407: Critical Analysis

Marian inspired Robin Hood. What has Regina inspired in him? A belief in a second chance? But now he doesn’t need a second chance at love with her–he needs it with his wife. His story only made me feel more strongly that he belongs with Marian, and choosing Regina is The Wrong Choice. He as much as said it when he said he was throwing out his whole moral code to be with her.

Robin just took a nose dive off the cliff of likability. I used to think that Robin/Marian should be together but now I think Marian deserves better. It’s a shame what they’ve done to Robin’s character. He used to be a decent guy but now he is not.

You do NOT ruin your life and others’ lives to be with someone you think is hot. Even if you have a deep, awesome connection (a connection, mind you, that we’ve seen portrayed as mostly consisting of “we lost our first loves, so we can understand each other” and a dash of pixie dust).

I agree. For me, OQ is not built on any real substance other than Robin thinking Regina is “hot” and “because pixie dust said so”. There is no emotional connection moment for them. Robin went straight in at “I dig you” the moment he met Regina. He doesn’t seem at all perturbed at Regina’s past which is quite disconcerting. If Robin was unmarried and childless and wanted to be with someone like Regina, then that’s his prerogative, he’s a grown man and can make his own decisions (hence why there isn’t an issue with Belle not being so bothered by Rumple’s past. Rumple being in her life doesn’t impact on anyone else). However, Robin has Roland and you would think he’d be a bit more wary about letting his young son near someone with a reputation as “the evil queen”. OQ do not have the emotional connection or build up that the other main couples on the show have. The writers tried to short cut to OQ with pixie dust and it shows. I have no reason to want to root for this couple, I think Regina is better off away from OQ.

That’s why Lacey was such a terrible thing for Rumbelle–she, unlike Belle, encouraged Rumple’s darker side. And the influence of that was that he strongly considered killing his own grandson.

I think Lacey is an interesting situation. I agree with Screwball Ninja’s theory that Lacey IS BELLE but with the brakes off. Rumple was honest with Lacey, in that he told her about the prophesy rather than Belle probably because he felt more comfortable telling a slightly less moral Belle, but to be fair to her, she probably wasn’t trying to suggest for Rumple to kill someone, just maybe run them out of town. If Lacey had just been Dark Belle, I think she’d be more liked much like Mirror Belle. The fact that Lacey is not Belle is probably where the dislike of Lacey comes from.

No matter how much Roland likes Regina or Robin’s over Marian, OQ hurts both Roland and Marian by splitting up their family. And Marian’s done nothing wrong to deserve the man that from her perspective loved her only a few days ago–loved her so much he was willing to face the wrath of Rumplestiltskin–suddenly rejecting her just because he got the attention of a hot queen. She didn’t even have a choice in the matter of being brought back.

The idea that Roland likes Regina so much only comes from Roland’s line “Regina lets me” about the ice cream. What kid isn’t going to like the adult that lets them have ice cream whenever they want. Ask Roland how he feels about Regina after she’s put him in time out or confiscated his favourite toy and he’d probably be less complimentary. Kids aren’t stupid when it comes to playing adults off against each other, Roland knew exactly what he was doing when he said that line.

Roland also called Marian “mama” unprompted when he first saw her in the diner and hugged her. Kids tend to be very wary of strangers, if Roland did not know Marian very well he would’ve stayed silent and hidden behind Robin or stayed in his seat. The argument that Regina should usurp Marian’s place because Roland doesn’t know her very well and so wouldn’t mind is flawed.

I honestly cannot see a way for Regina and Robin to be together at this point that I could accept. If you kill Marian or even have her acquiesce to Robin leaving her for Regina, that just reinforces Regina’s destructive belief that the only way she can have her happy ending is by taking happy endings away from other people (like, all the people caught up in her curse, Snow & Charming repeatedly, Rumplestilstkin when she kidnapped Belle as insurance, Hansel & Gretel & their father, Owen & Flynn, etc etc etc. She’s believed it for a very long time).

My only hope is that they’re going to have OQ crash and burn and Robin eventually realize he was better off with Marian and Regina realize that she’s become too good for a man who would dump his entire moral code to be with her.

I agree. Regina should find someone who’s wife she didn’t murder in the past. Also Robin should’ve broken it off with Marian before she got frozen and he started pursuing Regina again. It seems like Robin is disheartened because TLK didn’t work so because his first choice didn’t work out for him, he’s now pursuing option B Regina. Robin has reduced Regina to being “the other woman” and frankly she deserves better than that.

As for Snow’s reaction, we’ve seen her be hesitant before about Emma’s learning her magic. She’s never been against Emma’s having magic–she loves her daughter as she is–but she’s never been entirely comfortable with it, either. And if it means putting her new infant son in the arms of someone who just proved her hands could boil milk…that’s scary. Especially for a woman who has had two sorceresses come for her children before.

I think Snow was a little out of order and it is actually because of her that Emma is in her current situation. Snow physically moved baby Nemo away from Emma, you could see the hurt look on Emma’s face until she got the phone call. Outside the sheriff station was worse where she said “Emma!” in such a “how could you” tone as if it wasn’t all an accident. We know “magic is about emotion” and the reason why Emma’s powers are all haywire is because the Snow Queen had been pushing Emma’s buttons on her insecurity about her place in her mom’s heart. You could tell Emma was thinking back to Snow at the baby club when the snow queen was saying about loved ones fearing you. Emma has good reason to feel insecure since Snow told her in the echo cave that the baby is basically her replacement.

If Robin wants to part ways with Marian after he saves her, then so be it, but the way he isn’t even trying to save her is very unheroic.

I agree. This episode Robin was very much “screw Marian” all because he’s decided he wants to get in Regina’s pants. Also slight inconsistency between Robin’s version of how he met Marian and what was said in Lacey about Robin stealing Marian from the sheriff.

willowfan21 wrote:

This isn’t the first time we’ve seen adultery explored on the series.

I said this in another thread….the MM and David affair was still bad, but they were actually married in their real lives and living under an evil curse that wiped their memories. Robin has no such excuse.

I think the MM/David affair wasn’t as bad. Ignoring the fact that Snowing were true love anyway, David chose MM over Kathryn before being magically influenced to choose Kathryn. Robin chose Marian and then only crawled back to Regina because Marian was frozen. MM was David’s first choice, Regina is Robin’s second.

Ok, so the point was? It was bad advice. Terrible advice. Will doesn’t know what Robin is going through, no, but on the whole, that’s bad advice. Ruining your life for love? Eek.

I agree.

2) It was quicker to go to Rumple than to try and scramble to find something with which to break in to the station.

They could’ve used Hook’s hook. He was right there.

The point was that if you value love, it’s worth pursuing even if doing so screws your life up.

I still find that message a little iffy. There is a difference between fighting for love and screwing your life up for love. The latter is extremely unhealthy and is not a good way to start a relationship as it then means one half of the couple is then indebted to the other.

Even if they DID retcon certain elements of previous storylines, why is that a bad thing? Creators retcon stuff all the time.

Retconning screws with continuity. Some things might be minor, others major. In general though, retconning is either a mistake by the writers (for example if Cinderella’s baby is now suddenly a boy) or deliberate because the writers didn’t like something previously canon and are now trying to rectify it.

After rewatching this episode, I’ve come to a firm conclusion: whether or not people like this episode depends on their stance of a.) what’s going on with certain plot threads and b.) how they stand on separate issues.

Having said that, let me go into what I’m taking away and my analysis of that.

1. Rumple wants to take over the world. I have problems with this because, well, he has had that ability before. Rumple has been in many different realms, possessing all his glorious, convenient-for-the-plot power. He knows EVERYONE. He has made deals that have given him influence over certain situations. If he wanted to take over a realm, HE COULD’VE DONE SO. What makes this one, one that he was so terrified of navigating (re: 2×13, “Tiny,”), so different? The creators have said that Rumple’s motivations are inspired by Zelena controlling him last season. While I can see where he’s coming from, that should tie into one of his core traits: self-preservation. I’m sure President Obama and Taylor Swift can’t help him with that, so I don’t know what angle they could take with this without it destroying Rumple’s character completely unless he’s doing this to resurrect Neal. I am, however, keeping an open mind that Ingrid was lying, but knowing how this show loves to have other characters explain someone’s motivations (re: 3×18, “Bleeding Through,” 4×06, “Family Business,”), it isn’t unprecedented to take what she says at face value.

2. Seeing Aurora back made me wonder: when are we ever going to find out how Philip returned? I mean, the creators have confirmed he’s still alive (after the Monkey Massacre); he’s been prominent in a number of episodes; and he is the father of Philip Jr. This isn’t a plot thread you leave hanging!

3. “Jack gets a gender swap! Alex gets a gender swap! EVERYBODY GETS A GENDER SWAP!”
<li>The Rock Trolls have become the new magic beans. They are there for convenience to the plot, and it gives the writers an excuse to beat the living heck out of the lost memories trope. “Oh, the Rock Trolls just took the memories of an entire kingdom. No big deal. RATINGS.”
<li>Will Scarlet. You’re in my top five characters in the Onceiverse. I don’t want that to change because of a retconned WL ending, so don’t make it so by giving out horrible advice. I would never ruin my life and my future over a woman. Would I make sacrifices for a woman that I loved? Of course! I’d do anything for her! With that said, I wouldn’t let everything around me fall apart because of my love for her.

4. Outlaw Queen is a tricky subject. On my bus ride home, I was contemplating how Robin must feel, looking at it from a male’s perspective. His dead wife just popped into his life again, right when things were going well with Regina. He decided to uphold his honor and leave Regina for Marian which, even in the eyes of Regina, was the right thing to do. This I’m fine with, which leads me into the whole True Love’s Kiss debacle.

With TLK, it works on only one person: your True Love. My understanding of True Love (in the show’s mythology) is that you love that person wholeheartedly. If you have an interest in another person (legitimately, not a faux relationship between David and Kathryn), then the original “love” isn’t your TL. In Robin’s case, Marian cannot be his TL because he has professed a love for Regina. Was she his TL once? Yes, that was shown. But, after she died and he mourned, he moved past that. Now, faced with the Mariansicle, Robin Hood can’t kiss her because she is no longer his True Love.

What I’m annoyed about is how Robin Hood is handling this situation. First, he starts to stalk Regina like there’s no tomorrow. Then, after being reminded by Will about his values and how Marian made him see the light AND being asked by Regina to leave her alone (heck, she was even talking about how she would move on!), he ignores all that and starts to make out with Regina. Heck, she could’ve filed a sexual harassment suit because of that!

All in all, this episode wasn’t the best. Not my least favorite this season (that goes to the premiere, which is usually one of my favorite episodes during the season), but certainly not the best. To be fair, though, I do like Elizabeth Mitchell’s portrayal of the Snow Queen. The character, not so much.

How about the fact Cinderella didn’t name all the babies in the song? There were at least 5 mothers with their babies their and Cinderella only named the 3 Disney princess babies. What about the baby dressed as Mickey Mouse? His mother must have a sense of humour, what about them?

RumplesGirl wrote:

Let’s just agree that we’ve all had our say about OQ–positive or negative–and try to analyze ANOTHER aspect of the show.

How about the fact that until now, Emma Swan’s magic has never been out of control? It feels like the only reason we’re now getting that development is because of Frozen and because that is what Elsa and Ingrid went through. Emma has never felt misunderstood by her parents because of her magic; she felt understood by them because of her feelings of abandonment. If anything, Emma’s magic has always been shown to be protective. Snow was amazed in the best possible way when Emma’s magic saved her from Cora. It’s light magic born of true love. It doesn’t make sense for Emma’s magic to be destructive the way, say, Elsa or Ingrid’s ice magic has the potential to be. Their ice magic is a force of nature that can kill whereas True Love magic is supposed to be the purest magic of all. It’s not supposed to boil a baby’s bottle of milk to harm potential baby.

Since “magic is about emotion”, I think what is happening now is Emma’s insecurities about her place in her mother’s heart is coming to the surface. Considering Snow basically told Emma in Neverland that the new baby would be replacement Emma, I can’t blame Emma for feeling a little bit anxious. Ingrid pushed Emma’s buttons and Snows reaction at the baby club is still playing on Emma’s mind.