Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Four › 4×08 “Smash the Mirror” › 408: Critical Analysis
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November 19, 2014 at 8:06 pm #290995RumplesGirlKeymaster
Even though I think Rumple doesn’t really want world domination (he’s way too subtle for that in my estimation), any ultimate plan he might have doesn’t seem justifiable to me.
Yes yes yes yes!
In the past, I was able to argue about parental love and the mea culpa that is Rumple’s arc…the familiar phrase was “what parent wouldn’t move heaven and earth to find their child?” And now…his son apparently doesn’t factor into this at all given that Rumple’s willing to sacrifice the woman Neal thought was his true love.
It’s evil and power for the sake of evil and power and some notion of self preservation and fear, which is fine, I get that. That has always been apart of Rumple–but there was always more. There was the search for Bae or trying to be a better man for Belle…gods something underneath the manipulation and the lies and the conceits.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 19, 2014 at 9:13 pm #291059MatthewPaulModeratorI think the closest selfish thing that Rumple did prior that had nothing to do with Neal or Belle was stealing the egg from Emma and bringing magic into Storybrooke. He only brought magic into town because he’s still a coward who relies on magic as a crutch, but it actually caused a further roadblock in the search for his son. People being unable to leave town without losing their memories was the price for bringing magic into Storybrooke, as Rumple himself said. Oh, and he risked Henry’s life in the process by stealing the egg from Emma.
November 19, 2014 at 9:42 pm #291063PheeParticipantThe problem is that Rumple hasn’t learned his lesson, despite all the progress he seemed to have made when he sacrificed himself to save his loved ones from his father.
This! Up until the point he killed Pan they progressed the character beautifully. He made poor, desperate, selfish choices, he killed, he manipulated, but he had a motivation for it all, and then it didn’t pay off like he’d hoped, he still had to struggle to win back the trust and respect of his son. And at the culmination of it all he SACRIFICED HIS LIFE to save his family. It was a beautiful arc that showed him grow. And now they’re trashing that growth.
I was listening to a podcast last night and they said how they like how he’s becoming the ultimate villain again and I nearly turned it off in a rage because the Evil!Rumple we’re getting now really isn’t a return to his previous self and to think that is a discredit to how complex he was in the past.
November 19, 2014 at 9:55 pm #291064PheeParticipantPS. As for him technically giving her a choice whether or not to open the door and if he really wanted her in the hat she’d be in the hat. Honestly, I think the only reason he didn’t force her in there with his own two hands is so that if he were accused of doing something to her he could say, “It was her choice.” Trying to convince himself that he wasn’t really doing the bad thing so he didn’t have to accept responsibility.
Granted that’s not a new thing for him, but the fact that he’d stoop that low at this point in time and with EMMA of all people?! Like, I might be able to see it if he’s motivated by resenting her for having gone to the past and done nothing to attempt to change the future when his son died, but I’m just fanwanking that reasoning because I’m reaching to try and see why he’d turn on Emma of all people like this. Though even if that WAS his motivation, after all he’s been through with his son he should know that he wouldn’t approve at all, so it really doesn’t make me feel any better about the whole hot mess that is Rumple right now.
November 19, 2014 at 10:00 pm #291065RumplesGirlKeymasterPS. As for him technically giving her a choice whether or not to open the door and if he really wanted her in the hat she’d be in the hat. Honestly, I think the only reason he didn’t force her in there with his own two hands is so that if he were accused of doing something to her he could say, “It was her choice.” Trying to convince himself that he wasn’t really doing the bad thing so he didn’t have to accept responsibility.
He had every confidence that Emma would open that door; he ensures that when he does his whole “you’re a hero who makes right choices and that means doing into this room cause HERO.” You’re right, if it came back to him he could claim that Emma went into the room of her own free will but not mentioning that he totally manipulated her “free will”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 20, 2014 at 12:47 am #291082KebParticipantHe turned on Emma because she came to him and BEGGED him to take her powers. It was an opportunity that would have gotten him MUCH closer to filling up the hat with the power he needs, possibly a shortcut right to the end which is why he was so willing to betray DQ, too, and actively break a deal.
It’s a bit like handing an alcoholic a drink and begging them to drink it so you don’t have to.
His speech to DQ showed that he may even have believed this to be the lesser evil. Instead of betraying Storybrooke to DQ’s whims, he was just betraying DQ and Emma.
And when Emma doesn’t go in the hat, he’s feeling a loss because for a few hours he believed that he was going to get all that power in one simple go. But tells Hook that he’s going to find “another way to fill that hat with the power it needs.” I’m not sure he’s going to try it on Emma twice…and that, to me, also says that it was a good opportunity but that he’d rather not hurt Emma directly if he doesn’t have to.
And yes, I get that his long-term motives for evil before Neal’s death made a lot more sense than what we know of his motives right now. The fact that DQ suggested there’s more he wants than just his freedom, that it’s beyond the boundaries of Storybrooke, makes me wonder. I don’t believe world domination is what he wants…power, yes. I keep hoping that what he really wants, though, is a way to bring his son back–that the hat is offering him that in the end. I still believe the writers are going to make me sympathetic to whatever his goals are (and I already am to his desire to be free of the dagger and keep his power, even if the methods are evil).
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
November 20, 2014 at 9:10 am #291099RumplesGirlKeymasterIt’s a bit like handing an alcoholic a drink and begging them to drink it so you don’t have to.
While I agree with your simile, it’s still the fault of the alcoholic for taking that drink.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"November 20, 2014 at 10:12 am #291111SlurpeezParticipantAnd when Emma doesn’t go in the hat, he’s feeling a loss because for a few hours he believed that he was going to get all that power in one simple go. But tells Hook that he’s going to find “another way to fill that hat with the power it needs.” I’m not sure he’s going to try it on Emma twice…and that, to me, also says that it was a good opportunity but that he’d rather not hurt Emma directly if he doesn’t have to.
I don’t think Rumple would attempt to take Emma’s magic again, but not because he doesn’t want to. I think he’s just too smart for that and doesn’t want to get caught. Emma’s onto him after that last attempt to suck her into the hat, and Rumple doesn’t want to go up against Emma directly because he knows how powerful she is. Rumple may target Emma’s brother as this “other way” of filling the hat with magic, since I predict baby Neal has magic.
I think Rumple would hurt Emma to get what he wants, and that he’s always seen her as a means to an end to get whatever he wants. He made her the savior of a curse he created to locate Baelfire. This wasn’t even the first time Rumple made a threat against Emma, since he was about to get physical with her when she wasn’t going to tell him where Neal was until Neal returned to his apartment. Neal wasn’t about to let his father harm Emma, whom he never stopped loving.
And yes, I get that his long-term motives for evil before Neal’s death made a lot more sense than what we know of his motives right now. The fact that DQ suggested there’s more he wants than just his freedom, that it’s beyond the boundaries of Storybrooke, makes me wonder. I don’t believe world domination is what he wants…power, yes. I keep hoping that what he really wants, though, is a way to bring his son back–that the hat is offering him that in the end. I still believe the writers are going to make me sympathetic to whatever his goals are (and I already am to his desire to be free of the dagger and keep his power, even if the methods are evil).
Speaking as a big fan of Neal and of Emma, if Rumple is tying to bring Neal back, doing so by harming Emma is a really terrible idea. Neal forgave Rumple for abandoning him as a child, especially when he realized his dad had been abandoned too. Neal watched his father die a hero. Neal thanked his father for showing him what it meant to make a sacrifice, just before Neal died so that his father might live and to protect Emma and Henry. Rumple murdering Emma to bring his son back would be unforgivable in Neal’s eyes. It would never result in the happy reunion for father and son that Rumple craves. I would’ve thought Rumple being such a clever man would know this. Neal would probably kill his own father before letting him harm the mother of his child.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
November 20, 2014 at 11:15 am #291121KebParticipantYou’re absolutely right about Neal, and you’re right that Rumple WOULD hurt Emma. I just don’t think he generally wants to. Not the way, say, he wants to hurt Hook or even Regina. He’s downright vicious against people who he believes have hurt him, and he is capable of cruelty/murder to innocent people who get in the way of his goals (poor Honora). In general though, he seems content to ignore anyone who isn’t involved in his plans in some way (which, okay, is most people).
And he even seems to sympathize a bit with other people’s victims (reminding Regina that she did kill off an entire village, yanno, maybe not the best way to win their love, the way he talks to Tamara before killing her, and perhaps his comment about not betraying Storybrooke to DQ after all…), though rarely enough to help them if there’s nothing in it for him. He is, as he told Emma, fundamentally selfish…even his loves for Bae and Belle have been selfish in their expression at times, despite the fact that there’s no question he truly loves them and is capable of being selfless for them.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
November 20, 2014 at 3:22 pm #291128WickedRegalParticipantThough some may disagree with the Rumple being the “Devil” quote….the way he managed to manipulate the truth into seeming like it being Emma’s choice, but knowing full well she’d do what he wanted….that’s very devilish. Not to mention he single handily created almost every villain we’ve seen so far…
And in all honesty, though few may disagree….the only people I can say is certainly safe from Rumple’s on going road to power is Belle, probably Henry, and maybe Regina…..Now Belle is a certain…Henry, I’m not too sure how Rumple feels about this, and Regina has the slimmest chance more than anyone else, because as Lana Parrilla recently stated “Rumple and Regina share an emotional scene in his car”, and also that they’re relationship can be seen as familial….heck, she was supposed to have been the daughter he had with Cora.
Emma…there are two things I can come up with. Either Rumple just totally disregarded the fact she was his son’s baby mama/true love and the child, he himself assigned to break the curse….or he was left with truly no choice considering Emma may just very well be the most powerful powerhouse in Storybrooke, and could have instantly filled the hat up.
Sorry if I’m just babbling…I truly am just confused about this show now….No idea what’s happening.
Only thing I know now is….#PoorBelle
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
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