410: Deleted Scene

Well at least we now know what another dwarf did during the curse (though the last 10 years are a mystery unless Ingrid employed Dopey as staff).

Sneezy ran the Dark Star pharmacy/General store.
Dopey sold ice cream.
Grumpy was a hospital janitor.
Sleepy was a hospital security guard

What do you think Happy, Bashful and Doc did during the curse? Doc might have been a GP.

I LOVE the deleted scene that was released today!  Dopey was Frostied!!!

The first thing that jumped out to me was the fact that Regina does not know who Ingrid is!  To me this is a huge clue that continues to point to Regina as one who has been the victim of memory removal/deletion, memories  that have yet to be replaced!!!  The memory of Ingrid and Helga was erased from the collective memories and records of Arendale but not from the Enchanted Forest…remember their pictures were in the record book that Emma looked at in Storybrooke. Regina was surprised to find someone in Storybrooke that she did not know (also occured with Owen and his dad).  Regina should know who Ingrid is but she doesn’t.  Perhaps some of Regina’s memories have been removed.  Maybe that is why we have a rock troll statue near The Rabbit Hole…perhaps some other surrogate parent besides Ingrid knew how to use those violet crystal stones.

The writers are so amazing.  One of their greatest ability is that of embedding clues so that when one goes back and rewatches previous episodes the clue trail is very evident.  They are also very good at embedding clues that can have multiple meanings…thus generating much debate among the fan base as to what the clues mean.  For me, this is one of the best parts of the show…playing the game with the writers, something that just a decade ago would have been very difficult but with twitter has turned into a dynamic ongoing game…follow the cryptic clues…follow the trail interactions between writer and viewer.  We know that the writers have said that ships are not their top priority…hope, redemption and family coming together and finding one another is the major arc of the entire show, which brings me back to this deleted scene that was released today.

I strongly believe that there are still family members on this show who do not know who they truly are and have not yet been united and restored to their original relationships.  I don’t think this story arc is an afterthought as I see clues going back to the very first episode and the very first season.  When I saw the deleted scene a short while ago, with the birthday cake sitting on the shelf I just started smiling and then laughing.  Just last night, I had been talking with friends about Happy Birthday and Frozen, cakes and Frosty the Snowman and how I thought they tied in together to point to a yet untold story.  Seeing the Happy Birthday cake this morning just made me smile.

I’ve been kicking around the whole happy birthday thing for quite a while.  We’ve had multiple “birthday scenes” on this show, some involving live baby birth and some that were “Happy Birthday” cake/and or presents scenes.

Babies/Moms “Happy” Birthday scenes – most were not very happy 

(baby loss) -Snow White giving birth to baby Emma, holding her in her arms and then sending her to the wardrobe to give the baby her best chance.</li>
(almost baby loss) – Snow White giving birth to baby Neal just to have Zelena steal him and use him to try to cast her second chance spell.</li>
(almost baby loss) – Ashley/Cinderella right after giving birth to Alexandra and daddy putting slippers on his princess. Ashley who was going to have her baby taken by Rump but Emma saved the day.  Cinderella lied to Rumple saying she was pregnant with twins.</li>
(baby loss)  Emma giving birth to Henry in jail (sad real memories where she does not hold him and gives him away to give him his best chance)</li>
(baby loss) Emma giving birth to Henry in jail (happy fake memories where she does hold him and keeps him and raises him)</li>
(baby abandonment on side of rode) – Cora giving birth to Zelena and abandoning Zelena on a road in the woods so that CORA can have HER best chance.</li>

“Happy Birthday” scenes involving the birthday – 

Emma – pilot episode – wishing on the blue star candle stuck in her birthday cupcake.</li>
Henry – Rumple’s dream – Henry in shop surrounded by family singing happy birthday and there is a birthday cake/candles…Henry picks a wand present and Rumple turns him into a porceline figurine which he then proceeds to shatter (Zelena also was porcelined and shattered) and we have just had a shattered sight spell.</li>
Snow’s birthday – surprise present from Johanna…tiara…the Queen is Dead…sad, sad, sad.</li>

“Happy” Birthdays that we have not seen but have been referred to or babies shown…and most were not very happy.

Baby Regina – We have never seen baby Regina’s birth, only her baby naming ceremony (which we have also seen baby Neal’s and he was named after a Beloved deceased father of Henry.
Baby Snow – We have never seen baby Snow’s birth…we only know that she was born in the harshest of winters and ironically her Storybrooke coma patient husband David was “fake found” by Regina, in the coldest of conditions and would have been buried in a Snow Drift, a phrase that later shows up as an episode title that has a new timeline created involving David and his fiance Kathryn taking a buggy ride down a very bumpy, Rocky Road…the name of the ice cream that Robin and Roland and Emma have eaten.)  I think we all expected to see something about Snow’s birth in this Frozen arc.  I don’t think they have shown it yet because her birth ties in with Regina’s lost happy ending.
Baby Baelfire – son of Mila and Rumple  but raised on his own, with Darling family, by Hook for a time.
Baby David and secret twin brother James who was givin to King George and wife. Then we have an adult switch of David for James.
Wooden Puppet Pinnochio carved and then born straight to boy age – who was animated by the blue fairy.
Baby Red whose Granny lied and was told Mommy was dead and stolen and raised by Granny Lucas
Baby twins Nicholas and Ava who were the result of a one time encounter between Dorrie (memory loss fish??? lol) and woodcutter/towtruck guy with magic compass.
Baby Philip – surprise unheard of second child of returned from the underworld Philip and once Cora controlled, Mommy and Me group leader Aurora 2.0. who at one time were all flying monkey’s of Zelenas …literally and probably figuratively at least as far as Cora is concerned.

Fake Pregnancy – 
We also had the fake pregnant thieving Emma (wearing same dress fabric as Mary Margaret wore on date with Dr. Whale) and Neal/Baelfire.

Unverified identity of babybump – 
Assumed to be baby Roland – thieving Robin Hood stealing a fairy wand to use on Marian the pregnant sick wife stolen from Sherrif of Nottingham. – YUCK)
I think “Happy Birthday” is a nod to  Frosty the Snowman  and his repeated rebooted birthday and memory loss.

I’ve also been kicking around the word “Frosty” that we have heard several times throughout the four seasons.  Last night the words Frosty and Happy Birthday smashed together with Frozen’s, ” Do you want to build a Snow Man” song and I was right back as a kid remembering the story of Frosty the Snowman.

As a child I hated the ending of Frosty the Snowman, not because Frosty melted and left a big puddle in the garden filled greenhouse but because when the magical hat is placed on the puddle, Frosty is reborn and he says, “Happy Birthday!”  This made me so sad because I realized Frosty was beginning all over again and I knew that he had no memories of Karen and their time together.  At the beginning of the show he came to life he said Happy Birthday and then went through this dialogue of what all he can do and how great it is to be alive.  The second time the hat is placed on his head he says the exact same things…he started over again.  When he comes back to life again at the end of the show it is with the same words.  I always felt so sad at the end because I knew his new start meant no memories.

I believe all the deleted scenes this year are in and of themselves a clue…not that the clues are just in the scenes, which I think they are…but the biggest clue is the fact that there are deleted scenes…which we are shown almost weekly, which continue to point to the fact that repeatedly we find people with erased…deleted….memories…memories that fill in missing pieces of the story.  I think the deleted scenes are a clue that we have someone in Storybrooke who still has had  erased memories , and I believe that person is Regina and also Snow.  I think this story arc has been planned from the beginning because the clues go all the way back to Season 1.

I have felt for quite a while that we have so many clues that point to Regina actually being Snow’s birthmother like in the original Snow White fairytale where the evil queen was Snow White’s mother, not stepmother.  I think that the biggest suprise that could possibly happen is to find out that by Regina casting the curse she actually put into motion the actions that would eventually bring back her lost life…her forgotten memories and the family that has been erased from her memories. I think this is why they had her “commit adultry” with Robin Hood….because it wasn’t adultry… just like Mary Margaret and David, despite their fake replaced/deleted removed memories could not stay away from each other even though David was fake memory “married” to Kathryn.  Regina and Robin Hood are already married and don’t remember (that green ring that she wears just like Mary Margaret did hmmmm).   Back to the Frosty/Happy Birthday clues.

Frosty #1 – Snow/Frosty – When Red found Snow in the henhouse, Snow gave her the name Frosty.  Red is like….hmmmm…nope…not your name.  Seriously, the only person that came to my mind at that moment was Frosty the Snowman.  A woman named Snow gives the name Frosty, who is a snowman made of Snow…and at the time it felt funny and silly.  Snow then gave the names Mary and Margaret which turn out to be the two names she goes by when she is reborn into Storybrooke.

Anna/Joan – We recently had a nod to this scene when Anna gave the name Joan to David…a “code” name because of a” secret mission”…which turned out to involve lots of lost memories, fake hate feelings,  as well as erasing the story of two people from all of Arendale’s records…Ingrid and her sister.  David is like….hmmmm….nope.  Joan is obviously a nod to scene in Frozen where Anna is singing the song, “Do you want to build a Snowman” and the picture of Joan of Arc on the wall.  Joan of Arc was burned at the stake and what do you know, Snow was burned at the stake not too long ago in the Back to the Future episode.   Hmmmm it really makes me go back and look again at that scene in the henhouse…Frosty.  I don’t think it is a coincidence that now in the fourth season, we have a story line that has had several people frozen, a huge monster snowman, erased, deleted, replaced, fake hate feelings etc.</li>
Emma/Leia – Emma also gives a fake name in her Back to the Future excursion and Blue is like…naaah…not your name – and we have a knocked out Marian…a wife returning from the dead which sounds amazing like the whole Kathryn coming back from the dead thing.  There are so many cross connections it could make one dizzy.

Birthday #1 – Emma’s…the candle..the blue star…the wish.   Emma, it turns out is one of the people who not only does not know who she really is but has had memories purposefully removed from her, twice, good memories once by Regina (removed and replaced) returned when the curse broke, and memories removed and returned using a violet memory crystal stone by Ingrid.

Belle and the violet stone.  We first saw this violet stone when Belle was trying to regain the memories of the loss of her mother …(clearing throat)…regain the memories of the loss of her mother!
Belle and her memory wiping father – We also had another storyline where Belle’s father tried to remove her memories (to keep her from the man she loved) by forcing her across the town line and then if that were not enough…
Regina creates Racey Lacey –  Regina returned Belle’s cursed memories when Belle became black and blue Racey Lacey.   Has anyone else ever noticed that huge hunk of black lace that was plastered to Regina’s forehead in the very first pilot episode!  Yes, I believe Regina while still in the Enchanted Forest…Mist Haven (has anyone else ever noticed how the mist and Cora sort of show up at the same time) was a victim of deleted memories.  I’m thinking that Daniel to her just might be like Kathryn was to David…not really her true love.
Birthday #2 – Henry’s birthday in Rumple’s dream.Everyone is gathered around and singing Happy Birthday…he has  a cake…he picks a present…then Rumple turns him into a porceline figurine and shatters him.  Henry is also a boy who did not know who his parents were and a person who had his memories purposefully removed and replaced when he lived for a year in New York.  His memories were returned when he touched the book and believed in magic but the interesting scene to me is the deleted scene where Henry is asking Rumple to return his fake memories…so that he will be happy again.

Birthday #3 – Snow’s –  We have one more birthday…and it is Snow’s.  On the episode, The Queen is Dead, it is Snow’s birthday and she has a present with her tiara and the story unfolds of her mother’s death and Cora’s blue fairy shapeshifting and her triumph over Eva and her promise that she will turn Snow’s heart as black as coal and she will destroy Eva’s legacy. These writers are masterful at the use of repetitive patterns when it comes to clue giving.  I don’t think it is accidental that all this just happened to take place on Snow’s birthday.  I think Snow thinks she knows who she is but in actuality she too does not know her true parentage and has had memories that have been erased.

Last night we had Regina say a very important line that went something along the lines of Snow keeping her from her first love and so she is going to repay her by taking her baby.  We have another story of someone who destroyed the love between a man and a woman and that person was Eva…who tattled on Cora’s pregnancy with Zalena and the end result is that Cora lost Leopold, this is why Cora wanted to destroy Eva and her legacy.  I think part of this destruction involved Regina….and I think it is possible that Regina was actually Eva’s child (Leopold not the father) who was procured for her by Rumple. Perhaps Zelena was the only baby she could have and she was not able to have anymore.  She would be desperate to procure a baby.  What if it turns out that Eva and Cora were sisters…and this whole show has been a Tale of Two Sisters.  It would explain her abuse of Regina…her despising her.  Who knows…maybe Prince Henry and Princess Eva got together and made baby Regina…or maybe even fake Prince Jonathan…and then Regina is  raised by her Evil Step/Adopted mother Cora.

Then Regina falls in love with Robin Hood and wants to run away with him …never be a queen….be a wife and mom.  They have a secret marriage in the woods and baby Snow is conceived.  Something goes wrong….Cora….Cora….Cora….and then Snow is ripped away from Regina….raised by Eva her grandmother.  Regina and Robin get their memories deleted and BAM!  It’s a whole new show.

Maybe Regina will find a clue in that messy vault…..I sure hope she finds that happy ending!

I haven’t posted enough to figure out how to use the multiple quote so I will try to label my responses.

1. nealfanforever wrote:

he first thing that jumped out to me was the fact that Regina does not know who Ingrid is! To me this is a huge clue that continues to point to Regina as one who has been the victim of memory removal/deletion, memories that have yet to be replaced!!! The memory of Ingrid and Helga was erased from the collective memories and records of Arendale but not from the Enchanted Forest…remember their pictures were in the record book that Emma looked at in Storybrooke

RG-Why would Regina ever know Ingrid???? First off, Arendelle and the EF are two separate kingdoms and Ingrid never ruled, she spent most of her time in the urn. Second, Ingrid went briefly to the EF to see Rumple and that’s it. It’s not like Regina knows the name of every single human in the EF…and again,…Ingrid wasn’t in the EF

nealfanforever – That’s true, it is possible that Regina didn’t know her but because she is in the  record books that were in Enchanted Forest it seemed that she would have known of her.  Now that you mention it David and Mary Margaret did have a big pile of Storybrooke record books so that is a big bunch of people. On the other hand, if there is no way that Regina could know every person then why would she seem so surprised to find someone she did not know? If it is not a nod to memory loss then it is most likely a nod to people being in Storybrook and/ or the Enchanted Forest that travelled there in a way that was covert, such as the silver slippers. In the Evil Queen episode there is a merchant who appears to have on silver slippers. Those slippers were around for a long time and someone could come and go secretively.

2.nealfanforever wrote:

We know that the writers have said that ships are not their top priority…hope, redemption and family coming together and finding one another is the major arc of the entire show, which brings me back to this deleted scene that was released today.

RG – …and you believe them? Cute.

nealfanforever – I do believe them after they killed off Neal.  What seemed obvious to us was not the direction they were going.  Neals death was so sad and I asked myself if I wanted to keep watching.  I decided that I did and that I would hold ships differently from that point on.  I read a lot of the interviews and I believe that they are first and foremost after the redemption and restoration of the original Snow White family.

3.nealfanforever wrote:

I’ve been kicking around the whole happy birthday thing for quite a while. We’ve had multiple “birthday scenes” on this show, some involving live baby birth and some that were “Happy Birthday” cake/and or presents scenes.

RG – And TV shows NEVER have birthday scenes right? They aren’t a natural moment in human existence?

nealfanforever – That is true but these writers include details like that for a reason.  My reason may not be the correct reason but they always have a reason.

4. nealfanforever wrote:

I think “Happy Birthday” is a nod to Frosty the Snowman and his repeated rebooted birthday and memory loss.

RG– …what

nealfanforever – Whenever Frosty has the magical hat put on his head the first words out of his mouth are “Happy Birthday!”  His life starts over with a fresh slate.

5. nealfanforever wrote:

I believe all the deleted scenes this year are in and of themselves a clue…not that the clues are just in the scenes, which I think they are…but the biggest clue is the fact that there are deleted scenes…which we are shown almost weekly, which continue to point to the fact that repeatedly we find people with

RG – Except they aren’t weekly. They are the definition of sporadic. And we never got them this way before S4. And not all the deleted scenes are shown. And there is always the question of canon, which Adam tosses back and forth whenever really pressed. Also…every single show in the history of ever has deleted scenes. They get put on DVDs all the time

nealfanforever – That’s why I said almost weekly…yes, they have been sporadic.  Because we have never gotten them this way before is the very reason I think they are a clue.  I also think they could be a nod to some deleted scenes that did not make it into the Disney classic Snow White…especially the scenes that had been developed for Prince Charming.

 

6. nealfanforever wrote:

I think part of this destruction involved Regina….and I think it is possible that Regina was actually Eva’s child (Leopold not the father)

RG – Um. No. The writers have stated Henry was…and they cast a Latino actor to play Latina Lana’s father

nealfanforever – I think it is very likely that Henry is Regina’s father.  I just don’t think Cora is the mother.  Prince Henry and Princess Eva knew each other and were together in the same castle the day that Cora the Miller’s daughter showed up.  Eva might have found herself pregnant by someone other than Leopold.  We’ve learned that Eva had a dark side.  Regina and Snow talk about this when Snow learns the truth about her mom.  Snow wonders out loud what could have happened to change her.  Perhaps giving away or having a child stolen away completely changed Eva’s personality into the person Snow knew.

7. nealfanforever wrote:

They have a secret marriage in the woods and baby Snow is conceived. Something goes wrong….Cora….Cora….Cora….and then Snow is ripped away from Regina….raised by Eva her grandmother. Regina and Robin get their memories deleted and BAM! It’s a whole new show.

RG – Literally not possible timeline wise

  nealfanforever – In the stable boy episode Cora alludes to Regina’s age and how everyone else her age is already married.

Cora: Well, you’re getting a little old for fun. Who’s going to want to marry you when you behave like a commoner?
Henry I: Honey, please leave her alone.
Cora: Stop coddling her. She’s becoming an old maid. All the other girls her age are married. I had such high hopes.

I don’t think the writers have ever given us a concrete age for Regina in the Stable Boy episode so I do think it is possible. In Once Upon a Time Wonderland there is an interesting scene with Cora and Anastasia. Cora says that Anastasia is the type of daughter she would choose and then it is like she catches herself and sort of says as an after thought, “If one could choose that sort of thing.” I think the only child Cora gave birth to was Zelena. She very well may have become cursed like King George or she may not have been able to bear another child. When Rumple saw Regina he talked about the two of them being reunited and how portable she had been the last time he saw her. I think Rumple procured a baby for Cora…and I think that baby was Regina. This would mean that Zelena was not Regina’s biological sister which is also possible as Zelena got Regina’s blood just like she got Rumple’s blood to open the blood lock.