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Once again our weekly Critical thread. Remember, if you are here there will likely be some negativity toward characters and writing.
The entire episode rather bugged me, so instead I’m just going to pose a list of questions based on reactions I’ve seen around today. Please note, not all of these views are mine.
1) Did this episode REALLY need to be 2 hours?
2) Are Anna’s ramblings getting to be too much?
3) Inconsistency in hearts and frozen people
4) Rumple: does he have an agenda and/or plan beyond GET ALL THE POWER? And if yes, are you patient enough to hear it out or are you done with this? And if no, what does that mean for him?
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"4) Rumple: does he have an agenda and/or plan beyond GET ALL THE POWER? And if yes, are you patient enough to hear it out or are you done with this? And if no, what does that mean for him?
After last night, after he lied to Emma about how to remove her power, I’m not sure I care to know why he is doing what he’s doing. I get that he wants to free himself from the dagger and have all the power without the limitations stuff, but what else? What’s the bigger purpose for that? Is it to rule the world?
The thing Rumple still doesn’t get, even if he does succeed, he can’t have all power and retain his relationship with Belle. He made the difficult choice once to choose between saving his son and letting go of the dagger and he made the difficult but right decision and let go of the dagger to save his son.
Now, if he were presented with a similar choice this season: Belle’s love or ultimate power and no gray area in between, I’m not sure he would choose Belle. I think he would choose magic because that seems to matter more to him at the moment than telling her the truth.
As I said in a different thread, it’s been very difficult for me to like or even sympathize with Rumple. But I think it would be harder for me to feel bad for Belle (I don’t like her being lied to constantly), but her reaction when all this stuff comes out, really comes out — what’s it going to be?
Is it going to be, “Oh Rumple, I’m so sorry honey that you feel that way. All’s forgiven and they move on’ or is it going to be, all blazes furious Belle, as she should be? If she reacts all sorry for him and takes him back without hesitation, I would question Belle’s sanity in that choice.
1) Did this episode REALLY need to be 2 hours?
No. I found the first half of the episode dragged. I thought this episode was going to be the big crap hits the fan episode hence the run time. Unfortunately it was not to be.
2) Are Anna’s ramblings getting to be too much?
Yes. Kristoff I like, Elsa I’m okay with, but Anna is getting annoying. She doesn’t have the lovability that the animated version has. It’s not the actress’ fault, it’s the writing.
3) Inconsistency in hearts and frozen people
Frozen people I’m not too worried about but there needs to be some consistency with hearts.
4) Rumple: does he have an agenda and/or plan beyond GET ALL THE POWER? And if yes, are you patient enough to hear it out or are you done with this? And if no, what does that mean for him?
I can’t hate Rumple for not telling Belle absolutely everything but sometimes you do just want to smack him around the head and say:
I do think and hope Rumple has a bigger motivation than just gaining power.OutlawQueen has singlehandedly destroyed Robin’s character and is dragging Regina’s character down with it.
It’s a worrying sign when the person who actually seems to care for Marian the most is the woman who murdered her originally.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix1) Did this episode REALLY need to be 2 hours?
The first half felt more like filler, but I think the intensity of the second half made up for that.
3) Inconsistency in hearts and frozen people
The hearts I don’t have time to get into right now (though I think it’s been pretty consistent?).. but the frozen people I think has also been somewhat consistent. These are the cases we know of so far…
1. Anna in the movie – Elsa unintentionally hit her with an out of control spell.
2. Hans was intentionally frozen by Ingrid. We don’t know if she killed him. I’m thinking not since he’s in tact. She cast an intentional spell on him to freeze his movements but not his heart. She was in total control of this.
3. Marion – again this was an intentional spell by Ingrid to freeze her and her heart. She was in total control of this.
4. Helga – Unintentionally hit with an out of control spell. Ingrid’s magic is more powerful than Elsa’s and that’s why it insta-killed Helga instead of the slow acting one on Anna in the movie.
5. Anna and Kristoff (and possibly all of the kingdom) – intentionally frozen in place by Ingrid.
I think it’s safe to say that Ingrid (and possibly Elsa) have the ability to freeze but not kill people if they intentionally cast the spell that way. Or in Ingrid’s case she can intentionally cast a slow acting fatal spell on someone. They were out of control of their magic when they hurt the ones they loved. Or I guess it could be argued that Ingrid was in control with the Helga one but was intending for that spell to hit the Duke. Either way it seems consistent to me. It’s just a matter of them being in or out of control of their magic.
2) Are Anna’s ramblings getting to be too much?
A bit, yeah. Which made Rumple’s line about preferring her as a “less mouthy” ice statue all the more funny.
What did you all think of Snow in this episode?
Honestly? I am exasperated with her and Charming. The writers are trying so hard to shoehorn in all the themes of Frozen that because Emma = Frozen Move! Elsa, they are making Snowing out to be the parents who are rejecting their daughter out of fear.
In what universe do Snow and Charming not go after their daughter to at least TALK to her??? In what universe does it take a pep talk from Regina (the step mother who tried to kill Snow…) to remind them how to parent? Does anyone else remember when Snow and Charming knew they might die but they followed Emma in the mines anyway, believing in her and believing in what she might be able to do??
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I love the Rumbelle storyline (the tiny tiny bits we get of it anyway, and the beautiful headcanons we fans build around those snippets) enough that yeah, I’ll wait for them to tell me what Rumple’s after enough to suck Emma into the hat for.
I still believe that his choice to use Emma was framed as a golden opportunity he couldn’t pass up, rather than a desire to harm Emma; I don’t think he’d even considered it until she begged him to remove her powers. He did lie to her initially about his plan, but when she asked whether she’d be all right afterwards, he was (for Rumple) reasonably honest. The line that sticks out for me is when he tells her outright that she doesn’t need to change. It’s buried in his otherwise honest assessment of her that he’s still using to manipulate her into giving him her power, but I think there’s a part of Rumple that didn’t want to hurt her. And I think that was there on the screen, not just my headcanon. The phrasing of things in a couple of places…
“I don’t have to betray the whole town, just you. And, I’m afraid, Miss Swan.” He doesn’t mind betraying DQ for this chance; getting the savior’s power probably would be enough for him to free himself from the dagger almost immediately. But the afraid notes a bit of reluctance in his betraying Emma. Not enough to stop him, or keep him from being a mite disappointed when she chooses not to go in the hat–he was very close to his goal–but the reluctance is there.
Someone in another thread compared it to the moment when he was toying with killing Henry on the playground, and I think it IS a very good parallel to what’s going on with him here. He doesn’t want to hurt Henry, but the suggestion that he should and can has been put there by Lacey (and of course his ancient plan to just kill the boy in the prophecy), and that doing so will help him reach his goals. He’s also in a dark place there–his son wants nothing to do with him, his girlfriend isn’t really the woman he loves and likes him badder than bad, and he’d just killed off another ex in order to survive the first ex’s lover’s murder attempt. (This really is a soap, isn’t it?) But his goal there was eternal life and at least something like happiness with Lacey.
The hat’s working similarly on him, I think. His son’s dead and he just murdered the woman who controlled him and tortured him for a year. And the hat’s promising him everlasting power–and freedom. The pull of what he wants is stronger than his desire not to hurt people he cares about, or he wouldn’t be lying to Belle.
I’m…rambling I think.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
1) Did this episode REALLY need to be 2 hours?
Two hours, nope, but in a way I did like that they got to have some more time. I mentioned this in the like/dislike thread, but I liked that there were some actual conversations, though I didn’t especially like the specific content of the conversations. It felt like character scenes that normally end up on the cutting room floor were able to stay this time, and that’s a step in the right direction. But that doesn’t require a two hour ep, so they still had to fill it with other stuff that wasn’t as productive. If they could find a balance where they can keep the character moments in the one hour format, I think the show would be much better over all.
2) Are Anna’s ramblings getting to be too much?
Anna would be an exhausting person to be around every day.
3) Inconsistency in hearts and frozen people
Consistency is a thing that I have very little hope for any more. *throws up hands*
4) Rumple: does he have an agenda and/or plan beyond GET ALL THE POWER? And if yes, are you patient enough to hear it out or are you done with this? And if no, what does that mean for him?
I just don’t know what to do with Rumple. I don’t know that any explanation of a grander plan that’s not completely nefarious could ever justify the way he’s currently acting. And that’s disappointing, because it feels like there’s no way they can construct an arc for his character that will satisfy me when all is said and done, and he was my fave from the start of the show, so I’d been expecting to see and enjoy a satisfying arc for him.
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