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May 9, 2015 at 6:01 pm #304356SlurpeezParticipant
Isaac saying “This quill and Ink CAN only change a past it has created.” is more than just an impression. It’s a confirmation that ANYTHING, even death, can be changed by the quill & ink that originally created it. Why? Because Isaac said it CAN. Written word now trumps any rules of magic IT has created.
I see your strong reasoning here. The pen that Isaac is currently using to write his book, Heroes and Villains, can only change the things Isaac has written with it. If Isaac wanted to, he could use his pen to write brand new characters into existence or write them out again, because they would’ve been created with this particular pen. We don’t know who wrote Rumple and Baelfire’s story, or which quill and ink were used, but we can conclude it probably wasn’t Isaac, since he didn’t become the author until fairly late in the game, probably around the time that Snow and Charming had defeated the Evil Queen. So, if the original quill and ink used to write down Rumple and Baelfire’s story could be found, then presumably an author could potentially rewrite that particular history. My bet is on Henry taking up the mighty quill as the next author. Henry could potentially be motivated to try and write his dad back into original story using the original pen.
Side question: Who, if anyone, was recording the events of the missing year in the Enchanted Forest? Were those stories even recorded? If so, then maybe there is some other book of stories out there of what happened in the EF during the missing year, which is when Neal traded his life for his father’s. If there were a book, then maybe that author could be convinced to alter the events. Or maybe Henry, who I think is the next author, could find whichever quill was used to write that story and then change it.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
May 9, 2015 at 6:01 pm #304357MatthewPaulModeratorI get that many of us will see all the recent references about NealFire differently.
Some will see it as A&E finally acknowledging his death and firmly cementing in concrete.
Some will see it as a foreshadowing of things to come with a possibility of resurrecting NealFire.
However, what I don’t get is how something so important as Isaac saying that a quill & ink can, in fact, change the past it has created can be overlooked and discounted so easily.
Those words were extremely important and they literally made me stop and say “Woah!” out loud. It’s a game changer and I don’t think A&E would have thrown those words out so cavalierly. Not when they themselves have said this finale is a game changer.
The biggest snag of any Neal returning theories is MRJ’s lack of availability. They know he’s attached to another show (“Game of Silence), which just got a series pickup last night actually, so they can’t be planning to bring him back when they know they can’t get the actor back. Theoretically they could be writing in mind that “Game of Silence” could fail, and make MRJ available again, but that’s still not a sure thing, and MRJ could book more projects after that. Now the other option would be bringing Baelfire back in a de-aged form with Dylan returning, but I have my doubts they’ll even do that. And this is the 2nd finale in a row that’s dodged an opportunity to bring him back. During Emma and Hook’s time travelling escapes last year, Rumple suggested to Emma that he could prevent Neal’s death, but Emma insisted that he couldn’t take his heroic sacrifice away from him and that Rumple had to drink the forgetting potion he cooked up. Many viewed the scene as out of character for Rumple, but because the writers refused to bring his son back, they had to write it as is. And now Rumple is reinforcing that “magic can’t bring back the dead”, which Isaac nodded and agreed with. I’m with Phee and RG that this was just their way of addressing the elephant in the room.
May 9, 2015 at 6:18 pm #304358SlurpeezParticipantThe biggest snag of any Neal returning theories is MRJ’s lack of availability.
This is true. But sometimes even actors who’re on other shows become available for guest appearances (e.g. Christopher Gorham appearing in multiple episodes of S3b when he was on the show Covert Affairs). It just depends on whether the actor in question MRJ would even want to come back if A&E asked him back. They’ve said on the record they would love to work with him again, but whether he’d want to work with them again is the real question in my mind. We don’t know what the true circumstances surrounding MRJ’s departure from the show were. We can hypothesize that the writers decided to go in a different direction, and so MRJ left. Or maybe MRJ asked to leave like Meghan Ory did when her character, Ruby, didn’t get the kind of screen time or attention she’d been led to believe she’d get.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
May 9, 2015 at 6:19 pm #304359TheGoldenKeyParticipantI love that you get me Slurpeez and see where I’m coming from with this. 🙂 Great post BTW. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
May 9, 2015 at 6:54 pm #304362MatthewPaulModeratorThe biggest snag of any Neal returning theories is MRJ’s lack of availability.
This is true. But sometimes even actors who’re on other shows become available for guest appearances (e.g. Christopher Gorham appearing in multiple episodes of S3b when he was on the show Covert Affairs). It just depends on whether the actor in question MRJ would even want to come back if A&E asked him back. They’ve said on the record they would love to work with him again, but whether he’d want to work with them again is the real question in my mind. We don’t know what the true circumstances surrounding MRJ’s departure from the show were. We can hypothesize that the writers decided to go in a different direction, and so MRJ left. Or maybe MRJ asked to leave like Meghan Ory did when her character, Ruby, didn’t get the kind of screen time or attention she’d been led to believe she’d get.
Covert Affairs is a cable show, so there’s more leeway. Especially when they film less episodes per year compared to network shows. If Neal were to return on the show in some capacity, which is still somewhat possible, chances are it would be for a flashback. Neal’s not the type of character you can resurrect for like one or two guest star appearances and then just randomly leave when MRJ’s not available again. He’s Henry’s father, and it would be in his character to stick around. I’ve seen suggestions of sneaking a Neal resurrection in the series finale if possible, but personally I would see that as an even bigger discredit to the character. “Oh we killed him off for so many episodes, but see he’s back just for this ONE final episode. You forgive us now, right?” And yeah, we don’t know how MRJ would really feel about wanting to come back. That’s the thing about any actor on the show. Unless they have the actors contracted as a series regular, they are completely at the mercy of their other commitments. Just look at actors like Jamie Dornan and Sebastian Stan, who keep getting more work and are even more in demand than they were back when they started on OUAT.
May 9, 2015 at 8:09 pm #304365TheWatcherParticipantHonestly, I personally wouldn’t want MRJ back for an extended time on this show. In my head, they could wait until the very final episode, and have MRJ film one scene and one scene alone. Have Nyx resurrect him as a reward for Henry and he and Henry go off happily. That’s all I would ask for and all I would need. Would I want it to be well written? Yeah. Would I care if it wasn’t? Nope.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICMay 9, 2015 at 10:18 pm #304368SlurpeezParticipantI love that you get me Slurpeez and see where I’m coming from with this. 🙂 Great post BTW. 🙂
Thanks! Loved reading your post, too.
Honestly, I personally wouldn’t want MRJ back for an extended time on this show. In my head, they could wait until the very final episode, and have MRJ film one scene and one scene alone. Have Nyx resurrect him as a reward for Henry and he and Henry go off happily. That’s all I would ask for and all I would need. Would I want it to be well written? Yeah. Would I care if it wasn’t? Nope.
That’s what I would want, too. Just let Henry have his dad. One guest appearance by MRJ would be more than enough to accomplish that task at the very end of it all.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
May 9, 2015 at 10:19 pm #304369RumplesGirlKeymasterHowever, what I don’t get is how something so important as Isaac saying that a quill & ink can, in fact, change the past it has created can be overlooked and discounted so easily.
Neal’s death was NOT created by the ink and pen, however. It had nothing to do with something being written in the book. And to our knowledge, Neal’s death was never recorded in the book, thus while Isaac’s statement is intriguing it has little to nothing to do with Neal.
ETA: Furthermore at the time of Neal’s death the Author was trapped in the book, having only recorded up to the Curse. He was unable to influence or change anything as his role as author. And we know there can only be one at a time.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 9, 2015 at 10:21 pm #304370SlurpeezParticipantNeal’s death was created by the ink and pen, however. It had nothing to do with something being written in the book. And to our knowledge, Neal’s death was never recorded in the book, thus while Isaac’s statement is intriguing it has little to nothing to do with Neal.
Unless the events of the missing year in the EF are recorded somewhere, somehow, in some book. Plus, there’s always Nyx. Who knows? I may be way off, but still, one can dream.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
May 9, 2015 at 10:27 pm #304371RumplesGirlKeymasterNeal’s death was created by the ink and pen, however. It had nothing to do with something being written in the book. And to our knowledge, Neal’s death was never recorded in the book, thus while Isaac’s statement is intriguing it has little to nothing to do with Neal.
Unless the events of the missing year in the EF are recorded somewhere, somehow, in some book. Plus, there’s always Nyx. Who knows? I may be way off, but still, one can dream.
Of course one can. It’s what I said a page back:
Idon’t really think that anyone was really under the belief that the Author could suddenly change/break the laws of magic. It’s more that the rules that the Onciverse operate under are incredibly…non existent. Or rather, they exist but there are a million loopholes, usually centered around a plot device that suddenly and inexplicably allows a character to break a rule that was heretofore unbreakable for no other reason than that the out-of-story show runners want it to be broken. A magical pen that can change memories and situations and apparently even history (in which Regina is not the EQ and Snow loved James and in this case that Bae died as a young boy but being proud of his papa) is keeping with the Onceiverse’s aversion to strict laws of magic and their own world building while simultaneously speaking to its ability to embrace plot devices as way to change what the show runners desire, willy nilly style.
The writers could literally create any loophole they wanted because their magical world is so flimsy and unstructed. But—come on—have many times have we said this: there is always a way, there is no *will*
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love" -
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