Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Four › 4×07 “The Snow Queen” › 407: Critical Analysis
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November 10, 2014 at 2:01 pm #289672angiebelleParticipant
My stance on OutlawQueen is that this is in no way a straightforward adultery case. As far as Robin was concerned, Marian was DEAD. In his mind, she’d be gone for at least 3 years. He’d moved on. When he first fell for Regina, she wasn’t even in the picture. She was brought back under very unusual, magical circumstances that threw Robin for a loop. I think, though, (and I could be wrong) that even in the real world, if a person goes missing for a certain length of time, they are declared dead, and the spouse is no longer considered married. It’s really not fair to expect Robin to just happily return to his wife and pretend the whole relationship with Regina never happened. If Robin would truly rather be with Regina, then forcing him to be with Marian isn’t *anyone’s* “happy ending”- Not Robin’s, not Marian’s, or Roland’s. If the man I was married to believed he would be happier with someone else, then I’d rather he go. I wouldn’t want to be with a man who was only staying with me out of obligation.
Now where Robin did mess up was in not being honest with Marian from the beginning. But Robin is being shown as a flawed character here, he’s made a poor choice- and he *knows* this! He admitted that what he was doing was not honorable. You know, we all judge. We all think we know better, that we would make the right choice in the same situation…but would we really? You don’t know for sure unless you’ve been in that situation. I don’t see this as the show telling us that what Robin is doing is a *good* thing. Remember, the story isn’t over yet.
This being said, I admit that the whole weird situation with Marian is my least favorite story thread on the show right now. I do wish they hadn’t brought Marian back in the first place as it just makes everything really awkward. (I disliked the Mary Margaret/ David Nolan story of S1 too. I don’t like awkward relationship situations.) I will be very disappointed if they decide to kill off Marian just so Robin and Regina end up together. That *would* leave a bad taste in my mouth.
[adrotate group="5"]November 10, 2014 at 2:17 pm #289673SlurpeezParticipantI think I’m in the same boat as you. I don’t care that Robin is in love with Regina; to be fair to him, he did think his wife was dead and he was moving on. It’s a terrible situation. I care that choosing to be with Regina means giving up honor and vows and self respect and knowing that he is going to hurt other people but not caring. If he wants to be with Regina then he should help get Marian back and then talk to her about all this.
Yeah, this is the biggest problem I have. As Lily Sparks wrote, “What’s more romantic than knowing a man loves you against his moral code and his better judgement? Yikes. Regina no. Don’t go from Evil Queen to Queen of the Side Chicks. It’s a lateral move!”
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 2:34 pm #289675SlurpeezParticipantIf Robin would truly rather be with Regina, then forcing him to be with Marian isn’t *anyone’s* “happy ending”- Not Robin’s, not Marian’s, or Roland’s. If the man I was married to believed he would be happier with someone else, then I’d rather he go. I wouldn’t want to be with a man who was only staying with me out of obligation.
My complaint isn’t that Robin has to stay with Marian out of a sense of duty, but him not even trying to find some love in his heart enough to save her seems cold (pun intended). Also, Marian wasn’t “just” his wife to whom he felt honor-bound; she’s also the mother of Roland, and the woman he once deeply loved. Trying to save Marian so that she can be there for their son doesn’t even seem to be registering on Robin’s radar screen. All he seems to think about is Regina, and how she makes him feel. But a good parent doesn’t just think of himself; he also must think of his kid. I’m not saying Robin has to stay with Marian for Roland’s sake, but can’t he be that good man that Marian once inspired him to be, enough to save the mother of his child? His boy shouldn’t have to grow up without knowing her. It makes me angry the way Henry was denied the chance to get to know his dad, too. Roland not getting to know his mom would seem like that messed up scenario all over again.
I don’t see this as the show telling us that what Robin is doing is a *good* thing. Remember, the story isn’t over yet.
I agree. I think it was clearly shown that Robin remembers the love he had with Marian, and it was a good, selfless kind of love that made him want to be a better person. I don’t think it’s totally over as far as his feelings for his wife are concerned. He’s clearly conflicted because of the feelings he has for Regina, which are real. He’s currently fighting his conscience in choosing to carry on with Regina while his wife sits frozen in limbo somewhere. He was after all drunk when he called upon Regina the second time. Alcohol can sometimes make people do things against their better judgment.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 3:04 pm #289676WickedRegalParticipant1) Morality in love and romance. Does pixie dust give you permission to cheat? Marian’s love made Robin want to be a better man, more than just a petty thief. Regina’s love makes Robin want to throw away all his honor, his code, his self respect and hurt those he cared about.
2) Inconsistent character writing with Snow White
3) Rumple. Just…Rumple. World domination, trying to get his son back, trying to make sure he never loses anyone ever again. Which is it? Consistency or not?
4) Illogical choices made by characters
5) Clunky writing and dialogue
6) Truly terrible life advice like, “true love is worth ruining your life over”
7) Potential retcon of Will Scarlet and his timeline.
1. So glad to see that everyone has remembered that Marian has been DEAD for 30 years! Robin Hood moved on, and mourned…it’s completely natural for this to happen. 30 years is WAY past the mourning/waiting stage….he raised Roland as a single father, which no doubt changed him further. The vows he made to Marian were till death did them part, and it did….but no where in the vows did it say anything about resurrection! Blame the precious Emma Swan for that one.
Okay….I think people are really starting to take Once a bit too serious, as real life cases can’t merge with a fantasy, fairy tale show that has magic and pixie dust! If Pixie Dust says someone is your soul mate, then they are! It’s Magic! It happens! Dismissing Pixie Dust Soul Mate, then heck, we may as well dismiss True Loves Kiss because it doesn’t happen in real life either, well depends on who you’re kissing at least. The point is…this is a Series Fairy Tale…Magic happens, Pixie Dust happened! He fell out of love with Marian, and fell in love with his soul mate Regina! Robin and Regina’s Soul Mate Bond is just as powerful as Snow and Charming’s True Love Bond.
I mean let’s be honest…it was a little exciting when Robin basically said “(Beep) the Code” and just went straight into kissing Regina….that was….wow. He picked her up too… (dabs eyes from tears)
Let The OutlawQueen Storm Rage Forth!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. My like for Snow White has always elevated and degraded, and the way she treated Emma could’ve been handled a little better. I’ll cut her mild slack for not wanting to hand over Baby Snowflake after she just saw Emma heat up a milk bottle, but the way she reprimanded Emma after she accidently lost her power, and warned them not to come near her, was completely uncalled for!
3. All his character development just went flying out the window….so….#GoodLuckRumbelles
4. The only illogical choices I saw were the Heroes actually believing catching Ingrid would be so easy, and then leaving her alone with Emma at the station. Then Rumple’s whole world domination plans….(sigh), and Gerda erasing the entire kingdom’s memories when she could’ve just erased the Duke’s, and come up with a lie for her sisters demise.
5. The writing and dialogue really wasn’t so bad this episode….it’s actually the best episode in the Season to me.
6. I think Will Scarlett could’ve given better advice, but the mere fact he was practically fanning the OutlawQueen Flames, eh (shrug).
7. I’m quite certain Anastasia is dead…unless she’s the third villainess in 4B.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
November 10, 2014 at 3:20 pm #289678SlurpeezParticipant1. So glad to see that everyone has remembered that Marian has been DEAD for 30 years! Robin Hood moved on, and mourned…it’s completely natural for this to happen. 30 years is WAY past the mourning/waiting stage….he raised Roland as a single father, which no doubt changed him further. The vows he made to Marian were till death did them part, and it did….but no where in the vows did it say anything about resurrection! Blame the precious Emma Swan for that one.
Well, it may have 30 years chronologically speaking, but Robin and Roland were frozen in the EF for 28 of those years. Remember when Cora created the bubble dome in the Enchanted Forest, she told Hook they’d be frozen for the duration of the curse. So to Robin, it’s more like 2 years have passed. That is why Roland, who was born prior the curse, is only 4 or 5 years old, rather than 34 or 35 years old. They were frozen in time. So two years is a lot less time to mourn the loss of a loved one. I’m not convinced he’s totally forgotten the love he had for Marian. I recall him even telling Regina once that if there’d been a way to get her back, he would’ve. Now that she’s back, it’s a lot more complicated since he has real feelings for Regina, but I think he knows it’s the selfish choice to make. He said he’s always been the righteous guy who does the right thing, and choosing to be with Regina while the mother of his child is frozen in limbo just seems selfish to me. Can’t Robin find a way long enough to save Marian, so Roland can have her in his life? Then he can talk about getting a divorce from Marian. Then he could choose to be with Regina. That just seems like a nobler way to go about things rather than the way he chose to in this episode.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 10, 2014 at 3:21 pm #289679GaultheriaParticipantI’m just assuming for now that the mirror is already affecting the whole town.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher
November 10, 2014 at 3:22 pm #289680kpercymanParticipantI think one of the issues with last nights episode was Snow’s first reaction to Emma. This was at the mommy and me group. When Emma heated the bottle and then proceeded to try to take Noah, you saw Snow flinch. That was not Snow-like and really set the tone for the rest of the episode.
Frozen Peeps: The whole Ingird back story contradicted the whole Frozen story. Basically with that episode they said that Ingrid did not have true sisterly bond with her sisters. I am sure it will be explained that their bond was held within the ribbons. Which is just another way of saying, we needed to change sisterly bond thing due to plot. I am not a huge fan of Frozen anyway but differing from the main part of the story just bugs me.
Robin/Regina/Marian: Robin just makes me sick when I see him. I think it’s because of how he is acting in this situation. It is the dialogue that makes me cringe when he comes on. I don’t know if it is the actor or the writer in this situation. I am leaning towards both! However, I don’t think this situation would be good anyway you look at it. If I were Regina and I told him to leave me alone I think I would have slapped him when he tried to kiss me.
Will Scarlett and Ana: I liked Ana, she was one of the reasons I watched WL as long as I did. I wanted her on Once. I know a lot of peeps didn’t like her but I would hate for them to do something to her and them not get their HE.
Rumple: What is up with him? If I had seen some type of character arc since Neal died to show him move towards this dark place I would get it. However, he hasn’t struggled or nothing. It was like, “I am evil what are you doing to do about it?” His relationship with Belle is no longer a relationship either. She seemed almost like an intruder in the shop instead of his wife. Their chemistry is off.
Emma: Um, she isn’t acting like Emma either. Emma would be questioning how easy it was to capture the SQ.
Hook: At least he is still acting like himself in this episode. The mirror line was hilarious and his questioning of Rumple was spot-on.
November 10, 2014 at 3:41 pm #289683MatthewPaulModeratorI do believe you are mistaken. Robin was not with (romantically) Marian when we met him OUATinWL, hence Robin’s distrust of magic “for a woman” (say the man who later stole a wand for Marian). Adam tweeted as much back during WL. And Will was with Robin, at most for a few days. That was what WL established, perhaps with more leeway than I’m giving the show, but not enough to hear this story “three dozen times” (even accounting for exaggeration)
Adam only confirmed that the flashback was before “Lacey”, not before he and Marian even met. Big difference. “Lacey” took place when the two were already married and Marian was in labor with Roland. So yes, Marian and Robin were likely already seeing each other, and just because Marian wasn’t at the camp with them or helping them with their missions during that episode doesn’t automatically mean otherwise. Marian could have still been living at her home during that point in time. I mean Will didn’t have to sleep at the Merry Men’s camp each night, as we saw him returning home to Anastasia that first night. And actually, Robin’s story about how he and Marian met also leans towards them already being together before he met Will. In the flashback, Robin clearly had his “steal from the rich, to give to the poor” mantra at that point in time, while he stated he stole for himself back before he met Marian. And having actually re-watched some of those flashbacks just the other day, Will mentions sticking around “for a few days” before raiding Maleficent’s fortress, so more stuff could have happened between Will’s induction into the Merry Men and the raid. We watch these flashbacks assuming how much time has passed between scenes, when really it’s pretty ambiguous and there’s room for leeway.
November 10, 2014 at 3:51 pm #289686RumplesGirlKeymasterOkay….I think people are really starting to take Once a bit too serious, as real life cases can’t merge with a fantasy, fairy tale show that has magic and pixie dust! If Pixie Dust says someone is your soul mate, then they are! It’s Magic! It happens!
Interesting how this is the defense when it’s YOUR OTP on the line…but when it comes to other ships it’s “this is not how it would work in the real world”
Goes back to what I wrote two critical analysis threads ago: emotional truths. You’re too excited in the shippy shipness of it all. These are not good morals. No one is saying that Robin can’t love Regina; I get that he moved on. But he told Regina in the first episode that he made a vow and now he wants to throw them all out the window in five seconds.
And you’re totally ignoring the part where Regina told him to STAY AWAY TWICE. That’s just disrespectful on so many levels on his part.
Adam only confirmed that the flashback was before “Lacey”, not before he and Marian even met. Big difference.
If they were seeing each other (maybe) it was literally just beginning given Robin’s stance of disgust that Will would break vows he made to the Merry Men “for a woman.”
And actually, Robin’s story about how he and Marian met also leans towards them already being together before he met Will. In the flashback, Robin clearly had his “steal from the rich, to give to the poor” mantra at that point in time, while he stated he stole for himself back before he met Marian. And having actually re-watched some of those flashbacks just the other day, Will mentions sticking around “for a few days” before raiding Maleficent’s fortress, so more stuff could have happened between Will’s induction into the Merry Men and the raid. We watch these flashbacks assuming how much time has passed between scenes, when really it’s pretty ambiguous and there’s room for leeway.
I agree with this but it’s super convenient and slightly stretchy and involves the audience either not knowing WL at all (which is probably mostly what is happening here) or that they aren’t as invested in the timeline and these problems as the rest of us.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 10, 2014 at 5:16 pm #289694truidiaParticipant4) Illogical choices made by characters
5) Clunky writing and dialogue
6) Truly terrible life advice like, “true love is worth ruining your life over”
7) Potential retcon of Will Scarlet and his timeline.
1) I keep associating the Marian/Robin/Regina triangle with the film Castaway. Tom Hanks’ plane crashes and he’s missing for years. His fiancee mourns his death, but ultimately moves on, get’s married, and has a child. Obviously not a perfect example because Regina and Robin apparently fell in love after two or three kissing sessions (for real?), but if we accept that he has fallen in love with her, then in my eye’s he does more harm than good by staying with a women he no longer loves. I’m sure others will disagree with me, which is cool. To each their own. This seems to be a hot button issue for a lot of people based on some ideological difference of opinion i.e., sanctity of marriage vs following your heart.
2) So I don’t necessarily this Snow is inconstantly written. She has been notoriously oblivious to Emma’s feelings, re: cave of secrets and her decision to stay with poisoned David on Neverland without a single thought to who Emma would feel about it. She really does have a bad case of foot and mouth disease when it comes to Emma. Remember their first scene ever in the pilot? “He’s like any adopted child. He wrestles with that most basic question they all inevitably face: why would anyone give me away?” Said Snow White, to the woman who gave Henry up. Oops.
3) Rumple is on a backslide right now. To him, power (not magic) is his addiction, probably because he had so little of it during the pre-dark one portion of his life. He spent two hundred (or so) years building up that power, and has resisted giving it up multiple times, 1) Baelfire down the bean hole 2) True Loves Kiss with Belle 3) bringing magic to Storybrooke, and 4) Fake dagger fiasco. The hat is the ultimate temptation. It’s his JW Blue Label. I don’t think he really wants to take over the world, however; I think he loves the idea that he could, if he ever needed to.
6) Was that a quote from the episode? I feel like that’s an opinion not an actual quote.
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