Neal will run into the same types of issues that Henry and Emma are right now. Hook and Neal are now roughly the same age (like Emma is with her parents), and Neal has his dad back in his life but Hook was like a dad to him so he likely still cares about that, and now they can be more like friends cause he doesn’t really need him to be a dad (+ the awkwardness with the Emma thing), but then he’s still family like everyone is to Henry regardless of the weirdness of the situation (like Regina being both his mother and his step-great-grandmother). It’s just gonna be one of those things, but like Emma and Snowing – it will be more like friends that are family rather than parent/child since they’re all the same age.
Hook has never been able to destroy anything that was Milah’s. He should have destroyed Rumple’s only way of finding his son and let that serve as revenge, but he couldn’t because Milah made it. He took Bae in in the first place because he was Milah’s son. He cares greatly about him to the point where he was willing to give up his revenge only to have it thrown in his face and rejected. He was genuinely hurt by it and they built that relationship in so that it IS all complicated. They genuinely care about each other and have hurt each other deeply (and in different ways – I don’t condone how Hook reacted by handing him over but I get why he did it), but I do think that genuine love is there and will resurface over time.
They have a past and they genuinely cared about each other. They know things about the other that Emma doesn’t have a clue about. It’s like the shared past between Emma and Neal. He knows a side of her Hook doesn’t, just like Hook knows about the younger version of Neal was who very different to the man Emma knew before.
Ultimately I have massive hope for the CSF friendship and that they can all get along once this triangle business is over with. Neal may not need him as a father figure any more, but they do share people they love and that’s a start. I would really love to see how Bae escaped and have him talk about learning how to navigate from Hook when they go to leave. They’re all counting on Neal to get them home but we’re getting pieces of the puzzle at a time. It would be great to show him doing what Emma did in this episode – acknowledging who taught him that very useful thing.
It is interesting how alike the men are and how different. A lot of the skills that Neal taught Emma were probably taught to him by Hook (at least some of them likely) which is why they seem similar at times (and the stories paralleled slightly in Tallahassee) but Emma is in the process of learning how different they are too, and appreciating Hook more and more every episode and seeing him stand by his word (which is huge for her as well as sets him apart from Neal).
So I think there’s definitely hope of Hook and Neal becoming friends again. They should at least learn to get along since they’ll both be in Henry and Emma’s lives and it would be really great to see that friendship rekindled. I’d also really love to see more flashbacks of Hook with young Bae when they were getting along too (perhaps with the navigation training – all I remember is the helm stuff; I need to rewatch!). I know Neal mentioned navigation in a deleted scene on the ship with Henry, but since it’s an important point to this season I bet we’ll get a little nod somewhere, and maybe a moment of pride for Hook in learning how Bae escaped the first time / appreciation from Neal for his old friend Hook teaching him. That would be lovely.
As I’ve said, we’ve seen Neal be in a relationship with someone other than Emma but have the two of them get along fine for Henry’s sake (and I actually loved their interaction in those moments, it was much more lighthearted and fun!), and I think the same will be true once Hook is in the picture officially too. Neal will see that Emma’s happy and that should be enough and I do believe that the guys genuinely care about each other as well. I hope that comes out more as the season progresses because I need that relationship fixed as much as I need the triangle over and for CaptainSwan to happen!
But I agree – we definitely need more flashbacks to explain their shared history a bit more. We’ve only seen Bae arrive and learn a little bit from him and then flip out about Milah and decide to leave, only to be handed over. We know he lived in the cave and he somehow got off the island, but we haven’t SEEN any of that yet. But the fact that NONE of that has been brought up, even in snarky comments to Hook over Emma, makes me think he’s not as bitter over the past as some are expecting. He was WAY more reactive with Rumple and that’s the hardest relationship for him to deal with. I think maybe over time he’s realizing that with Hook he made mistakes too, but with Rumple it was all on him (one could maybe argue Neal tried to change him and it backfired, but it WAS the only deal Rumple ever broke so he had good reason to believe in him and he abandoned him – technically Neal abandoned Hook, not the other way around).
So we’ll have to wait and see! I adored Hook with young Bae though so I want them to be alright! I’ve been very pleasantly surprised in how they’ve been behaving about the whole thing (in and around the childishness/stooping to the MINE MINE MINE level of a 5 year old with a toy, but I think that will be put aside now). And like I said, they still seemed to have a playful/loving banter even after Neal found out about the kiss.
It was after that that he undermined any nice thing that Hook was trying to do to be helpful by automatically either snapping at him saying his sentimentality wasn’t needed because she has the real thing now, or mocking him not being able to adjust to modern day in the blink of an eye/hardly giving him a chance to try without just accusing him OUT LOUD IN FRONT OF EMMA of trying to make it about impressing Emma instead of getting the job done. It was Neal that made it about that, and then Hook stooped to his level when Emma was already upset at the idea of it being over that but by the end of the episode he calmed way down and Hook seems focused on the mission as well since he interrupted the TinkerFire smiles to get this show on the road.
I’m VERY curious about how this continues to play out. I do think Hook and Neal can do it though, in and around their shared love of Emma. I’ve been so fed up today because everyone keeps saying Neal was being selfless in the shadow scene because he told Emma to save herself but I coulda sworn that BOTH men did that. Neal said it first I think but Hook completely agreed with him. Correct me if I’m wrong but I was CHEERING because they actually AGREED on something for once! (And it was something selfless for sure but it wasn’t just one of them!)
I still think that moment was a very interesting staging since they kept Emma close to Hook, Hook was the one she called out for, and the candle magic somebody made a gifset of showing the parallels to when Rumple taught her how to use magic with it being about emotions and think of who you’re protecting, but then Emma said that Regina was the one who taught her how to use it so I suppose it could have just been out of complete anger at the two of them for being idiots, but she was still physically closer to Hook, called out for him IN TERROR, and Neal was way off to the side shouting for her, and then being extremely disappointed in her use of magic.
I have a feeling the magic thing will come up again in the near future, especially since in the promo, Neal is RIGHT THERE when Emma and Regina use magic so we should get more reactions out of that. My guess: he’s really not gonna like that at all and yet again, somebody that loves Emma will be disappointed with her for using her magic to try to save the people she loves. Snow is already disappointed in her / worried about what she’d be willing to do with Regina’s help because she doesn’t want it to destroy their family. Emma is doing only what is necessary and without any bloodshed, but still gets criticized for it. Hook is the only one who completely trusts her and her every decision and isn’t the least bit bothered by her using magic to save the ones she loves, even though he’s been burned by magic before.
Everyone’s opinions are completely valid and understandable from their points of view 100%. That’s what I love about Hook and Emma is that he sees her for what she is and never ceases to be amazed by it and loves it because it’s all a part of what makes her her, while others in her life don’t seem to read her well or understand how she feels and are disappointed with a major part of her: magic. It’s scary for them. They’ve been burned by it badly before too and see how quickly people have slipped to using it for evil. But Emma is the product of true love and a source of light and hope. She’s doing what she has to but in the right way and for the right reasons. She won’t let herself go as dark as Rumple or Regina with it. Hook knows and trusts that. Emma can’t change the fact that part of her very essence is pure true love magic. She can choose not to use it sure but it’s still very much a part of her.
Which is why I’ve always had an issue with Neal and Emma on that point. Neal hates magic and he has every reason to and I don’t blame him one bit. But with Emma in his life, he’s never going to get away from the thing he hates most. Now he’s kinda stuck back where he didn’t want to be because his family, all that he has, are staying there together so he can’t escape magic and he can’t walk out. But he’s very much like Henry in many ways. Magic has ruined their lives, and while they love people who are magical, it hurts them. Henry wanted it DESTROYED so that his family would stop hating each other all the time. So pairing the very essence of pure magic with someone who hates it is tough for me. Hook doesn’t seem to mind as it’s just a part of her and he believes, IN HER, but Neal has massive issues with it. Henry doesn’t love it but it doesn’t stop him from loving Regina and it won’t stop him from believing in Emma, but it’s harder for someone like Neal.
That’s one of the reasons I’m really loving the potential of TinkerFire and I’m torn on how I want that to play out. On one hand I would love for Tink to go back with them and prove to Blue that she deserves her wings and get it back and on the other, I’d love for her to have the OPTION of getting her wings back from Blue and turning it down and choose a mortal life with Neal instead. It would be very fitting for her character in multiple ways and it would have someone officially choose magic over him (which was one of the appeals of the idea of EvilFire for me since Regina is already trying to quit for Hnery and Neal would have helped her in that but now they can both be on Team Parents with Emma so it will be ok and still helpful). On the other hand I wouldn’t mind seeing Tink become a fairy again but then if she doesn’t choose to clip her wings it’ll 1) Be Nova all over again 2) Be Rumple all over again for Neal in a way, watching someone choose magic over whatever they have and 3) It would kill off yet another ship that I saw potential in that actually made Neal smile.
Forgive me for crackshipping but I like my ships to actually make each other happy instead of miserable, and everytime we see him flirt or be happy in any way, it gets shot down. It’s very upsetting and he’s been through so much. I’d love to see him start something with a clean slate and just be happy instead of constantly having the past thrown in his face which, Emma’s walls would definitely do.
It’s just excruciating to watch. Emma was trying to be a little playful with Hook (emphasis on little) when she said “well you are a pirate” and she was all little smiles and it seemed like she was just ribbing him cause OF COURSE most people would think he wouldn’t choose his friend in that situation. She LIT UP when she said he chose his friend and he was hurt that it surprised her, but when she called him a pirate it was like something inside of him died because he’s been doing so much to counteract that! Can’t wait until she can call him a pirate and have it be a term of endearment instead of a slap to him. It was bad enough when Charming said it!
*major Killian / CaptainSwan / TinkerFire / CaptainCharming / CaptainFire / CSF feels*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.