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A time-loop theory about what happens if Z succeeds in her plan.
-Yes I am crazy.. but hey, I enjoy being so. But this actually works.. I think! Otherwise I have no doubt you will tell me if it don’t 🙂 Here we go.
Z want to take the Snowing baby, because she needs that baby to be the baby taken in the tornado instead of herself.
That way she can create AU.
So now she steals the baby- sends it back in time somehow- the baby is taken by the twister- Baby Z somehow ends up back home with Cora and Henry- She lives her life like Regina did, doing pretty much the same things as her.
Up until Rumple comes along. He is now brainless in this Alternate Reality, because Z took his brains in the Old Reality, so he can’t figure out how to make Z do his curse to go to Storybrook for him, so the curse never happens.
Z marries Leo, like Regina did and drives away her stepdaughter Snow, who meets Charming. Charming is now courage less, because Z took his courage in Old Reality. But Snow and Charming still falls in love and has Emma.
Emma grows up as a peasant because Snow and Charming have been exiled by Z. Maybe Z even kills Charming and Snow. Or they have a miserable life.
Emma somehow learns what happened before this Au and she remembers what Z did. Now she goes on a mission to put things back in order, so that her son Henry can exist again. She learns magic- maybe Rumple teaches her. Emma figures out a way to go back to the moment of the Twister.
Emma is the hooded figure we saw in the ep “Its not easy being green” She steals baby Z from Cora and Henry and puts her in the path of the twister. The Snowing baby, who by then is also in the twister, Emma can now save and take out of the twisters path (may I just put a little ref here to a nother thread. Remember Z’s juice? https://oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/fun-things-about-zelenas-juice-for-snow/ )
This baby Emma takes with her and places in the house of Cora and Henry- She places a disguising spell on the baby, so that Cora and Henry won’t notice the change and the baby will gradually grow into her own look. The baby grows up as Regina. The Regina that Z was really supposed to have been.
This is how the whole story that we have seen from season one happened.
[adrotate group="5"]Questions- (this is sooooooo why I hate shows going into time travel lol)
1) Whats the point of Z creating a AU? As that would mean Z doesnt get what she wants anyway- she seems to umm… unstable to want another version of her self to get what she wants to be hers now? + we’d then have 2 of everyone- reality versions & AR versions all existing at the same time.
2) So who would raise baby Z? Snowings child replacing babyZ, doesnt = baby Z being raised by Cora, as Z was born before Cora married into royalty- thats why Cora gave her up….
3) If Z took his brains in the old reality- why would he be brainless in the new reality? There’d be 2 versions of Rumple, the one who’d already had his brains taken & the one AU one that hadn’t… (cause & effect has to come into play- the cause has to happen Before the effect)
4) I thought part of why Z is doing what she’s doing is for Rumples love? & again cause & effect for Charming- the cause (taking courage) has to happen before the effect (becomes cowardly). If AU Charming hasnt had his courage stolen (it’s still intact), why would the courage Z has affect him?
5) If its a AU, why would new Emma, know what reality Emma knew? Creating a new reality means you’d have to have 2 versions of everyone (as I mentioned before- they’d be separate & distinct timelines, so what happens in one, wont effect the other), meaning all the causes happening in real time now, would have no effect in the new AU, as the causes have yet to happen to those AU versions of our characters. The only way around it, is to have Z going back & causing changes to her own reality- so that she herself, along with everyone & thing in our/this current reality, will be effected by those changes, which in turn means it is actually vitally important that the current/our reality characters try to stop her, as she will be changing them.
Personally I wouldn’t care if she went back in time & created a AU (whole new version of events), as how does that effect our reality & the characters we already care about now? It doesnt, it only effects the people in the new AU she creates- in this reality Z will simply be ‘gone’ out of the time line into the past & therefore be out of our hair (since all her meddling will just create a new AU), but Charming, Regina & Rumple will be minus their bit’s 😉
6) If people remember their previous selves (before time tampering happened)- why wouldnt they remember it after time had been tampered with- ie. Hook would already know Emma, Emma would already know Hook, Snowing would know Hook & he them, Hook would also know what Regina & Cora become later on, so why work for them? the list goes on & on & gets very messy/ gaping plot hole territory :/
Not saying what you are proposing cant or couldnt happen, just they’d have to have hard & fast ‘rules’ of cause & effect/ AU (new separate & distinct version of events with whole new set of characters as the out come) vs altered reality (only one timeline which can be altered & therefore affects our current characters/universe).
I just dont see the point in time travel if the stakes are not high for our actual characters & this timeline.
Questions- (this is sooooooo why I hate shows going into time travel lol)
Yea thanks for comment 🙂 *diving in–>*
1) Whats the point of Z creating a AU? As that would mean Z doesnt get what she wants anyway- she seems to umm… unstable to want another version of her self to get what she wants to be hers now? + we’d then have 2 of everyone- reality versions & AR versions all existing at the same time.
What she wants is the life she feels she was suppossed to have, which Regina got instead of her. And that is what she would get in this AU. We wouldnt have two versions of everyone because as soon as Z is the baby that grows up with Cora and Henry and Regina is the baby that goes to Oz the reality would be the different one and the characters as we know them would be erased and instead be the other version of themselves.
2) So who would raise baby Z? Snowings child replacing babyZ, doesnt = baby Z being raised by Cora, as Z was born before Cora married into royalty- thats why Cora gave her up….
In this version Cora never gave up Z. Emma was the one that took her ( this is the time Paradox thing: Because Emma travelled back in time to reset Things as they were, but how did Emma get there in the first place if Z never created the AU before??? -TIMEPARADOX wobly wobly mind!! 😛 but thats what is cool about it) And in the time of the AU, when Z puts the Snowing baby in the twister, Z is still back in her cradle in the Cora/Henry home.
3) If Z took his brains in the old reality- why would he be brainless in the new reality? There’d be 2 versions of Rumple, the one who’d already had his brains taken & the one AU one that hadn’t… (cause & effect has to come into play- the cause has to happen Before the effect)
Not two versions just the new version of Rumple. How would he be brainless- thats a tough one. I think when the twister magic hits ground in new AU that is when somehow Z makes sure brain and courage is sucked away from them. She takes Reginas Heart as she believes that will then make her not exist in AU. Z doesnt know the baby she sends to Oz is really Regina.
4) I thought part of why Z is doing what she’s doing is for Rumples love? & again cause & effect for Charming- the cause (taking courage) has to happen before the effect (becomes cowardly). If AU Charming hasnt had his courage stolen (it’s still intact), why would the courage Z has affect him?
Again the new versions of the characters are the only ones existing, not two versions at the same time.
5) If its a AU, why would new Emma, know what reality Emma knew? Creating a new reality means you’d have to have 2 versions of everyone (as I mentioned before- they’d be separate & distinct timelines, so what happens in one, wont effect the other), meaning all the causes happening in real time now, would have no effect in the new AU, as the causes have yet to happen to those AU versions of our characters. The only way around it, is to have Z going back & causing changes to her own reality- so that she herself, along with everyone & thing in our/this current reality, will be effected by those changes, which in turn means it is actually vitally important that the current/our reality characters try to stop her, as she will be changing them.
Okay maybe we have a different understanding of Alternate Universe/Reality. I mean that Z creates a nother reality and erases the one we have seen on the show up till now. Emma, being the savior, somehow uptains the knowledge of the Old Reality, maybe for some reason she will be able to remember.
6) If people remember their previous selves (before time tampering happened)- why wouldnt they remember it after time had been tampered with- ie. Hook would already know Emma, Emma would already know Hook, Snowing would know Hook & he them, Hook would also know what Regina & Cora become later on, so why work for them? the list goes on & on & gets very messy/ gaping plot hole territory :/
They wouldnt know eachother.. everything from the time of Z’s birth would be different. EVERYTHING from the moment of the twister is erased.
Not saying what you are proposing cant or couldnt happen, just they’d have to have hard & fast ‘rules’ of cause & effect/ AU (new separate & distinct version of events with whole new set of characters as the out come) vs altered reality (only one timeline which can be altered & therefore affects our current characters/universe).
I just dont see the point in time travel if the stakes are not high for our actual characters & this timeline.
The stakes would be high, because our current characters wouldnt exist the way we know them
Is there an “Alternate Universe Time Loop For Dummies” book?
This is confusing, and hurts my brain.LOL- I know what you mean…. I will let my geek out & define the temporal paradoxes of time travel as I know them 😉
- Causality (Cause comes before effect- ie. In the flow of time, the effect (Emma) would exist before the cause (her birth).
- The grandfather paradox (You change the past but you’ll instantly feel the alteration, as will your ancestors & descendants. Ie. If your past self dies, your future self will die, as will all your decedents, along with your bio family changing- since you are no longer in it).
- Consistent causal loop (You can travel back, but you always did, so nothing changes. Ie. Any changes you make, you have already made, so the future doesnt change).
- Distorted probability (You can travel back but you can’t change anything, no matter how hard you try. Ie. you try to shoot someone, but the gun wont fire or you trip/ are pushed etc & the end result is you fail every-time you try).
- Parallel universe (You can change the past, but you’ll just create a brand new timeline/AU. Ie. You kill ‘someone’, but it doesnt change your own future, it only creates a ‘new’ future where that ‘someone’ is now dead).
The only way I can see there being any point to time travel having any meaning for our characters is if they go with the grandfather paradox- so the characters we have now, travel back to try stop Z from changing the reality we have now.
Okay maybe we have a different understanding of Alternate Universe/Reality. I mean that Z creates a nother reality and erases the one we have seen on the show up till now. Emma, being the savior, somehow uptains the knowledge of the Old Reality, maybe for some reason she will be able to remember.
But Emma wasnt born until much later than Regina & Z so why would she have anything to do with anything?
Edited to add, saw the rest of your replies after this- for some reason they all came up jumbled into one big quote when I 1st saw it o.O
So got you on this one now. Emma travels back in time.
What she wants is the life she feels she was suppossed to have, which Regina got instead of her. And that is what she would get in this AU. We wouldnt have two versions of everyone because as soon as Z is the baby that grows up with Cora and Henry and Regina is the baby that goes to Oz the reality would be the different one and the characters as we know them would be erased and instead be the other version of themselves.
But Z is older than Regina, so how would you take that into account in switching them?
- Consistent causal loop (You can travel back, but you always did, so nothing changes. Ie. Any changes you make, you have already made, so the future doesnt change).
The only way I can see there being any point to time travel having any meaning for our characters is if they go with the grandfather paradox- so the characters we have now, travel back to try stop Z from changing the reality we have now.
Yes well that is exactly what would happen in the time-loop thingy I proposed. Z tries to change her past and her fate and ends up actually creating the exact history as it happened. She created the Twister, she ended up in!!!!
- Consistent causal loop (You can travel back, but you always did, so nothing changes. Ie. Any changes you make, you have already made, so the future doesnt change).
The only way I can see there being any point to time travel having any meaning for our characters is if they go with the grandfather paradox- so the characters we have now, travel back to try stop Z from changing the reality we have now.
Yes well that is exactly what would happen in the time-loop thingy I proposed. Z tries to change her past and her fate and ends up actually creating the exact history as it happened. She created the Twister, she ended up in!!!!
Yeah, I understand what you where saying now- I took AU, as just that- a distinct & separate reality from the current one, I think you meant altered reality, where we have the one reality that can altered from it’s current state, but not split into distinct alternate realities/universes.
woauw! Surayya.. many questions, but I loves it 😉
But Emma wasnt born until much later than Regina & Z so why would she have anything to do with anything?
This is where I would have to use the she is the savior reason. I dont know how but for some reason Emma will either remember or learn what Z did and that Old Reality once existed, so that she will have to put Things back in order- she will want to get back to the reality in which Henry exists. Maybe it is something to do with the Hook Kiss? We also see him in AU, so they might be working together on getting thhings back in order. If Hook and Emma tricks Z into thinking, Hook has kissed Emma and stolen her magic (in This current reality) Z will start AU thinking Emma will not be able to hurt her, but because Emma didnt kiss Hook and still has her magic- this will enable her to remember “Old Reality”.
But Z is older than Regina, so how would you take that into account in switching them?
If Snowing baby is Regina and Z takes her and sends her back in time via twister to the time of her own baby-Hood, they would be the same age.
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