Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Character discussion › Favourite legitimate couples › Re: Favourite legitimate couples
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
At this very moment I don’t see how either guy could easily be just friends with Emma to be honest. Neal made a go of it when he was with Tamara for Henry’s sake (and they got along great which gives me hope they can have a relationship of *any* kind down the line because HENRY was their focus) but the feelings were obviously still there (though the fact that they were still there and they were able to get past it enough for Henry is encouraging should he end up on the outside – though I do hope if he does he finds love as well and I think whoever is left will and they will be better suited for that person. As I said earlier, sure Rumple & Milah breaking had a massive affect on things, but they were not suited for each other at all. Rumple found his true love in Belle so I have hope for whoever gets left behind.)
On the flip side Hook & Emma have this connection and when she’s in a room she is literally all he looks at. If you go back and watch the finale he barely talks to anyone else and is constantly drawn to her. When he came back, he offered HER everything and then dealt with everyone. When a group saw the ship coming back, they focused on HER reaction.
Whether they can be friends down the line I just don’t know. I’m sure he’ll be just as confused as anyone when Neal returns even though he’s been drawn to Emma from the start (he seriously lights up when she’s around and it’s like nobody else even exists)
Here’s where personal interpretation comes into it, because IMO, I don’t see Hook’s attraction to her being romantic as of yet. I do think, “She could get it,” has crossed his mind, in fact, it’s probably the first thing about her that crossed his mind, because she’s hot and feisty and that’s how he likes his women. 😉 I do think that he feels a sense of kinship with her, because the more he’s learned about her, the more he’s realised they have similarities and she’s someone he can relate to, (a rare thing for him). But I don’t personally see him having seriously considered, “I’m falling in love with this woman,” (as of yet). Obviously others interpret it differently, and that’s fine, this is just my personal perspective.
If she’s the one he primarily looks at and speaks to, IMO that’s down to the fact that she’s the only one who is remotely interested in talking to or listening to him, so naturally, she’s the one he has to address if he wants to be heard at all by the group as a whole. If they see Emma actually relating to him and considering his words, well they might not trust him, but they do trust Emma, so at least he gets to be heard through her.
Where Nealfire is concerned though, those romantic notions unquestionably exist. Even if you don’t see it in present day, there’s no denying that SF have been in that deeply romantic place in the past. So if we’re talking about either of the guys finding it easy to be just friends with Emma, IMO Hook is totally capable of that at this point in time, but Nealfire, not so much.
Conversely, we haven’t gotten to see much of Neal & Regina but I’ve felt since Tallahassee that they seem like they would be more kindred spirits and want similar things.
I can sort of see where some of the arguments for FireQueen come from, but at the end of the day, I feel so much sympathy and empathy for Nealfire, and I’ve so very rarely felt those things for Regina, that basically, I think he could do better than her. I do hope Regina continues to grow though, and eventually become someone I can genuinely like.
Neal has shown that he can love Emma but still pay attention to someone else.
Pay attention to someone else, yes. Be completely, unquestionably committed to that someone else? I’d say no.
However, I believe those issues will come to the surface when Neal sees Hook again, especially if Emma tells him to play nice because even if she’s NOT choosing to be with Hook, she’s still choosing to defend him and let him be a part of her / their lives and that will probably feel like a slap in the face to Neal. It will be compounded by the fact that Emma may still be upset with and not forgive him for various things right away, but is defending a man that he has major issues with. Even as just friends all of that would hurt & cause all kinds of drama.
All of this is why I think there’s already enough stuff to make a deeply emotional and compelling storyline without them having to go the full blown love triangle by having an actual, committed romance between CS. It’s still essentially a triangle if all three of them are involved in trying to sort out this highly complicated emotional situation of SF romance trying to coexist with CS friendship, which will force CF to sort out their issues.
No way is she ever leaving Henry though and now we’ve seen that Hook likes children and wants to be a part of a family. (Honestly there was never any doubt in my mind after Tallahassee because of how he spoke of the lost boys but I know for some it took a long time to get to that point and they were pleasantly surprised with how cute the Hook teaching Bae to drive the ship scene was). So hopefully even if he’s just hovering in Emma’s circle we’ll at least get to see him become friends with Henry and I think Henry would like being friends with a pirate.
On the surface of it, yes, I’d expect any boy Henry’s age to think it’s super cool to be friends with a pirate. However, we’ve already seen that Henry’s greatest wish is for his parents to be back together, so if Hook is standing in the way of that, I don’t see Henry wanting to be friends with him.
I’m not saying that that is automatically the deciding factor in who ends up with who, because as I’ve previously stated, SF shouldn’t just be together for Henry’s sake, I’m just saying that Hook hovering around could be perceived by Henry as a threat to his happy ending. I would absolutely expect Hook to want to have some positive emotional connection to Henry though, because that kid is Bae’s blood, and Milah’s blood.
On the flip side, so far, Hook is all about Emma. Stupid innuendos aside,
Hey now, don’t be belittling Hook innuendos. Maybe it’s just because I’d quite like to be on the receiving end, but I’ve got nothing against some Hook innuendos. 😉 (I know many people think it’s gross, but I say bring it.)
the only person he drops his facade for and has real conversations with is her. She’s all he sees in a crowded room and they get one another. Whether she chooses him or not isn’t the issue, I’m merely pointing out that right now, if Hook is interested in anyone, it’s her and I don’t see him that way with anyone else on the show that we’ve seen so far. It’s not impossible and since I love him so much I want him to have an epic romance with whoever. But contrary to some things I’ve seen/read, he really does treat Emma differently.
Yes, he does, because she’s the only one who has been in the position to give him a chance. Everyone else has used him to their own advantage, and he’s done the same to everyone in return, so that’s all well and good, you reap what you sow. Emma’s the only person he’s had the chance to get beyond that with. It hasn’t all been smooth sailing and complete honesty between them, but unlike with the rest, he has had the opportunity to actually relate to her on a personal level. Some read “romance” into that, others don’t.
Also, he had already handed over the empty pouch and was just left to just stare into space after she walked out. She wouldn’t tell anybody details about who Henry’s dad was and never made any effort to let anybody in but he asked and she answered without hesitating when it’s technically none of his business.
To be fair though, by that point, the secret about the identity of Henry’s father wasn’t a secret any more, the whole freaking town knew, so revealing that info to Hook in particular wasn’t that big of a deal for her to do IMO.
If anybody else, especially anyone who had previously betrayed them had handed that pouch over, Emma would have checked it to be sure. When it’s something THAT important, she would have checked but she TRUSTED him. She was gutted when she opened it and it was empty.
People being slapped in the face seems to be a recurring theme, no matter the ship.
She questioned it when he came back and his explanation was directed at her. As I said previously the bean is their symbol (whether it’s friendship or more) and he handed that back to her. She didn’t have to hand it to him to throw into the water. She could have thought “Neverland” to herself and tossed it. She showed him she was trusting him with the most important thing in her life, just as he was trusting her by handing it back to begin with.
I can see how CS shippers would have read more into that action, so can’t say that interpretation is invalid. From my perspective, Emma doesn’t know how to use a bean, and as far as she knows, Hook is the only one out of all of them who has ever been to NL before, and the vessel they’re on belongs to him, so it just made sense that he was the one who tossed the bean.
Love it or hate it they do have something and it clearly affects her / gets to her just as much as her jealousy was coming out with the Neal/Tamara situation. They made a point of showing us her face when Hook came back. He’s given her hope and that’s something she hasn’t had a lot of in a long time.
Agreed, without him having come back with his boat and the bean, they’d have no hope of immediately following Henry, and that is undoubtedly something the Emma will be grateful to Hook for.
I’m definitely expecting a confrontation between Neal & Hook regardless, and I hope it doesn’t start out as a “you destroyed my family once I won’t let you take Emma” kind of thing because in this case Neal is in the wrong. Tamara tried to kill everyone and took Henry and Hook is doing everything he can, including getting along with his worst enemy, to save him. Emma has every right to defend that and I fully expect her to. Perhaps it will end up a good starting point for the CaptainFire bromance to rekindle.
I think it would be an entirely believable initial reaction to the situation. That’s not to say that he wouldn’t move past it, but put yourself in Nealfire’s shoes. You declare your love for Emma, then fall down a portal, seriously injured and verging on death…you manage to survive your injuries, but you’re in a world there’s no easy way out of…so you search and struggle and pray for a way to get out, to get back to Emma, the woman you love, and who had confessed she shares that love the last time you saw her…and against all odds, you do make it out, you do manage to get back to where she is…and she’s falling for the same guy who took your mother away from you. Kick in the guts much?! I wouldn’t blame Nealfire in the slightest if his initial reaction is to punch Hook square in the face.
I loved the scenes of Hook with young Bae and I want them to get along I really do – I just hope that doesn’t only hinge on Hook letting Neal have Emma. I would hate to see that as one of the things I love about Hook IS his quote of “A man unwilling to fight for what he wants deserves what he gets” and that would greatly undermine that for me, especially if there’s a lot of build up for him obviously caring for Emma.
I posted about that quote in the SF thread recently. I can totally see why CS shippers would consider it hypocritical if he just gave up on Emma if she’s what he wants. My point though was basically, what does Hook want most of all now? Back in the day when he said it, that scene related specifically to a woman that both he and Rumple wanted. The finale shows him dedicating himself to a new goal, to not be as selfish as he has been in the past. And what is he using as prime motivation for that?
Hook: It’s not too late to start over. I can change Bae…for you.
Bae: You say that, but I know you’ll never change. Because all you care about, is yourself.
*Cue me wanting to dive into the screen and give Hook a hug, because his expression is, just, URGH, his heart just totally broke.*
That flashback is immediately after we see Hook sailing away from SB, and immediately after that flashback we go back to the boat in present day, and Hook changing his mind, deciding to not be selfish this time. So, this is his new goal, this is his new “fight”, to prove Bae’s statement wrong, to prove to himself and everyone else that he can be unselfish.
So if he’s presented with the situation where he’s been attracted to Emma, and that’s crushing Nealfire, I’d like to see Hook at least consider what exactly it is he feels for her. Now, if he concludes that he does genuinely, with all his heart, truly want to be in a relationship with Emma, then yes, I’d expect him to “fight” for her. But if he’s unsure as to his commitment being 100%, the right thing for him to do would be to step aside to at least let SF work their stuff out. Actually, even if he does want a relationship with Emma, he’d hopefully realise that SF have oodles of stuff to sort out before she can properly commit to anyone, so he needs to give her time and space no matter what he may personally desire right now.
“A man unwilling to fight for what he wants deserves what he gets.” So if he chooses to take the easy option and not fight against his ingrained selfishness, he gets a girlfriend with unresolved baggage with her ex who can’t truly commit to him.
His taking the time to consider these things is his new “fight” to be a better man, which is his new #1 goal in life. So I wouldn’t find him hypocritical at all if he stepped back from Emma. If anything, I guess I’d consider him hypocritical if he doesn’t step back from Emma.
However, the bean has always been the symbol of the CS relationship (whatever it is, romantic, friendship, literally whatever, that has been their symbol). He told her the one that was dried up reminded him of her because it was once full of hope and is now all shriveled and he was done with her (he was hurt, forced to work with Cora again, and Emma had betrayed him – he was lying in that moment just as much as anytime Emma pretended to be over Neal). What did he do with that shriveled up bean? He brought it back to life and used it to get to SB.
I confess to never having looked at the bean as symbolic in that way, but can see how that interpretation of it makes sense.
It was the combination of the bean AND the scratch marks that made him turn around. He didn’t say like Rumple did that he was going after Henry to honor Bae. He just turned around. When he showed up Emma said she thought he didn’t care about anybody but himself and he, looking ONLY at her and handing HER the bean said “Maybe I just needed reminding I could” – it was the combination of Emma & Bae, not just for Bae. He could honor him sure but Bae is dead – Hook gets very little from turning around to help a bunch of people that hate him to make a dead guy happy. EMMA is the one who has reached an arm out to him and offered him a chance to be a part of something.
Hook would get plenty out of doing it to honour deadBae if in the end it served to make him a better person. I do agree that Emma’s words are what got the cogs turning in his head, but still believe that he turned the boat around primarily to prove himself to Bae, and to himself.
For every list of reasons (actual rational reasons) I see for one pairing and start buying into it, I see a list equally as compelling for the other. It will be one heck of a triangle BECAUSE there are so many variables. I completely understand why people on both sides see what they see and think what they think and the more I look at it, the more I’m convinced that we all have good reason to hope and it’s infuriating because it means that somebody will get massively hurt by it.
Which is why I like my scenario where at the end of the day, they’re all mature enough about it to end up friends, because I love them all individually and don’t want any of them being hurt, (also, I crackship Hookriel so wouldn’t mind him being made available ;)). It can be infuriating I suppose, but it’s also a sign of good writing that they’ve been able to set both options up the way they have. Keeps things interesting. Keeps the audience guessing about how the love story will end. There aren’t many characters they have the opportunity to do that with.
I do completely agree that Tamara is crafty and knew what she needed to do and was playing him the whole time and did a darn good job of it. No question in my mind about that. He was easily played BECAUSE he was vulnerable. Emma may get that part of it. Doesn’t change the fact that she had to watch it play out from the moment Tamara came to SB. She freaked out that he was bringing her there (partly because she was jealous and hurt but partly to protect SB from outsiders) and he had a FIT because he said he needed her. That’s not something Emma can just forget. He wasn’t worried about protecting the town, he was focused on bonding with Henry and wanted to stay for his son (admirable) and that would have been a great time to end things with Tamara because he just found out about his son and wasn’t committed to staying in NY etc etc, but he chose to bring her to him and TOLD EMMA that he needed her here. He knew that that would mean having a relationship with Tamara IN FRONT OF EMMA and he chose that. Against his deepest wishes sure, but he still chose it and she had to watch their relationship unfold, all the while being untrusted.
If he thought Emma was over him, because she hadn’t come to find him right after the curse broke, and then her constant insistence that she no longer loved him and she didn’t care that he had a fiancee…why would he feel like he couldn’t invite Tamara to town and have Emma be fine with seeing them together?
Moments after they met again for the first time in a decade, she was saying things like she only kept the swan keyring to remind her to never trust again, and no good came from their having been together. Even if he didn’t entirely believe her, her words are all he could react to, (if he so much as looked like he maybe didn’t believe her, she’d just insist on it even more emphatically).
Finding out he has a son, and having to deal with his father again, it was a time of great emotional upheaval for him, and he needed someone to bring some emotional stability for him in the midst of that madness. Emma insisted that she had no interest in being there to support him emotionally. So yes, he needed his fiancee Tamara there instead. And if it hurt Emma to see them together, well, that was her own fault, because she’s the one who kept saying she was fine with him having moved on, and in doing so, she created the environment where he felt justified in inviting Tamara to town. So really, she’s in no position to hold it against him.
Emma has spent a good portion of her life hurt by Neal though and I’m not willing to say anything 100% as to whether forgiving = starting over in a romantic way. It might, it might not.
Emma also has her son because of him. She has her family because of him. And the hurt he caused her forced her to become her independent, headstrong self with ballz of steel, which has served her well, especially in the last year or so.
Somebody pointed out yesterday that Charming always just “knows” that Snow is alright. He never doubts for a second and repeatedly said that Snow was alive because he could feel it. He’d know. We haven’t seen that from Emma yet.
Rumple believed and accepted that Belle was dead, but that doesn’t negate the fact that they undoubtedly have TL. So “not being able to sense the other is alive” isn’t really a contributing factor to proving or debunking TL.
Ship and let ship. Thanks everyone for your kindness & patience (some of you have WAY more than I do!) and reading all of these ridiculously long posts! I know this thread started out in a very different place & sorry for derailing it so much!!
It’s been a worthwhile derailing. 🙂 I do lurk in the CS thread, and obviously don’t agree completely with everything in there, and sometimes have the urge to reply to something, but it’s really not the place for it, because the CS thread is for posting all about pro-CS stuff. I’ve seen posts from yourself in particular saying how you don’t really see that they’ve established a strong basis for SF in present day/future. So even if the long posts have each taken me several hours to read/reply to each time, I figured it was worthwhile putting this side of the argument out there, given that it’s not a thread specific to one ship, and the discussion has been thoughtful and civil on both sides. 🙂