Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Five › 5×17 “Her Handsome Hero” › Growth and Decay
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April 10, 2016 at 9:06 pm #321254RumplesGirlKeymaster
Life is finally springing to life in the Underworld because souls have hope. Yet Hades seems intent to squash it, to keep it in a state of decay so that he and Zelena can rule it together. Does anyone else see a bit of a contradiction: doesn’t true love come with a promise of hope (at least on this show?) So shouldn’t Hades, falling in love and HOPING for a future with Zelena, sorta…grow the Underworld alongside the souls hoping for release from the Underworld?
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 11, 2016 at 2:12 pm #321299thedarkonedearieParticipantLife is finally springing to life in the Underworld because souls have hope. Yet Hades seems intent to squash it, to keep it in a state of decay so that he and Zelena can rule it together. Does anyone else see a bit of a contradiction: doesn’t true love come with a promise of hope (at least on this show?) So shouldn’t Hades, falling in love and HOPING for a future with Zelena, sorta…grow the Underworld alongside the souls hoping for release from the Underworld?
This is sort of why I don’t trust him with Zelena. He still wants his power. So he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. But it doesn’t seem he can have Zelena (hope) and still keep the UW in a decaying sort of state. He’s gonna have to choose and unfortunately I can’t help but think his revenge on Zeus and wanting to switch places with him, will outweigh anything else. But maybe not.
April 11, 2016 at 5:22 pm #321327mousearsParticipantIt is definitely a conundrum. Originally, I believe that Hades’ true purpose was to help the souls cross over to either the better or the worst place. Over the centuries, he realized that the more souls stayed and found themselves without hope, the more powerful he became. When he was semi-stalking Zelena, he found in her a kindred “soul” – someone as terribly wicked as he was and someone who also felt the stigma of being “wronged” by their sibling. His initial game plan was to use/trick her. But I believe he actually fell in love with her, unfortunately, having no heart and being corrupted by malicious power he is incapable of understanding what “true love” is. He thinks of it as a means to an end to complete his vengeance against his brother. He wants to rule Underbrooke with Zelena, but also, he wants to replace Zeus & Hera and rule Olympus – hence the need for a baby to perform the time traveling spell, after he receives TLK from Zelena causing his heart to beat. I’m betting a 100 cookies, that the TLK will indeed make his heart work, but the affect it will have on him will not be what he expected.
April 11, 2016 at 5:44 pm #321332RumplesGirlKeymasterI’m betting a 100 cookies, that the TLK will indeed make his heart work, but the affect it will have on him will not be what he expected.
I’m sort of expecting that the TLK will cause Hades to change his mind about revenge on Zeus. The problem is, then, if that happens (Hades’s mind is changed) then is he not defeated? Does he just rule the Underworld as a benevolent overlord, letting souls move on once they complete their business? What does that mean for the ‘ship, Zades? Is Zelena gonna go full on Persephone and visit every few months??
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"April 12, 2016 at 10:28 am #321368GloriaDrewThisParticipantI think it’s an interesting twist on the persephone story that Zelena and Hades’ relationship effects on growth, specifically nature-related growth… only obviously instead of their story affecting the mortals within the own seasonal sphere of existence, the life vs decay consequences are intrinsic to the underworld itself (and just bringing the mortals along for the ride).
April 14, 2016 at 10:50 am #321479SlurpeezParticipantHades’ own hope over a future with Zelena might be causing the flowers to spring forth, but he doesn’t want to admit it to himself. Maybe his own hope of a life with her will free him of his curse and will be the UW’s undoing. Hades and Zelena’s TLK will probably be what allows Emma et al to return to SB.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
April 14, 2016 at 4:40 pm #321486nevermoreParticipantI think there is going to be a twist of some sort — there is obviously a connection between the frozen heart, the souls’ entrapment in UW, and the need for hopelessness. But so far, I have no idea how to put it all together. I can see how trapped souls might be powering the UW, and hopelessness prevents them from moving on. But wouldn’t the simple solution be to plop them all down into the River of Lost Souls (or whatever it’s called), and just call it a day? Trapped for all eternity, and voila, problem solved. No person, no problem. Or is Hades not able to do that? In the case of Hook, he didn’t seem to have any problem dunking him (outsourced to some sort of crane, but still). In the case of Gaston vs Rumple, he was setting up Gaston or Rumple to do it. But again, if he wanted a particular outcome, why not do it himself? I get it that he probably can’t drop a living person in the water of doom – some kind of limitation on his powers – so my only explanation was that he was really banking on Gaston getting the best of Rumple, but would have been satisfied with the opposite outcome because it fulfilled another function. I’m guessing in this case that quantity of souls in river of doom is in direct correlation with amount of general hopelessness in UW.
On the other hand, what would restarting his heart do, pragmatically, for Hades and UW? Clearly, Hades isn’t trapped in UW, but I wonder if his stopped heart is something that limits his powers? On the other hand, I wonder if a stopped heart might connect to immortality? What if Zeus was actually doing him a favor?
April 15, 2016 at 9:43 am #321504Marty McFlyParticipantZelena thrives on futility and hopelessness. to her, breaking people’s will is “entertainment”. therefore, Z’s and H’s love will grow “hopelessness” flowers etc.
April 16, 2016 at 2:21 am #321551BelleOfTheBallParticipantSo this whole growth and decay thing has me very confused and I would love some help understanding. In the previous episode, Hades said something along the lines of “despite my best efforts I cannot get anything to grow here. Things only decay here”. In this episode, however, Hades finds a flower growing and is determined to make it decay. This seems a bit backwards to me as his statement from last week seems almost ashamed or disappointed that things can only decay in his world; yet when flowers begin to grow there he must stop the “hope”.
It just doesn’t add up for me. I don’t understand Hades, his goal, or his motivations. Any insight would be much appreciated!
April 16, 2016 at 8:32 am #321554RumplesGirlKeymasterI think Hades is okay with the decay. My running assumption is that at first, when he changed the Underworld to look like SB, he wanted it to be a literal carbon copy–the small town feel and charm, brimming with all the quaintness we saw in S1. But it didn’t work that way because it’s still the Underworld AND, moreover, Hades wasn’t willing to let the souls move on because they feed his power/ego. He can’t have his cake and eat it too: either he can keep the souls trapped in Underbrooke (but not have it look like the one above ground) OR he can have Underbrook look like the one above ground (but not keep any of the souls tethered to it).
I guess, in the end, we’re supposed to read that Hades is choosing his power/ego over giving Zelena a true Underbrooke.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love" -
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