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Rumple usually tells (some beneficial-to-him form of) the truth about the price of magic. That’s why his reaction to Neal’s fate at Zelena’s hands wasn’t “You killed him!” but “You didn’t tell him the price!”
He certainly does mislead people regularly with fine print and loopholes–and keeps a lot of secrets to himself–but he’s generally up front about giving people some kind of choice (though he preys upon the desperate, knowing what choice they’re likely to make) and repeating his catchphrase that magic always comes with a price.
His outright lying about the dagger, Zelena’s death, and using Belle as an alibi is actually somewhat unusual for him; I think that (aside from his love for Belle) is why it bothers him enough to talk to Bae’s grave about it. He knows he’s doing the wrong things this time, whereas usually he feels justified (as he did in The Crocodile when he was confused by what David meant by honesty) because he’s not “lying.” And whatever’s driving him to keep it up must be pretty important to him, because it’s not only going to blow up in his face if (when) Belle realizes it, but it’s now giving his oldest living enemy power over him–and he’s not exactly fighting that by, say, switching the daggers back so Hook has no evidence.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
I like the idea that the ‘cursed’ hand might by psychological rather than an actual curse. Rumple’s planted the idea of the hand bringing out the worst in Hook and perhaps Hook’s still not quite as reformed as he thinks he is. There’s always going to be a little darknss in him.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Yeah….believe me….Regina and Rumple already paid the price for their sins, so I’m not even about to go off into that. But what has Hook paid? And do tell how Rumple publically humiliated Milah….did he leave her and their son for some sword swinging female pirate? Rumple treated Milah with love while he was human…she’s the one who treated him like an animal.
Well, I’ve tried to discuss that stuff, but it’s very difficult to get straight answers (and I don’t just mean you, @WR; I see it a lot both here and elsewhere). I mean, Rumple lost his son and while I don’t necessarily see that as a “price”, I’d say that’s about the worst thing that could’ve happened to him. Regina, on the other hand…well, you know how I feel about her. I’m not sure what “price” you mean with either her or Hook though; I guess for me the price should be feeling and expressing genuine remorse and making amends (where possible) to those you’ve wronged.
Now about Rumple’s treatment of Milah–the public humiliation I was referring to was when he went to the tavern and scolded her in public (like a child) for not taking care of her “responsibilities” (when, as she pointed out, he hadn’t exactly fulfilled his either). He treated her like an object that was broken and not serving its purpose–he expected her to be a good little wife, keep her head down and just stay in the town where she was extremely unhappy. He refused to listen to her pleas to just move, to go somewhere where his mistakes wouldn’t make their lives miserable anymore; they were pariahs where they lived because of his injuring himself to get out of fighting. So did she lash out at him verbally? Yes, we see some of that, because as a woman it’s the only thing she could do.
And in his refusal to remotely consider her pleas, he didn’t treat her like a partner; he treated her like property (also evidenced by the language he constantly uses regarding how Hook “stole” her, like she was some object). We see Milah asking Rumple (yet again) to move right before she left with Hook–this one last refusal to consider her feelings at all was the last straw, so she left with a man who loved her and treated her like an actual person. Rumple may not have physically abused Milah or anything (yet, though of course he murdered her later), but he allowed her no autonomy and refused to acknowledge that she was an individual with her own intrinsic value, treating her like her only worth lay in what she could do for him and his son.
Yeah….believe me….Regina and Rumple already paid the price for their sins, so I’m not even about to go off into that. But what has Hook paid? And do tell how Rumple publically humiliated Milah….did he leave her and their son for some sword swinging female pirate? Rumple treated Milah with love while he was human…she’s the one who treated him like an animal.
I agree. Hook hasn’t really suffered any consequences for his actions.
I’ll admit Hook is my least favorite character in the show, because I find him to be a bit obnoxious, and repulsive (despite the fact actor is incredible good looking) that I now consider him to be cold shower. Normally I would keep my opinions to myself, but I thought admitting this would better benefit a point that I want to make. So if anyone who is a hooker, please don’t dismember or maim me. Since I do think Hook did suffer some pretty nasty consequences as a result of taking Milah. Since Hook got to see someone whom he probably (at the time) considered to be the love of his life die right in front of him. and afterward he got his hand cut off by Rumple. If that wasn’t bad enough he had to spend then next 300 years in island being run by Psycho Peter Pan, and lost boys who probably would get along famously with the kids of Lord of Flies. It was during time period that went from pirate captain to Peter Pan’s errand boy (which we still haven’t seen yet). I can say alot thing about Hook, but that fact there wasn’t any consequences as a result of stealing someone else wife wasn’t one of them.
Besides this one detail, I do agree that Rumple may have killed Milah, he didn’t public humiliate her. While I understand having a husband who ran from battle must be difficult to deal with. I can’t say that I agree with the way she would told him it would have been better if he died, nor do I agree in tell him “You mean like being a man and fighting in the ogre wars? Other wives became honored widows while I became lashed to the village coward. I need a break. Run home, Rumple. It’s what you’re good at.” in public. I would consider that to be a bit more public humiliating, especially if (if being the important word) she does it regularly. Rumple running was natural reaction, and if you don’t believe me I recommend reading The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane. Since that book does deal with the subject pretty well.
Just a fair warning, but claiming that Hook “stole” Milah is a hot button for a lot of people. It’s a fact that Hook didn’t “steal” Milah, as she herself CHOSE to leave Rumple for him. Not only did she chose to leave Rumple for Hook, but she begged Hook to take her with him. It’s a clear difference. Not that cheating on your husband is something I condone, I feel it’s important to make that distinction clear. Milah is equally responsible, if not more responsible for those actions. The honorable thing for her to have done would have been to actually outright tell Rumple that she no longer enjoys their marriage and that she now loves someone else, instead of making it look like she was kidnapped and leaving Rumple behind his back.
Rumple wasn’t right to cut of his hand but neither was Hook right to bully those he thought were weaker than him. Two wrongs don’t make a right. In context though, the reason Rumple cut off his hand wasn’t because he wanted hook to be handless, he cut it off because he thought that was the hand that Hook was holding the magic bean in- the magic bean that would’ve enabled Rumple to travel to a land without magic to find Baelfire. Hook didn’t know it but he was standing between Rumple and his son and that was a dangerous position to be in.
Well, I don’t think he bullied Rumple just because he could; we know that Milah had told him about her husband so he probably didn’t see him as an unfortunate cripple; he saw him as a man who wounded himself to get out of his military obligations and then made his wife pay for his cowardice.
And wanting the bean to get to Bae is no excuse at all–if he’d just followed through on the deal he was making with Milah and Hook (the bean in exchange for just letting them go) he would’ve gotten the bean without having to do or give up anything at all. Then of course he murdered his wife after she hurt his feelings, and he did indeed hack off Hook’s hand purely because he wanted him to hurt him. His exact words were that death “is not in the cards for you, sonny boy! I want you to suffer like I’ve suffered!”
My point was about Hook and how he behaved in that scene. We all know Hook and Rumple are never going to be best buddies, if they want to antagonise each other that’s their choice. However there is an innocent third person in this whole situation and that’s Belle. Rumple’s lies are going to hurt Belle, we know this and RUMPLE knows this hence why he’s trying to keep it secret. Hook, on the other hand is using that as a threat. In my book, that makes HOOK as equally bad, if not more worse than Rumple. Hook doesn’t care about Belle’s feelings at all, he’s using Belle as a bargaining chip. He is using Rumple’s feelings for Belle against him and that has Hook skating very close to season 2 territory IMO. If Hook really cared for Belle as a person, he would either tell her outright or he would keep quiet citing that he made a deal with Rumple to help Elsa in exchange for his silence. Hook should not be threatening to cause emotional distress to Belle the moment that he no longer gets what he wants out of Rumple.
I agree; blackmailing Rumple isn’t the right way to go–however, it’s not like Hook is threatening to harm him or Belle; Rumple could easily put a stop to this whole thing by just telling Belle the truth himself.
It’s also worth noting that Hook hasn’t really asked for anything that would cost Rumple anything. Last week, apparently blackmail was the only way to get Rumple to do the right thing and help with the Snow Queen. And really, he never should’ve cut off Hook’s hand in the first place, to putting it back is also really only returning what he stole.
Also Rumple warned Hook about the hand, even though he could’ve quite easily sent Hook on his way with no warning whatsoever and let him find out about the hand later in the evening, and Hook’s response was to laugh in Rumple’s face and say “I’ve changed, you haven’t”. Rumple at least acknowledged that Hook had changed, Hook could’ve at least extended him the same courtesy because Rumple HAS changed, if he hadn’t, Hook certainly wouldn’t have been in any position to go on a date with Emma because he would’ve either been dead or worse. Hook is playing with fire, it’s inevitable that he’s going to end up getting burned.
Well, I can easily see why Hook doesn’t think Rumple has changed–he’s certainly giving off the vibe that he’d happily kill Hook right then if it weren’t for Belle. Add the lying to Belle and refusal to help with anything, and I’m not surprised that he’s drawn that conclusion. It’s not like Hook has anything to do with that or any control over Rumple’s actions. And as for the hand…well, it’s hard to talk about that without knowing how that’ll play out.
Yeah, Milah made her own choice, and left both her husband and her son to do it–I’m not a great fan of Milah’s, but it was her choice to leave.
However, she’s dead and mostly out of the picture, save for the fact that the two men who loved her (at least at one time) both believe the other is responsible for his losing her. Rumple believes that without Hook, Milah would have stayed with him and Bae (true or not). Hook was there when Rumple killed Milah. The fact that Rumple killed Milah shows that Rumple saw her as being at least as much at fault for her leaving Bae (and him) as Hook–he “only” took Hook’s hand at the time, and then mainly to get the bean. (But he would have happily killed Hook as a substitute. And his saying that Hook took his wife shows that he still ascribes blame to Hook.)
I feel muddled trying to sort through so many perspectives here, because there are three going on plus the various lenses through which we’ve seen the events told to other characters. In the moment, Hook, Milah, and Rumple all believed they were justified in everything they did. Some of those things they later came to regret (Milah apparently did regret leaving Baelfire, for example). Some of those things the men have managed to move past, to some extent–they formally laid aside their feud to save Henry, and right now for some reason the balance of power seems to be keeping each of them more or less in check (also their current girlfriends/wives). (I’d love to see Emma and Belle developing more of a friendship–we’ve seen hints that they are, as they worked together to defeat Zelena, but that would be a fun parallel storyline to the romances they’re playing up this season.)
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Am I the only one who is loving this sneak peek? I think it’s great writting. It shows that Rupmle is a little less sneaky. The old Ruple wouldn’t even consider talking to Hook. He would just kill him or make him forget of something becouse of their past. And I love that Hook must learn the hard way that sometimes you just have to let go. I dosen’t matter if the hand was cursed or not. Hook has to deal with his past sefl and accept that part of him to truly move on. Fantastic character development here. If there weren’t any backslides for both of them, it just would not be realistic at all. It is hard to change your habits not imposible but very, very hard. I think this scene is perfect. I want more interactions between them.
Yeah….believe me….Regina and Rumple already paid the price for their sins, so I’m not even about to go off into that. But what has Hook paid? And do tell how Rumple publically humiliated Milah….did he leave her and their son for some sword swinging female pirate? Rumple treated Milah with love while he was human…she’s the one who treated him like an animal.
Well, I’ve tried to discuss that stuff, but it’s very difficult to get straight answers (and I don’t just mean you, @WR; I see it a lot both here and elsewhere). I mean, Rumple lost his son and while I don’t necessarily see that as a “price”, I’d say that’s about the worst thing that could’ve happened to him. Regina, on the other hand…well, you know how I feel about her. I’m not sure what “price” you mean with either her or Hook though; I guess for me the price should be feeling and expressing genuine remorse and making amends (where possible) to those you’ve wronged. Now about Rumple’s treatment of Milah–the public humiliation I was referring to was when he went to the tavern and scolded her in public (like a child) for not taking care of her “responsibilities” (when, as she pointed out, he hadn’t exactly fulfilled his either). He treated her like an object that was broken and not serving its purpose–he expected her to be a good little wife, keep her head down and just stay in the town where she was extremely unhappy. He refused to listen to her pleas to just move, to go somewhere where his mistakes wouldn’t make their lives miserable anymore; they were pariahs where they lived because of his injuring himself to get out of fighting. So did she lash out at him verbally? Yes, we see some of that, because as a woman it’s the only thing she could do. And in his refusal to remotely consider her pleas, he didn’t treat her like a partner; he treated her like property (also evidenced by the language he constantly uses regarding how Hook “stole” her, like she was some object). We see Milah asking Rumple (yet again) to move right before she left with Hook–this one last refusal to consider her feelings at all was the last straw, so she left with a man who loved her and treated her like an actual person. Rumple may not have physically abused Milah or anything (yet, though of course he murdered her later), but he allowed her no autonomy and refused to acknowledge that she was an individual with her own intrinsic value, treating her like her only worth lay in what she could do for him and his son.
I might love you.
"so there’s this new show….."
"there’s lesbians in it"Am I the only one who is loving this sneak peek? I think it’s great writting. It shows that Rupmle is a little less sneaky. The old Ruple wouldn’t even consider talking to Hook. He would just kill him or make him forget of something becouse of their past. And I love that Hook must learn the hard way that sometimes you just have to let go. I dosen’t matter if the hand was cursed or not. Hook has to deal with his past sefl and accept that part of him to truly move on. Fantastic character development here. If there weren’t any backslides for both of them, it just would not be realistic at all. It is hard to change your habits not imposible but very, very hard. I think this scene is perfect. I want more interactions between them.
I agree. I’m surprised Rumple isn’t more sneaky. I expected him to curse the hand/not to give a warning and then evilly laugh behind Hook’s back when he gets in trouble. It’s very fair of Rumple to warn Hook, given that he dislikes the guy. And yeah, the old Rumple would have turned Hook into a toad. 😉
As for Rumple/Milah situation, I’d just like to point out that the point of those flashbacks was to show that evil isn’t born, it’s made. That before the villains became villains, they were victims. Yeah, maybe Rumple wasn’t a model husband, but he had his issues due to his traumatic childhood experience and being bullied/ostracized by the other villagers (and Milah) because he wasn’t what a man was expected to be. However, he wasn’t a bad guy and didn’t deserve such a horrible treatment. It wasn’t his fault that he became such a timid, weak man he was. If anything, Rumple and Milah were both victims of the harsh, misogynistic society they lived in.
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