Alice spotted in Skin Deep

RumplesGirl wrote:

nealfanforever wrote:

After watching Enter the Dragon I rewatched Skin Deep……look who I found at The Rabbit Hole! Alice or her perfect doppelganger! Curioser and Curioser! The camera stays on her for quite a while.

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Well, first. That’s not Sophie Lowe. Second, WL hadn’t even been thought up in the minds of Adam and Eddy and so it wasn’t consciously done if some 100/day extra looks like someone they cast two years later for a totally different show. And third, the camera isn’t on her. It’s on Snow and Ashley. Hence why they are the focus.

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I tweeted Jane Espenson and she answered and said “It sure looks like her.” If you go back and watch the scene it shows much more than the photo…the scene is quite extended with her speaking, laughing….etc.  I think we may find that something changed in the timeline and this was purposeful. We do know that Wonderland was going to be part of the story (whether or not it got its own spin-off) because we see the Alice in Wonderland page of the book in the pilot episode.  They could have had their Alice picked out from the beginning. We also have a big shift in the way the interior of the rabbit hole looks surrounding the table where the girls are siting and, it is called The Rabbit Hole, which is a direct reference to Alice in Wonderland.  I think if you will watch the scene you will see what I am talking about.

This episode also has scenes in the Dark Star Pharmacy.  The first scene there is obvious snow falling outside the windows. The second scene the snow has stopped.  It reminds me of “It’s a Wonderful Life.”

(another picture)

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nealfanforever wrote:

weeted Jane Espenson and she said “It sure looks like her.” If you go back and watch the scene it shows much more than the photo. I think we may find that something changed in the timeline and this was purposefu

That literally means nothing. People look like other people all the time. Alice wasn’t even a thought in their head at this point except that she was probably Grace’s mother and Jefferson’s wife but then that idea got lost when they lost Seb. When WL became an idea for them they created Alice from scratch as someone who has never been to SB, someone who spent the entirety of the curse years in an asylum. All Jane is doing is acknowledging that this random extra bears a somewhat resemblance to actress Sophie Lowe. Seriously, this literally means nothing

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I appreciate the discussion RumplesGirl.  You brought up some good points so I’ve done some digging.

First, I should say that I’ve been keeping an eye out for surprise background characters ever since I heard Zelena say this to Mary Margaret in Witch Hunt, “You were a princess,and some of us were just supporting players.”  At the time I found the comment interesting and a possible hint to keep an eye on the OUaT extras.  Now that we know magical people have been in Storybrooke before the first curse was broken…ie the Snow Queen and we have learned that having your heart outside your body protects you from the curse (which means Cora was probably not frozen those 28 years) and we know Zelena had the silver slippers which means she could come and go at will….well…who knows who we have seen sitting at Granny’s or in a Town Hall meeting.  Zelena could have been trolling around as anyone…so could the Snow Queen and maybe even Cora.

But back to Sophie Lowe being spotted in The Rabbit Hole during Skin Deep… here are some of the things I have found. 

1.  Others have suggested we may see characters in the background.

Ironically, on a different Once podcast archive these comments were made right after Season 1 – Skin Deep aired on February 12, 2012.

onceuponatimepodcast.com

Responses to OUAT – We know the name of the bar where Sean proposed to Ashley.

obisgirl says: February 17, 2012 at 6:13 am-

The Rabbit Hole? really? that’s the real name of it. you know what that reminds me of though, right? Alice following the rabbit that lead her the hold, where she fell in which took her to Wonderland.

Manny says: February 17, 2912 at 3:55pm

I’m sure that’s what was intended! If so… keep your eyes out for those we may have pegged as “AIW” (Alice in Wonderland) characters, ie; Alicia from Granny’s….or Mr. “K” as (mabybe the MadHatter?) walking around in the background!!…

Sure enough…watching the clip of Girls Night Out…not only does she look like Sophie Lowe’s Alice…her mannerisms are spot on.  Of course we could have someone else, who may have brought magic with them, and  glamorized themself to look like Alice.

2.  Sophie Lowe announced April 2, 2013 

Sophie Lowe was announced as Alice on April 2, 2013, which is a little less than fourteen months after the Skin Deep episode aired.

2. The Mystery “Plot” Hole that showed up after the wraith at the beginning of season two.

I do believe the writers knew they were going to expand the Alice story because of the big huge hole in the street that showed up in Storybrooke  in the early fall of 2012.  They never explained the hole…we all assumed it was damage from the wraith.  Later in the episode where Alice and Cyrus go to Storeybrooke, they create a similar hole, so I feel confident the writers knew what they wanted to do for quite  sometime before the announcement of Sophie Lowe on April 2, 2013.

3.At the San Diego Comic Con July 2013 Kitsis and Horowitz were asked how and when they decided to do the spinoff.

“Kitsis/Horowitz: A long tine gestating. Initially approached to do the spin-off after the first season but didn’t have a fully-realized idea.  Loved going to Wonderland and felt there was a big story for Alice, but not enough room in Once for her.  For fans of Once or newcomers to either show.

4.  Interview with  Fan TV – October 10, 2013

Fan Voice: What were the differences in developing Once Upon a Time in Wonderland than when you were developing the original Once?

Edward Kitsis:  The difference is that Wonderland was an idea that came out of Once because we had all these Alice stories but we felt like there was no room for them in Once. So when we went to pitch it, we were like, “Here” and we already had a template that they understood.  For Once Upon a Time, we basically came in and said, “What if the evil queen cast a curse and brought them all to this world and it was up to the daughter?”  They were learning the show and for this one (Wonderland) we had the benefit of things learned from Once and really just two years of this idea sitting in our head. 

5. Michael Socha interview with Young Hollywod

When Michael Socha was asked this question his response is interesting when it comes to Sophie Lowe.

YH:  Did you study any of the other versions of the Knave of Hearts prior to playing this one?

MS: “With the Knave of Hearts, I watched the Johnny Depp one, Alice in Wonderland and read a little bit about his character in the actual book, Alice in Wonderland.  Sophie Lowe, who is playing Alice, has already got a little bit of history. Naveen Andrews, who plays Jafar, also has Aladdin to reference.  I think I’m a bit lucky because I get to make my own version of him.  He hasn’t really been invaded yet.  [chuckles] I’m lucky.  I get to create my own version of him.  It’s amazing.”

I feel comfortable that nothing contradicts the possibility of Alice being spotted in the background…or someone posing as Alice.  I’ve said in other threads that I believe we are going to find out the timeline has been altered and the alterations show up in season one before Snow Falls.  This could account for Alice being there…or there could be another explanation.

Speaking of Snow Falls….if you will go back and look at the original episode, inside the coach…at the covering of the cushions..also looking at the pouch with the ring…as well as the soldiers on the horses and then compare it to when Emma and Hook travel back in time you will see that something has changed.  It appears to have changed before Emma ever messed up the history with her snapping broken branch, of course, stealing the clothes off the clothesline could have enacted the butterfly effect and  changed everything.

Kitsis and Horowitz made a big deal about how difficult it was to film and splice everything together seamlessly.  The BIG interesting tell that there something has happened is that they changed things that did not have to be shot again…did not have to be filmed new or spliced in.

– For example, the carriage approaching…they could have used the same shot but they shot it again and in one the driver has a beard and in the other the driver does not, also the capes are a different length.

– The interior of the coach…the cushion David is sitting on is old in one and brand new in the Emma timeline.

–  The pouch is set down in different places.

These are shots that they did not have to film again but they did.  I think something happened to alter the timeline and it is possible it could have occurred before Season 1 and we have not seen that “something” yet.  I think when Emma went back she either changed it or “landed” before the “something” happened.  I think that this has yet to unfold and will put a new spin on everything.

I could be wrong, but so many things point to it happening… including finding Alice at the Rabbit Hold.  When Jafar broke the laws of magic, someone else could have gone back in time and we have not learned about it yet. Who knows what could have happened when he broke those laws.  Whatever it is…I believe they have had it planned from the beginning.