Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Four › 4×22 “Operation Mongoose,” part 2 › 4×22 “Operation Mongoose,” part 2 spoilers › 421/422 Script Teases
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May 6, 2015 at 6:51 pm #304057SlurpeezParticipant
The thing with Rumple is he wants his loved ones to be safe, and for him “safe” is as far away from danger as possible.
I don’t doubt that Rumple wants to keep Belle safe, because he loves her. However, his failure to include her in the trip to Neverland is a good example of him wanting to keep her out of harm’s way, despite her protests otherwise. His failure to include her didn’t take into consideration what she wanted. Rumple may not have wanted her along because he knew the sort of danger they’d be up against, but his failure to include her did not honor Belle’s wishes. Belle wanted to go along on the journey to see Neverland and to save Henry and instead was kept back in SB and effectively told not to worry her sweet little head. I think Belle was very hurt by that tactic Rumple used, and it made her doubt herself. I can’t imagine Prince Charming making Snow White stay at home while he went off to do battle in Neverland. Charming and Snow are more equals than Rumple and Belle are, having fought side-by-side to take back the kingdom from the Evil Queen and King George. Rumple, by contrast, made Belle stay at home, rather than coming along on the quest to save Henry, to fight at his side. The problem with that is we’ve seen Belle on her own be intelligent and adventurous when she used her book smarts to save Prince Philip. Mulan encouraged Belle’s warrior spirit; Rumple did not.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
May 6, 2015 at 6:57 pm #304059RumplesGirlKeymasterI strongly disagree. Rumple is in awe of Belle, he loves her just the way she is.
We’ll see. But I think we’re purposely not seeing what Belle is like (in teasers) for this AU because she is a stay-at home housewife.
That’s possible but to be fair, the teasers of any sort almost never include Belle in any significant way.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 6, 2015 at 6:57 pm #304060SweetsParticipantThe thing with Rumple is he wants his loved ones to be safe, and for him “safe” is as far away from danger as possible.
I agree with this. Rumple is driven by fear ultimately and you can tell he would burn the world down to keep Belle safe, but that’s not what she needs or wants. Belle doesn’t want a protector, she wants a partner. And thats something I don’t think we’ve seen Rumple display in a long long time.
This AU storyline would have been the PERFECT scenario to establish that type of relationship between them. Ultimately, I hope it does, but don’t have much hope after seeing Belle in the pretty princess dress.
May 6, 2015 at 7:01 pm #304061RumplesGirlKeymasterUltimately, I hope it does, but don’t have much hope after seeing Belle in the pretty princess dress.
True BUT I’d remind you that Emma dressed in a pretty princess dress (and danced at a ball) in the last season finale and then proceeded to save herself just as the guy was coming to rescue the damsel.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 6, 2015 at 7:08 pm #304062SlurpeezParticipantI agree with this. Rumple is driven by fear ultimately and you can tell he would burn the world down to keep Belle safe, but that’s not what she needs or wants. Belle doesn’t want a protector, she wants a partner. And thats something I don’t think we’ve seen Rumple display in a long long time.
Gosh, this! Rumple is a coward, while Belle is the real hero. He wants to be brave, like Charming, but he’s not. That is why it’s interesting that in the AU, Belle is the one fluffing Rumple’s ego, calling him a real hero. It seems like she is just feeding him lines that he’s always wanted to hear from a woman. In truth through, Rumple uses magic as a crutch, because he’s scared of being powerless. At the town line, he told Belle he needed the power to keep him, to keep them, safe. Belle, by contrast, is the truly brave one, not Rumple. How many times has Belle done the heroic thing, believing that if she did the brave thing, bravery would follow? Belle saved her people. Belle saved Philip. Belle said she lost sight of herself trying to help Rumple find himself. Belle is the strongest and bravest version of herself when she is on her own. The strongest I’ve seen Belle is when she finally gathered up her courage and banished Rumple, who was still quivering in fear at the thought of having no magic. Rumple kept trying to get Belle to put down the dagger, to relinquish all the power back over to him, so that he could have control again, but Belle banished him. And then he snuck around Belle’s back, and twice tricked her, all so that he could get his power back.
True BUT I’d remind you that Emma dressed in a pretty princess dress (and danced at a ball) in the last season finale and then proceeded to save herself just as the guy was coming to rescue the damsel.
True. I hope we see Belle getting in on some of the action, despite being dressed like a princess.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
May 6, 2015 at 7:19 pm #304064RumplesGirlKeymasterGosh, this! Rumple is a coward, while Belle is the real hero. He wants to be brave, like Charming, but he’s not
But Rumple knew this at one point. S2 phone to Belle when Cora was coming to kill him. It perfectly exemplifies that he knew that she was the real hero.
So part of me is still wondering if this might be the Author’s insertion. He is from the 1960s after all. Regina’s, Snow’s and Emma’s stories are better if they are reserve of who they are in the Real! SB! world…but Rumple’s story is better if Belle is super supportive and Rumple’s loving wife
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 6, 2015 at 7:50 pm #304065nevermoreParticipantWe’ll see. But I think we’re purposely not seeing what Belle is like (in teasers) for this AU because she is a stay-at home housewife.
I tend to disagree on the assessment that Rumple somehow doesn’t respect women (or respects them less than men — my sense is that he is pretty equal opportunity in his disdain). Based on his relationship with Cora, after she had achieved a certain magic level, he treated her as an equal, recognized and I think admired her scheming and abilities. Of course, his relationship with Cora wasn’t based on any kind of B&B canon, which is itself a messy can of worms in terms of gender relations.
As to the seemingly disparaging attitude to housewives, or equating a housewife to a “Stepford wife”, lets maybe pause before we go down that route, no? If we are to make a feminist argument, then we should probably defend a woman’s right to choose, as well as pay attention to the economic/social constraints that produce the necessity of one person staying at home. The problem isn’t that Belle or Milah find themselves in the domestic sphere. Disparaging said domestic sphere is, actually, a deeply patriarchal position — this is precisely what enables a type of power relations that relegates women to the sidelines. The problem is that this isn’t what they want for themselves.
Also, let’s not confuse Belle and Milah. Milah to me comes across as a woman who got saddled with a family before she wanted one. She’s out in the tavern drinking and hanging out with pirates while her small child is at home cared for by Rumple. Belle’s actually an intellectual, her interests are more of the quiet scholar/explorer type. Problem is, OUAT did not do well with developing this female scholar archetype, which is quite sad, it would have been interesting and a nice alternative to the sassy Regina/tomboy Emma/motherly yet tough Snow etc.
On the other hand, relationships involve compromises, and things like potential danger are things to be negotiated together (Lets take the example of a husband in the army, being deployed to a war zone, and the partner, not trained in the military, wants to come along. I would imagine that might involve some negotiation. This isn’t about gender equality, it’s about competence. If the partner in question is Mulan, this would be a very different conversation.) I could imagine Belle working as a kind of field-scholar from the sidelines, essentially gathering intelligence on Ogre culture. 🙂
May 6, 2015 at 8:09 pm #304066RumplesGirlKeymasterProblem is, OUAT did not do well with developing this female scholar archetype, which is quite sad, it would have been interesting and a nice alternative to the sassy Regina/tomboy Emma/motherly yet tough Snow etc.
Yes Belle became the “Sexy Librarian” in all the stereotypical 1980s Hollywood nerd-boy fantasy “glory”
I am honestly waiting for a scene of Belle leaning over, top two buttons undone and chewing on a pencil.
I could imagine Belle working as a kind of field-scholar from the sidelines, essentially gathering intelligence on Ogre culture
A la the Yaugui (I can never spell that right…)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"May 6, 2015 at 8:18 pm #304068nevermoreParticipantYes Belle became the “Sexy Librarian” in all the stereotypical 1980s Hollywood nerd-boy fantasy “glory” I am honestly waiting for a scene of Belle leaning over, top two buttons undone and chewing on a pencil.
You forgot Looking-Over-the-Frame-of-Entirely-Useless-Glasses (TM). 😉 And as much as we can blame this on Rumple, he had nothing to do with it.
A la the Yaugui (I can never spell that right…)
Precisely.
May 6, 2015 at 9:02 pm #304071SlurpeezParticipantBut Rumple knew this at one point. S2 phone to Belle when Cora was coming to kill him. It perfectly exemplifies that he knew that she was the real hero.
I think Rumple still knows that Belle is a hero and he deeply admires her bravery. But Rumple having Isaac write Belle as stroking his ego seems to be the fulfillment of some deep-seated desire Rumple has to be the hero, to feel like a brave man who can protect his loved ones. Remember how Milha scoffed at him for not fighting in the ogres’ war. Now in the AU, Rumple is a knight who slays ogres and whose wife, Belle, calls him the true hero. He is hearing the words from Belle he always wanted to hear from a woman, whether that was Milha or Belle. And yes, I’m aware they are two very different women, but the point is that Rumple wants to be strong and brave so that he feels deserving of a woman’s admiration. It’s a deeply psychological aspect of Rumple that he’s never felt deserving of a woman’s love, which is why he has always had a hard time understanding why Belle ever fell in love with him. Milha spurned him for not fighting and dying honorably in battle “the way a man should.” While I don’t think Belle would ever chide Rumple for not fighting and dying in a bloody war the way Milha did, the point is that this AU is Rumple’s wish fulfillment of actually getting to be like Prince Charming, whom Rumple deems as being truly worthy of Snow White’s love and admiration.
In Rumple’s mind, being a man who is worthy of a woman’s love is synonymous with being strong and being able to protect a woman, if need be. But Belle doesn’t desire Rumple’s “protection” in the form of magic; in fact, she rejected him for continuing to insist on keeping the power. So, now Rumple is replacing magical power with physical strength (though I think he may still have magic) in the AU. In Rumple’s mind, not feeling weak, is paramount to feeling happy and secure, because for so long, he was unable to defend his wife and son. Remember how poor lame spinner Rumple, maimed and weak, had to beg at Hook’s feet to spare Milha’s life when he thought Hook had kidnapped her. So I think the AU is Rumple’s wish fulfillment of being the conquering hero and having the adoring wife who praises his victory.
So part of me is still wondering if this might be the Author’s insertion. He is from the 1960s after all. Regina’s, Snow’s and Emma’s stories are better if they are reserve of who they are in the Real! SB! world…but Rumple’s story is better if Belle is super supportive and Rumple’s loving wife
That could be, but I think Isaac is writing Belle the way Rumple originally wanted, but that Rumple will have a change of heart. I think Rumple is going to quickly realize how hollow it feels is to have empty flattery if Belle isn’t saying these things of her own accord. If Isaac is literally putting words in Belle’s mouth, Rumple isn’t going to want that and may even come to see the errors of his way, much the same way that Regina in Welcome to Storybrooke quickly realized having everyone be cursed in SB wasn’t all she thought it’d be.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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