Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › Season Five › 5×05 “Dreamcatcher” › 5×05 “Dreamcatcher” spoilers › 505: Sneak Peeks (1 and 2)
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October 22, 2015 at 1:41 pm #310604WickedRegalParticipant
I do wonder what Merida is supposed to do. Go raid Regina’s apple tree and play William Tell?
I’m bothered that learning to be a hero = learning to fight.
“For a true hero isn’t measured by the size of his STRENGTH, but by the Strength of his HEART!” – Zeus (Hercules)
Now that I think about it….if Emma’s trying to shape Rumple into some strong brave figure, which I don’t think I approve of because I think Belle loved Rumple for who she knew he truly was instead of what he wasn’t, shouldn’t the person “changing” Rumple be Hercules, who actually went through the whole Zero to Hero transformation.
[adrotate group="5"]"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
October 22, 2015 at 1:49 pm #310606RumplesGirlKeymaster^
Which is why I don’t think Emma’s plan is going to succeed. She’s going about it in the wrong fashion. So, Rumple won’t be able to pull that sword from the stone because how Emma trained (through Merida) Rumple to be a hero is not really what heroism is.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"October 22, 2015 at 2:20 pm #310609KebParticipantMore hope for my theory that to be a true hero, Rumple has to learn to love (again) unselfishly.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
October 22, 2015 at 2:32 pm #310616SlurpeezParticipantMore hope for my theory that to be a true hero, Rumple has to learn to love (again) unselfishly.
I think he already knows that, according to the conversation he had with Emma. Hence, the lines,
“I need to find Belle,” and “The more you justify what you’re doing, the more you push them away. And take it from me. You will always lose the ones you love the most.”
Human Rumple is a good man, and he’s self-aware. He knows that he rationalized every time he used dark magic, only it cost him both his son and Belle. Now he desires to find his wife and repair the damage that the dark one curse did to his marriage. It may be too late to save his son, but not his marriage.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
October 22, 2015 at 2:45 pm #310623RumplesGirlKeymasterI agree with both @Slurpeez and @Keb. With Keb’s theory, it would fit pretty heavily with Beauty and the Beast and how the Beast has to learn to love and be kind. But…I agree that the dialogue suggests that Rumple is already there (and I would argue that Rumple has always known how to love, he just runs from it out of fear of rejection). (I miss my complex Imp)
But in the long run, I think Emma’s plan to Heroize (new word!) Rumple is going to fail because she seems to believe that being a hero means combat bravery and while that’s certainly important, it’s not actually how the show (and hopefully most humans) would define heroism, in such limited terms, and that it’s going to take someone else to pull that sword.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"October 22, 2015 at 3:56 pm #310625KebParticipantI’m not saying that Rumple doesn’t know how to love–just that there IS a selfish element to how he expresses that love, along with the fear that makes him push it away. He did overcome his selfishness when he sacrificed his life to defeat Pan, showing that he’s capable of true love (which I’m still defining as sacrificial in the show’s portrayal), but the streak of possessiveness that he has with the people he loves shows that most of the time he’s failed.
I dunno. It’s a tricky thing because he IS a complex character who has been through a LOT and bent to suit the needs of plot in places. And omission has hurt his portrayal as well; why cut any scene that showed his loving side during 4A?
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
October 22, 2015 at 4:14 pm #310626nevermoreParticipantNow that I think about it, if we go back to Brave (the cartoon), isn’t there essentially a tension between two understandings of bravery? Merida (being young and feisty) argues that bravery is the ability to shape one’s own fate, and to make one’s choices. By contrast, more “mature” bravery involves acting with an eye to the costs and consequences of one’s actions for others. It’s a fine line between rocking the boat and capsizing it.
Both Rumple’s and Arthur’s stories hinge on the idea of “fate,” framed as a prophecy. With Rumple’s story, the origin of the whole coward label goes back to the stigma of being a deserter. Which, incidentally, was due to a prophecy (Rumple was told his son would grow up fatherless) — and I think this might parallel Arthur’s story: by trying to escape the prophecy, Rumple makes it come true. By trying to fulfill the prophecy, Arthur makes a hot mess. So there’s already this tensions of fate vs self-determination there, which I guess connects back to Brave.
What a grown up Merida (upon the completion of the cartoon’s character arc) could really offer Rumple by way of “bravery” is the willingness to accept the consequences of one’s decisions, which Rumple hasn’t always been very good at. In other words, she might teach him to stop experiencing himself as a victim — which would go a long way to helping him accept love more broadly.
October 22, 2015 at 4:21 pm #310627RumplesGirlKeymasterWhat a grown up Merida (upon the completion of the cartoon’s character arc) could really offer Rumple by way of “bravery” is the willingness to accept the consequences of one’s decisions, which Rumple hasn’t always been very good at. In other words, she might teach him to stop experiencing himself as a victim — which would go a long way to helping him accept love more broadly.
I would applaud that because it’s deep and complex and would make a nice narrative through point from season one to the present.
I just…well. I guess we will see come Sunday and onward if the show is still capable of writing deep and complex message and not rely on cliche shiny buzzworthy silliness (ie: being brave comes down to wielding this weapon and fighting and simply yelling the word BRAVE a lot)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love" -
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