6 X 01 THE SAVIOR – – What was your favorite and least favorite moments

The scenes in Rumple’s dream castle. These just seemed like a big retcon of ‘Skin Deep’. The whole point of SD was that Belle WASN’T terrified of Rumple. She was brave, she was calm, she even talked back to him. The way it was presented in this episode makes it implausible that she would ever have fallen in love with him. They didn’t need to mess with SD as it was a beautiful episode.

THIS.
They clearly need to rewatch Skin Deep, Lacey and even Heroes and Villains.

As for the Robin Hood debacle–I agree with Watcher and others who think the same. That line–which is in line with what they were saying at SDCC–was written after they saw just how badly the fandom reacted and they’re hoping everyone accepts Henry’s line and doesn’t think too hard about it.

My favourite thing was seeing Snow calling out that her name was Snow White, and Charming calling her Snow, and just…Mary Margaret is so dead and it makes me so happy.

Perhaps it’s because I went in with sub-zero expectations, but I actually thought this was one of the best episodes in quite some time. Because characters actually had conversations with each other. All the talk from the showrunners about wanting to focus more on their core characters and I was over here like, “I’ll believe that if and when I see it,” so colour me somewhat shocked that there were actual character moments in this ep.

The whole bit with Zelena looking for the feather from Roland, that had nothing to do with plot, but they actually kept it in the episode. It was a moment of development for the relationship between Regina and Zelena that she actually seemed to genuinely want to find it for her. And it also served to show how Regina’s still in the grieving process. They actually acknowledged that Robin is gone and Regina is not OK.

Regina venting to Snow about how it made her mad that Zelena lost the feather. Snow telling her to talk to Zelena about whatever the real issue is. And then they actually did end up having that conversation! Regina aired her resentment towards Zelena for her part in Robin’s death, and (this may well be my own resentment towards Zelena over Neal’s death talking but) I loved that Regina let that out and told Zelena right to her face. And then Zelena airing her own resentment over Regina ripping out the part of her that was most like her. Guys, I pretty much hate Zelena, she’s been pretty much dead to me and I’ve wanted her off my screen ever since that moment at the vault with Neal and Belle, but in this moment with Regina, I actually felt kinda sorry for Zelena, and I never thought the day would come where I’d say that.

They actually had the sisters voice their feelings and hash them out and every interaction they had in this ep felt like a geuine aspect of their relationship to me. They dedicated a significant chunk of airtime to their relationship in this ep, and granted they were working towards the result of them splitting so Zelena could shack up with EQ and move some plot along, but they could have just not had Zelena moving in with Regina to begin with, and jumped right to her with EQ, and not spent any time on the sisters development. But they actually spent airtime to show us characters discussing their feelings. They didn’t just slap them into a situation where they were buddies like nothing ever happened. And they didn’t just slap them in a situation where they were adversaries. They actually gave their relationship a little arc in this ep that made sense, to get them to where they wanted them to be.

Archie! It’s one of the things about spoilers that had made me legit happy, knowing that Archie was gonna be back, and I thought they used him well. Sure we’ve been through, “Emma has walls and blah, blah, blah,” before, but I appreciated that her parents had actually been to the town shrink to ask him to check on her, and here he was giving her advice, just like Jimminy Cricket should. It’s about freaking time!

For the first time in a long time, it felt to me like Rumple actually did genuinely care for Belle, and was willing to make her wellbeing his #1 priority. He was even willing to just tell her about Bae, and why he left, and how it was his own fault for having been afraid. And sure I’ll only really believe that Rumple can change if and when he actually does and it sticks, but I actually felt like this time he actually meant it more than ever before. And then I liked that Belle wasn’t buying it, because of so many broken promises, and she’s not just gonna go back to him. That’s exactly the reaction she should be having right now after what they’ve been through, and they gave her the agency to say “NO”. I really felt both of their persepctives were geniune, and it was important for them to both say the things they did to each other.

And then the scene between Snow and Regina. It was 3 solid minutes (including the montage scenes when Regina was still speaking) of two people just sitting on a bench having a quiet conversation about who they were, and who they are, and how far they’ve come. Since when does that happen on this show?!

Now don’t get me wrong, I could write a long list of nitpicks and things I wanna grumble about as well, (and I’m sure I’ll get into that stuff in other posts). But for the first time in ages, I finished an ep of OUAT and felt like I’d just watched actual characters on emotional journeys, instead of just ridiculous plot and people acting in unbelivable ways to service said plot. I actually went back to re-watch some scenes, and that’s something I haven’t done since probably the midway point of S3. And I actually typed a novel length post for the forum, which I haven’t been inspired to do in ages.

I’m not back on the OUAT love train, I’m not instilled with a new sense of #hope (*twitch*), but just looking at this ep in and of itself, let’s just say that I was pleasantly surprised on more than one occasion.

It’s been a long time since I disagreed with Phee (like five years) but while I agree that characters were having conversations, those conversations still have to make sense. For example

Regina venting to Snow about how it made her mad that Zelena lost the feather. Snow telling her to talk to Zelena about whatever the real issue is.

This one is inoffensive so I’m willing to let it slide but the show kept presenting Snow as someone who pops up instantly when ever Regina needs someone to talk to. As if Snow’s not a character but something Regina can just conjure up at will. How exactly did Snow know that Regina was at the vault? And later how did Snow know that Regina was sitting on that bench and needed to talk? Snow has no character motivation of her own except through Regina’s story which is frustrating. Now, the final conversation on the bench between the two was so great I really am letting this slide but the scenes feel haphazardly put together when the writers don’t explain how characters end up together in these situations. And unless Regina sent Snow a text that said “broke up with sis. bring wine” then Snow is left feeling like a plot convenience and not a person.

I loved that Regina let that out and told Zelena right to her face. And then Zelena airing her own resentment over Regina ripping out the part of her that was most like her. Guys, I pretty much hate Zelena, she’s been pretty much dead to me and I’ve wanted her off my screen ever since that moment at the vault with Neal and Belle, but in this moment with Regina, I actually felt kinda sorry for Zelena, and I never thought the day would come where I’d say that.

This argument between Zelena and Regina super bothered me. It doesn’t make any sense with what came before this season. It only makes sense in terms of what the writers want to do next, namely have the EQ and the WW strut around together as BFFLs, being all evily and wickedy. The only way this conversation/heated argument will make sense to me is if Regina realizes that she’s misplacing her anger and blame and that there’s blame to go around. Regina just blames Zelena? Why? How about her own fault: she’s the one who told Zelena to go to Hades because maybe love could change him. How about Emma–sure, Regina chose to follow her down to the Underworld –but it was still Emma’s idea in the first place. How about Hades himself? How about Robin himself? How about Cora? How about Zeus who clearly has magical restorive abilities? How about Rumple? Placing all the blame on Zelena is a cheap way to create drama, something that comes across even more when you have the out of the blue scenario of Zelena moving into Regina’s without any set up whatsoever! They literally get back from NYC/LUtS and there’s a crisis within 20 seconds but somehow Zelena knows to move into the mansion? And has her bags and stuff mostly unpacked? How? When did this conversation even happen? It did’t but the writers want to amp up the drama so that the argument is even heavier all to serve the final scene of the EQ and the WW becoming best buds. I’m all for these character conversation moments but they have to make sense and be a reflection of what came before not just set up for what’s to come next.

but I appreciated that her parents had actually been to the town shrink to ask him to check on her, and here he was giving her advice, just like Jimminy Cricket should. It’s about freaking time!

You’re right, it’s about freaking time but this is what annoys me. Where was Jimminy when Neal died? When Hook died? When Emma came up with the hairbrained solution to go to the Underworld and rescue Hook? Where was the parental concern about Emma then? But oh no! Emma’s hand shook for 20 seconds, better call the Shrink! He’s appearing now because the plot calls for it and him randomly walking through the woods with coffees feels a lot like what Snow felt for Regina–he’s there because the plot dictates it, not because it makes any sense given how the characters normally react when one of their own is upset

Phee wrote:

And then I liked that Belle wasn’t buying it, because of so many broken promises, and she’s not just gonna go back to him. That’s exactly the reaction she should be having right now after what they’ve been through, and they gave her the agency to say “NO”.

Yeah. I think that’s the point of her dream, too. It’s not meant to be an accurate retelling of events and feelings back then. It’s how she feels about the relationship now, with several years of mature hindsight.

Quote

Indeed, the subconscious is a clever thing, and it will happily slap you in the face with the truth of a matter when your guard is down while you’re alseep.

It’s been a long time since I disagreed with Phee (like five years)

Do we ever disagree on any show ever? LOL For the record, I don’t think we actually super disagree on most of this stuff, I think it’s just that my bar was set SO low that in this instance I’m kinda gobsmacked by actually liking stuff in the show again, and so am being a bit more forgiving of some details than I would typically be.

How exactly did Snow know that Regina was at the vault? And later how did Snow know that Regina was sitting on that bench and needed to talk?

At the vault I have no idea, that was just random. We only saw Regina tell Zelena that she was going to the vault, and I doubt that Zelena and Snow are txting buddies for her to have passed on that info. At the bench however, that was right outside City Hall, and I can imagine that after the vault conversation, Snow might have gone looking for Regina later to see if she’d spoken to Zelena yet, and Town Hall is a reasonable place to go looking if you’re trying to find Regina.

Snow has no character motivation of her own except through Regina’s story which is frustrating.

Snow has sadly been a whole lotta NOTHING for some time now. I think she’s a fitting person to have Regina speak to though, because of their long and sordid history. If anyone in town has the capacity to have honest emo loaded conversations with Regina, it’s a short list and Snow’s at the top of it. Of course I’d love for Snow to be an actual, interesting character again, but Ginny being given actual meaningful dialogue and screentime in this ep, I’m taking it as a baby step towards getting her properly involved again.

This argument between Zelena and Regina super bothered me. It doesn’t make any sense with what came before this season.

What super bothered me was them being turned into insta-sisters in the Underworld. That just did not sit right with me, so I’m good with it if it turns out they’re actually not all happy families with each other. This dynamic where they have issues with each other and aren’t getting along feels more truthful to me, so even if it’s a bit retcon-y, I’m actually glad that they’re backtracking.

They literally get back from NYC/LUtS and there’s a crisis within 20 seconds but somehow Zelena knows to move into the mansion? And has her bags and stuff mostly unpacked? How? When did this conversation even happen?

Agreed that it was random to suddenly have her moving in. But I can fanwank that they had a conversation immediately following Robin’s funeral, where Regina made the offer for Zelena and baby Robyn to move in with her.

You’re right, it’s about freaking time but this is what annoys me. Where was Jimminy when Neal died? When Hook died? When Emma came up with the hairbrained solution to go to the Underworld and rescue Hook?

Jimminy/Raphael should have never been demoted. There are so many times he should have been involved! Though I guess if they had a character who was an always present member of the main cast whose job is to talk sense into people, then we’d have no show. 😛 I haven’t forgiven them for forgetting he existed for so long, but regardless I’m still glad they eventually remembered that he exists, and they’re using him to call out Emma being a hot mess.

Archie’s mere presence makes me think that maybe they’re not just blowing smoke when they talk about wanting to get back to the S1 feel and their core characters. This show has fallen FAR from grace, and if they do actually plan to get it even remotely back on track, it’s gonna take baby steps, lots of them. The character moments in this ep felt like potential baby steps to me. Like things that they’ve finally acknowledged to themselves that they’ve stuffed up, so they’re gonna try to turn some aspects of the show around. Whether it lasts, or I’m totally wrong and the rest of the season is just more of the same old, (which wouldn’t really surprise me), remains to be seen.

But I can fanwank that they had a conversation immediately following Robin’s funeral, where Regina made the offer for Zelena and baby Robyn to move in with her.

And this ultimately is my problem. I’m tired of having to fanwank stuff into existence in order to explain what the characters are doing. After six years I should not have to go looking for answers to basic questions like “when did Zelena and Regina decide to live together”

It’s like when Belle and Moe made up or a handful of other moments that happen off screen and are only for current plot developments.