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Rumple may not have been the perfect husband from Milah’s perspective, (though I can’t condone how she blatantly disrespected him in such a public way), but no man, especially one who felt stuck and desperate, and who genuinely cared for his family and was trying to do the best with what little they had, deserves to be led to believe that his wife had been kidnapped and gang raped then likely killed, so that he had to go back tell his child that his mother was dead. And if Milah had any knowledge of what Rumple was told, (likely because she was probably below deck and could hear his altercation with Hook), and did nothing to ease his grief over that, then I have no sympathy for her.
[adrotate group="5"]Rumple may not have been the perfect husband from Milah’s perspective, (though I can’t condone how she blatantly disrespected him in such a public way), but no man, especially one who felt stuck and desperate, and who genuinely cared for his family and was trying to do the best with what little they had, deserves to be led to believe that his wife had been kidnapped and gang raped then likely killed, so that he had to go back tell his child that his mother was dead. And if Milah had any knowledge of what Rumple was told, (likely because she was probably below deck and could hear his altercation with Hook), and did nothing to ease his grief over that, then I have no sympathy for her.
I agree. Also Rumple never disrespected Milah publically. He tried to be subtle and encourage her to return home rather than calling her out for leaving her young son unattended at home.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixRumple may not have been the perfect husband from Milah’s perspective, (though I can’t condone how she blatantly disrespected him in such a public way), but no man, especially one who felt stuck and desperate, and who genuinely cared for his family and was trying to do the best with what little they had, deserves to be led to believe that his wife had been kidnapped and gang raped then likely killed, so that he had to go back tell his child that his mother was dead. And if Milah had any knowledge of what Rumple was told, (likely because she was probably below deck and could hear his altercation with Hook), and did nothing to ease his grief over that, then I have no sympathy for her.
I agree. Also Rumple never disrespected Milah publically. He tried to be subtle and encourage her to return home rather than calling her out for leaving her young son unattended at home.
Agreed, Rumple did deserve to be treated with more respect than what Milah was providing. Hook was being a tremendous jerk (honestly this is the only curse word that I could think of to describe him) in wanting to duel a cripple man who has a young kid at home whose has a mother that he is planning to run away. Neigher Milah or Hook was right in treating Rumple this way, and at the same time Rumple was wrong in killing Milah. Since two wrong don’t make a right, but I can’t say that she didn’t have it coming.
Hmm, this turned out to be a longer post than I expected…I’m going to break it up.
Rumple may not have been the perfect husband from Milah’s perspective, (though I can’t condone how she blatantly disrespected him in such a public way), but no man, especially one who felt stuck and desperate, and who genuinely cared for his family and was trying to do the best with what little they had, deserves to be led to believe that his wife had been kidnapped and gang raped then likely killed, so that he had to go back tell his child that his mother was dead. And if Milah had any knowledge of what Rumple was told, (likely because she was probably below deck and could hear his altercation with Hook), and did nothing to ease his grief over that, then I have no sympathy for her.
Well of course it wasn’t exactly the right thing to do, but if I’d been emotionally abused by a man for five-plus years, I think I’d be inclined to want to make him hurt a bit too. Also, I really didn’t get the impression that he cared about Milah herself all that much—again, he refers to her as if she has value only in what she can give him or Bae. He mentions his son twice but never asked Killian not to hurt Milah or to spare her life or anything, just to let her go back to serving her purpose.
Also worth noting, Milah did later apologize and acknowledge that she’d made a mistake (“I was wrong to lie to you. I was the coward. I know that now.”) Rumple certainly never apologized for the way he treated her, nor did he ever even acknowledge that murdering her was wrong.
I agree. Also Rumple never disrespected Milah publically. He tried to be subtle and encourage her to return home rather than calling her out for leaving her young son unattended at home.
He did publicly humiliate her—first of all in deserting during the Ogre Wars (and bringing shame and social isolation on his family), but also in that first scene in the tavern. Milah’s there drinking and playing dice with the pirates, and Rumple walks in and from across the table with everyone in earshot tells her condescendingly that “it’s time to go” and that she has “responsibilities” (like he’s scolding an errant child). If he really needed to talk to her, he could’ve gone up to her and spoken to her privately. I don’t call that subtle, personally.
Agreed, Rumple did deserve to be treated with more respect than what Milah was providing. Hook was being a tremendous jerk (honestly this is the only curse word that I could think of to describe him) in wanting to duel a cripple man who has a young kid at home whose has a mother that he is planning to run away. Neigher Milah or Hook was right in treating Rumple this way, and at the same time Rumple was wrong in killing Milah. Since two wrong don’t make a right, but I can’t say that she didn’t have it coming.
No, Milah didn’t respect Rumple—and she had a good reason. He deserted his fellow soldiers and then Milah had to pay for his mistakes by being ostracized from everyone around her. Now of course at that point it was probably too late for Rumple to return to the battle, but he could have at least partially fixed his mistake by moving somewhere where he wouldn’t be “the village coward”. We know that Milah asked him to move multiple times and expressed to him how miserable she was (“We’ve talked about this[…]I know this isn’t the life you wanted…”) but he just wouldn’t, and never gave a reason either. She was obviously miserable and he did nothing about it but scold her for not behaving how he wanted her to.
As for Hook himself, we know that Milah had talked to him about Rumple, so he probably didn’t feel sorry for Rumple having been injured since he did that to himself in order to avoid having to fight. And having spoken to Milah (who presumably told him why she wanted to leave when she begged him to take her with him), he probably also didn’t feel too much sympathy for the man who had emotionally abused and made miserable the woman he was falling in love with. Does that justify their having lied to Rumple? No, but it’s at least understandable, and Milah apologized for it later.
And I have to say…I find it rather disturbing when people say Milah had it coming or deserved what she got. Because first of all, she certainly didn’t do anything that should be punishable by death—telling someone you never loved them is not a capital crime, nor is leaving your husband for someone who treats you like an actual person. And in real life women are beaten or murdered every day by their partners for not behaving how they’re “supposed to”, and there’s often a victim-blaming mentality of “well, what did she do to deserve it?” that stops these crimes from being taken seriously. I know this is just a TV show, but I find those assertions rather problematic.
Well of course it wasn’t exactly the right thing to do, but if I’d been emotionally abused by a man for five-plus years, I think I’d be inclined to want to make him hurt a bit too.
you’re acting as though Milah didn’t emotionally abuse him too. He came home to raise their CHILD. And then without even hearing him out, she decided he “wasn’t a man” was a coward, and an unfit father. But apparently this didn’t matter when she up and left her child–twice. First time that we know of, she left him alone in a house, unsupervised, and who knows if he had been feed, so that she could go out drinking and flirting. And then she left her child with a man that she considered scum and not worthy of anyone or anything. You’re acting like this wasn’t a toxic marriage on both sides.
Also, I really didn’t get the impression that he cared about Milah herself all that much—again, he refers to her as if she has value only in what she can give him or Bae. He mentions his son twice but never asked Killian not to hurt Milah or to spare her life or anything, just to let her go back to serving her purpose.
I suggest you rewatch the opening scene of Manhattan. They clearly loved one another, without Bae.
Also worth noting, Milah did later apologize and acknowledge that she’d made a mistake (“I was wrong to lie to you. I was the coward. I know that now.”)
If I was talking to the most powerful man in all the realms, I’d probably start apologizing too. It’s called fear, but it does not equate to actual sorry feelings
Milah’s there drinking and playing dice with the pirates, and Rumple walks in and from across the table with everyone in earshot tells her condescendingly that “it’s time to go” and that she has “responsibilities” (like he’s scolding an errant child). If he really needed to talk to her, he could’ve gone up to her and spoken to her privately. I don’t call that subtle, personally.
Erm. She told him to run along home. She wouldn’t have gone with him privately at all. “It’s no one. Just my husband” and then lets her new “friend” talk down to Rumple. And then proceeds to call him a coward and not a man for everyone to hear. And…she has responsibilities. His name was Baelfire and he was left alone. I don’t particularly care if her life was hard…she’s a mother. She has responsibilities. She had them the moment he was born. She doesn’t get to abandon them. As a child who WAS abandoned, I’m pretty gosh darn offended that you’re leaving Bae = responsibility out of this. So it’s okay for her to leave him home alone, not knowing where his mother was (he shrugs when Rumple asks), unsupervised and again, had he been fed? Was he being taken care of at all?
No, Milah didn’t respect Rumple—and she had a good reason. He deserted his fellow soldiers and then Milah had to pay for his mistakes by being ostracized from everyone around her.
Yeah, so ostracized that she feels 100% comfortable going out to a public tavern and partying. Obviously the village piranha. Oh, and then there’s the woman who obviously cared enough to come tell Rumple and Milah was leaving. Sounds like everyone in town hated them.
We know that Milah asked him to move multiple times and expressed to him how miserable she was (“We’ve talked about this[…]I know this isn’t the life you wanted…”) but he just wouldn’t, and never gave a reason either. She was obviously miserable and he did nothing about it but scold her for not behaving how he wanted her to.
They are a dirt poor family living off what he makes as a weaver. It’s REALLY hard to pack up and move in that day and age. Should they maybe have talked about it more? YES. But again…you’re acting like there isn’t fault on both sides. Milah made a CHOICE to hate Rumple for leaving the way. She labeled it as cowardice. (it wasn’t but I guess that’s beside the point…)
And I have to say…I find it rather disturbing when people say Milah had it coming or deserved what she got. Because first of all, she certainly didn’t do anything that should be punishable by death—telling someone you never loved them is not a capital crime, nor is leaving your husband for someone who treats you like an actual person. And in real life women are beaten or murdered every day by their partners for not behaving how they’re “supposed to”, and there’s often a victim-blaming mentality of “well, what did she do to deserve it?” that stops these crimes from being taken seriously. I know this is just a TV show, but I find those assertions rather problematic.
Milah didn’t deserve to die. No one does to die an unnatural death. But who know who didn’t deserve any of this–BAELFIRE. And oh right, she was going to come back for him—lies. Hook said they thought about it but never did. Why? Because she clearly didn’t care that much. So no. She didn’t deserve to die, not by a long shot. But she abandoned her child.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"you’re acting as though Milah didn’t emotionally abuse him too. He came home to raise their CHILD. And then without even hearing him out, she decided he “wasn’t a man” was a coward, and an unfit father. But apparently this didn’t matter when she up and left her child–twice. First time that we know of, she left him alone in a house, unsupervised, and who knows if he had been feed, so that she could go out drinking and flirting. And then she left her child with a man that she considered scum and not worthy of anyone or anything. You’re acting like this wasn’t a toxic marriage on both sides.
She was mean to him, sure. But as the woman she had no power in the relationship at all. If he’d wanted to throw her out or take everything and leave her, he could’ve. If he’d wanted to move, they would have.
And as for coming home for Bae, here’s my problem with that—did he not think that the other men who’d been drafted might have had children or pregnant wives at home? Why was it okay for their children to be left fatherless but not his? I just don’t get that.
I suggest you rewatch the opening scene of Manhattan. They clearly loved one another, without Bae.
Yeah, I’ve thought about that; it doesn’t fit with the whole “I never loved you” thing. But then it’s easy to love (or think you love) someone when all is well and good. Also, it’s certainly possible to love someone while not respecting them or treating them as an equal. And he just seemed a lot more concerned about “what am I going to tell Bae?” than “Oh no, my wife has been abducted and will be subjected to a life of sexual slavery!” He just seemed more concerned about her as a wife and mother than as her own person, as he did many other times.
If I was talking to the most powerful man in all the realms, I’d probably start apologizing too. It’s called fear, but it does not equate to actual sorry feelings.
I can get seeing it that way, but I didn’t; it seemed more sincere than desperate. She didn’t really act all that afraid of him…shortly after that is when she just outright tells him “I never loved you”. It’s not like she was walking on eggshells; she didn’t think she had to because they had something he really wanted. Obviously she was wrong…
Erm. She told him to run along home. She wouldn’t have gone with him privately at all. “It’s no one. Just my husband” and then lets her new “friend” talk down to Rumple. And then proceeds to call him a coward and not a man for everyone to hear. And…she has responsibilities. His name was Baelfire and he was left alone. I don’t particularly care if her life was hard…she’s a mother. She has responsibilities. She had them the moment he was born. She doesn’t get to abandon them. As a child who WAS abandoned, I’m pretty gosh darn offended that you’re leaving Bae = responsibility out of this. So it’s okay for her to leave him home alone, not knowing where his mother was (he shrugs when Rumple asks), unsupervised and again, had he been fed? Was he being taken care of at all?
Yes, she probably wouldn’t have (unless he’d brought Bae in, since that’s why she left anyway) but he didn’t try. He was just so condescending. And I never claimed that she was a good mother; she just wasn’t and that’s all there is to it. I’m just saying that how Rumple treated her was wrong.
Yeah, so ostracized that she feels 100% comfortable going out to a public tavern and partying. Obviously the village piranha. Oh, and then there’s the woman who obviously cared enough to come tell Rumple and Milah was leaving. Sounds like everyone in town hated them.
But who are the people she’s drinking with? Pirates, sailors that aren’t from their village and don’t have the same biases toward Rumple’s family. It’s doubtful that she had anyone else to drink with. As to the random woman who showed up…honestly, I never understood that. It’s not like Milah would’ve been dragged on board kicking and screaming; how did that woman even know to tell him? But either way, one person telling Rumple about that does not a community make. Also, Rumple never tries to say otherwise when Milah points out that he’s universally known as the village coward; it just doesn’t seem to bother him. And it’s not all that surprising—Rumple injured himself to come home, and Milah said that there were a whole lot of other women who lost husbands (and most likely sons, fathers, brothers, etc.), so they probably couldn’t look at Rumple or Milah without being angry that he left their loved ones to die so he could get home.
They are a dirt poor family living off what he makes as a weaver. It’s REALLY hard to pack up and move in that day and age. Should they maybe have talked about it more? YES. But again…you’re acting like there isn’t fault on both sides. Milah made a CHOICE to hate Rumple for leaving the way. She labeled it as cowardice. (it wasn’t but I guess that’s beside the point…)
I don’t really get what you mean…she can’t really control her feelings. If her life was made miserable because of his actions, she probably couldn’t help but hate him. And we have no idea why he refused to move; again, he just talked down to her and dismissed her pain like he apparently had done several times before. He didn’t say “we’ve talked about this; we just can’t afford it” or anything.
Milah didn’t deserve to die. No one does to die an unnatural death. But who know who didn’t deserve any of this–BAELFIRE. And oh right, she was going to come back for him—lies. Hook said they thought about it but never did. Why? Because she clearly didn’t care that much. So no. She didn’t deserve to die, not by a long shot. But she abandoned her child.
Yes she did; however, I feel it’s worth noting that when Milah left Bae, she left him with a parent who was clearly a much better father than husband and loved him. When Rumple abandoned him, he let him go off into an unknown world completely alone. Either way the poor kid was definitely an innocent victim in all of this. And as for coming back for him, we don’t know it was a lie–I always figured that Milah was too ashamed to let Bae know she’d willingly left him and was afraid he’d just hate her, so she kept putting it off–but we have no evidence for that either. But ultimately at least we agree on two things: (1) Milah was a terrible mother and (2) she still didn’t deserve to die.
And as for coming home for Bae, here’s my problem with that—did he not think that the other men who’d been drafted might have had children or pregnant wives at home? Why was it okay for their children to be left fatherless but not his? I just don’t get that.
Because Rumple was abandoned and he’s trying to break the cycle. It’s something that is deeply ingrained in people who have been abandoned—you try your HARDEST to not abandon to the point of becoming clingy. I do it a lot. I cling desperately to people to make them stay because I was left.
Yeah, I’ve thought about that; it doesn’t fit with the whole “I never loved you” thing.
Go back and look at the interviews and podcasts from A and E. They did love each other. But it changed when he came from war.
I’m just saying that how Rumple treated her was wrong
And I’m saying that how they treated each other was wrong. It’s not a one sided deal.
But who are the people she’s drinking with? Pirates, sailors that aren’t from their village and don’t have the same biases toward Rumple’s family. It’s doubtful that she had anyone else to drink with. As to the random woman who showed up…honestly, I never understood that. It’s not like Milah would’ve been dragged on board kicking and screaming; how did that woman even know to tell him? But either way, one person telling Rumple about that does not a community make. Also, Rumple never tries to say otherwise when Milah points out that he’s universally known as the village coward; it just doesn’t seem to bother him. And it’s not all that surprising—Rumple injured himself to come home, and Milah said that there were a whole lot of other women who lost husbands (and most likely sons, fathers, brothers, etc.), so they probably couldn’t look at Rumple or Milah without being angry that he left their loved ones to die so he could get home.
She’s in a local tavern. And you’re making a lot of assumptions that she doesn’t have anyone to drink with. She went there, didn’t she? Was she going ot go sit in a dark corner and drown her sorrows. Is that better or worse. Or did she meet the pirates and then go for a drink with them, leaving her 4 year old behind? As for the woman: obvious plot device is obvious. Obviously. But the point remains, someone cared enough to go, even though saw Milah leaving of her own free will. They didn’t applaud her and say “yes. it’s about time.” They went to Rumple the supposed village outcast to tell him.
I don’t really get what you mean…she can’t really control her feelings. If her life was made miserable because of his actions, she probably couldn’t help but hate him. And we have no idea why he refused to move; again, he just talked down to her and dismissed her pain like he apparently had done several times before. He didn’t say “we’ve talked about this; we just can’t afford it” or anything.
I’m using my historical understanding of a medieval setting. You rarely pick up and leave home. He was the village spinner. Every village has one and probably no more. You cannot come in and infringe on another person’s trade because people aren’t going to flock to you when they’ve got Jon Doe who has been spinning for the village for years as did his father before. But “starting over” isn’t actually that easy. You can go to a town and set up shop but that’s incredibly expensive. And you’re not giving any of Rumple’s desires any consideration either. He didn’t want to leave. She did. Ok, irreconcilable differences. But she’s a coward and a horrible HORRIBLE mother who left, leaving her child behind to think that his mother was dead and never understanding. She’s no better than him in the end, but you’re not giving your vitriol to both parties. Rumple was a coward from coming home from the war? Well Milah was an unreasonable unforgiving…word I can’t say without banning myself…
Yes she did; however, I feel it’s worth noting that when Milah left Bae, she left him with a parent who was clearly a much better father than husband and loved him.
Rumple was an amazing father up until the Dark One’s Curse. But Milah had no regard for Rumple at this point. And she still chose to put herself and her desires ahead of her CHILD. She thinks Rumple is scum but apparently she doesn’t love her child enough to not leave him with someone so clearly beneath her.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"*points at everything RG said* Yeah, THAT.
Well of course it wasn’t exactly the right thing to do, but if I’d been emotionally abused by a man for five-plus years, I think I’d be inclined to want to make him hurt a bit too. Also, I really didn’t get the impression that he cared about Milah herself all that much—again, he refers to her as if she has value only in what she can give him or Bae. He mentions his son twice but never asked Killian not to hurt Milah or to spare her life or anything, just to let her go back to serving her purpose.
First of all, I don’t classify Milah as having been “emotionally abused” for 5+ years. Does that mean that when any relationship has troubles because things aren’t really working out but they try to stick at it anyway, that’s “emotional abuse”? It CAN be, but there are specific circumstances that classify a situation as ABUSE and Rumple wishing his wife could be happy with him doesn’t qualify IMO.
Secondly, Rumple was arguing with an unreasonable person, and it was pretty obvious that a guy like Hook wasn’t just gonna hand Rumple’s wife back, but if he mentioned their child, then maybe he had half a chance. Hook had actually seen Milah get up and go to her son in the tavern, so if perhaps he had any scrap of care or conscience, perhaps he’d take pity on her and let her go for the sake of her child, even though he didn’t give a crap about Rumple getting his wife back. Rumple was desperate, and was begging for the life of his wife any way he thought he might be able to save her.
Milah’s there drinking and playing dice with the pirates, and Rumple walks in and from across the table with everyone in earshot tells her condescendingly that “it’s time to go” and that she has “responsibilities” (like he’s scolding an errant child).
I honestly fail to see how Rumple was at all “condescending” in that scene. Had he hopped up on the table, hollered that Milah had shirked her parental responsibilities by leaving their child home alone so she could get drunk and whore up the town, THAT would be condescending. Quietly walking into a situation where he felt embarrassed and likely unsafe and quietly asking her to please come home is a thing he was completely justified in doing IMO.
I’m using my historical understanding of a medieval setting. You rarely pick up and leave home. He was the village spinner. Every village has one and probably no more. You cannot come in and infringe on another person’s trade because people aren’t going to flock to you when they’ve got Jon Doe who has been spinning for the village for years as did his father before. But “starting over” isn’t actually that easy. You can go to a town and set up shop but that’s incredibly expensive. And you’re not giving any of Rumple’s desires any consideration either. He didn’t want to leave. She did. Ok, irreconcilable differences. But she’s a coward and a horrible HORRIBLE mother who left, leaving her child behind to think that his mother was dead and never understanding. She’s no better than him in the end, but you’re not giving your vitriol to both parties. Rumple was a coward from coming home from the war? Well Milah was an unreasonable unforgiving…word I can’t say without banning myself…
Yep. And not to mention, the last time Rumple tried to make a fresh start somewhere else with his family (aka his father) was a fiasco. Rumple was cruelly abandoned. He lost his family. The experience must have been really traumatic; It haunted him the rest of his life, and even centuries later the straw doll his father gave him when he was a child still made him cry . So yeah, I can easily see why Rumple was so reluctant to leave the village. He was scared to death of losing his family again.
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