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And this ultimately is my problem. I’m tired of having to fanwank stuff into existence in order to explain what the characters are doing. After six years I should not have to go looking for answers to basic questions like “when did Zelena and Regina decide to live together”
I’m okay with them skipping past the basic stuff. It’s like the “How come we never see any bathrooms on the Enterprise?” question. I think R&Z’s earlier conversation would have been straightforward, without drama, and it’s completely implied by what we did see on screen. It’s not like the question of “What happened with Will and Anastasia?”, which we’re still trying to figure out and despairing of ever seeing resolved.
Difference of opinion, I guess, because two sisters who just kissed and made up (somewhat) but still have all this weighted history between them–like sleeping with the same man, who just died because of one of the sister’s boyfriend–don’t have a rational conversation about living together. Especially given the time constraints of the show and that Robin died like…yesterday. That’s not a basic conversation to me. That is an actual emotional conversation that we should see.
But I’m not saying I want to see the basic stuff either–like Regina calling to ask Snow to come over–god no. That’s boring as sin. But the way the writers are making Snow, for example, this pop up character who’s only purpose is to be a shoulder for another..irks me. It speaks to how they view the characters. Like, I would have liked to have seen Snow and Charming actually going to Jiminiy and explaining why they think it’s a good idea that the Cricket go talk to Emma–their fears as parents, their guilt over the fact that they never asked for his help before, wondering if the entire town doesn’t need some therapy, their fears over if Baby Snowflake will have the same problems, ect ect.
Maybe I’m being nitpicky but scenes just felt cobbled together without any sort of glue or direction. Just my opinion though. My rating for the episode doesn’t really change–I still thought it was rather subdue, dull and without any real stakes by episode end.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"And this ultimately is my problem. I’m tired of having to fanwank stuff into existence in order to explain what the characters are doing. After six years I should not have to go looking for answers to basic questions like “when did Zelena and Regina decide to live together”
I’m okay with them skipping past the basic stuff. It’s like the “How come we never see any bathrooms on the Enterprise?” question. I think R&Z’s earlier conversation would have been straightforward, without drama, and it’s completely implied by what we did see on screen. It’s not like the question of “What happened with Will and Anastasia?”, which we’re still trying to figure out and despairing of ever seeing resolved.
Difference of opinion, I guess, because two sisters who just kissed and made up (somewhat) but still have all this weighted history between them–like sleeping with the same man, who just died because of one of the sister’s boyfriend–don’t have a rational conversation about living together. Especially given the time constraints of the show and that Robin died like…yesterday. That’s not a basic conversation to me. That is an actual emotional conversation that we should see. But I’m not saying I want to see the basic stuff either–like Regina calling to ask Snow to come over–god no. That’s boring as sin. But the way the writers are making Snow, for example, this pop up character who’s only purpose is to be a shoulder for another..irks me. It speaks to how they view the characters. Like, I would have liked to have seen Snow and Charming actually going to Jiminiy and explaining why they think it’s a good idea that the Cricket go talk to Emma–their fears as parents, their guilt over the fact that they never asked for his help before, wondering if the entire town doesn’t need some therapy, their fears over if Baby Snowflake will have the same problems, ect ect. Maybe I’m being nitpicky but scenes just felt cobbled together without any sort of glue or direction. Just my opinion though. My rating for the episode doesn’t really change–I still thought it was rather subdue, dull and without any real stakes by episode end.
I completely agree with you! I’d love to see more of those kind of scenes. The show just doesn’t feel as cohesive as it used to. It literally feels like they have thrown a bunch of unrelated scenes together and taken random bits out of those scenes. I also hate the feeling that they are just making everything up each season to fit the plot, rather than really thinking things through on a season AND show level, as well as on a character level.
In terms of Snow and Charming, I used to LOVE their characters in the first couple of seasons, but they are among my least favourite now. Partly, as you say, because they feel like pieces being moved around to bounce other characters off of rather than existing within their own right.
Had a post typed out then lost it because this site tends to freeze up on me for some reason. So to summarise:
I give this episode 8/10. Definitely a good start to the season and one of the better episodes we’ve had in the past few seasons.
I like the fact we got character moments such as Regina talking to Snow and Regina talking to Zelena. I loved the RumBelle dance. Also I didn’t hate Hook this episode.
I’m intrigued to see where the Morpheus/RumBelleJunior thing goes. I think it might be a test for Rumple in the long run but we shall see.
I’m hoping the current RumBelle angst is only because A&E plan on delivering them a happy ending, though since A&E seem allergic to RumBelle being happy, who knows. I’m cautiously optimistic.
I dislike Henry. The whole Robin wasn’t obliterated because Hades lied was full of crap. Henry is pointless now and is better when he keeps his mouth shut. Perhaps that is why this episode was good because Henry had such a minute role.
On a side not, I think the show is stealing ideas from the Buffyverse. The RumBelleJunior (RBJ) appearing as an adult and hating Rumple just reeks of Angel/Connor from Angel:The series. Hook seemed very much like Spike in season 7 of Buffy. EQ kind of seems like the Faith to Regina’s Buffy. Henry is season 5/6 Dawn (annoying) Snowing are Xander (doesn’t do much but provide morale to other characters.) Zelena’s like Anya (calls a spade a spade). Once has become a Buffy rip off but with Disney characters.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI actually really like Emma’s premonition. Who is under the cloak? Who is Emma’s true villain? It’s a question I always wanted to know. What’s the end game for the Savior? And now they have us guessing. It could be someone we know. It could be someone they haven’t introduced yet. It could be Jafar or Iago acting as the Oracle and trying to fool her. Based on how this show has gone, I want it to be Rumple. He should be her villain and that’s my prediction and hope that the final battle is between those two.
I am thinking it is EMMA herself ….. she is her own worse enemy.but then again I tend to be wrong all the time..
.Like, I would have liked to have seen Snow and Charming actually going to Jiminiy and explaining why they think it’s a good idea that the Cricket go talk to Emma–their fears as parents, their guilt over the fact that they never asked for his help before, wondering if the entire town doesn’t need some therapy, their fears over if Baby Snowflake will have the same problems, ect ect.
I think that is the one scene I would have liked to see. Definitely agree there. The thought was nice, and we can imagine them going to Archie and asking him to go to Emma, but seeing that scene would have made for an emotional punch and given more depth to the two flattest characters on the show.
I’ll have a go at it.
This was an Ok episode, and while individual scenes were done well, i felt like the final product didn’t come together and was more of a weird montage than a holistic story. Maybe 6/10?
Liked:
The scenes between Hyde and Emma were well done, and well-written. Also, the actor who plays Hyde has kind of an amazing voice. Just me?
I didn’t groan at Snowing for once. And I chuckled at Snow’s “Amateurs…”
I liked the dirigible. I can do without Jekyll, whom I just find grating, but the design of the blimp was neat.
Mixed:
While it is great to see Rumple and Belle get some screen time, that whole Morfetus story is way too Freudian for my taste. Primordial hate of the father in utero, while waking up mom with TLK?
This story also depends on so much retcon of the original portrayal of the Belle/Rumple dynamic because Belle has to ally with son against Rumple, and for that to happen, she needs to re-experience her relationship with Rumple as abusive from the start. But this wasn’t the way the relationship was written, at least not in the beginning. Meh. This thing’s a mess, I don’t see how they can fix it, so I am assuming that some form of symbolic or actual parricide is the only resolution. I miss Neal.
Disliked:
Regina and Zelena — it started well enough, but the writing and the conflict felt very flat to me. It was also completely manipulative of the audience. How can Zelena reoffend Regina and how might we recreate the feeling of sisterly enmity? Well, have Zelena lose the feather, last remnant of Robin, that Roland left for his stepmom. And then Zelena freaks out because by removing the EQ, Regina got rid of the part that was most like her? This resets Zelena’s character back to the petulant, self-absorbed, insecure child from which, I thought, she had grown.
Emma, reset back to 0 again. Back to the walls. Yippee ki yay.
And this ultimately is my problem. I’m tired of having to fanwank stuff into existence in order to explain what the characters are doing. After six years I should not have to go looking for answers to basic questions like “when did Zelena and Regina decide to live together”
I’m okay with them skipping past the basic stuff. It’s like the “How come we never see any bathrooms on the Enterprise?” question. I think R&Z’s earlier conversation would have been straightforward, without drama, and it’s completely implied by what we did see on screen. It’s not like the question of “What happened with Will and Anastasia?”, which we’re still trying to figure out and despairing of ever seeing resolved.
Difference of opinion, I guess, because two sisters who just kissed and made up (somewhat) but still have all this weighted history between them–like sleeping with the same man, who just died because of one of the sister’s boyfriend–don’t have a rational conversation about living together. Especially given the time constraints of the show and that Robin died like…yesterday. That’s not a basic conversation to me. That is an actual emotional conversation that we should see. But I’m not saying I want to see the basic stuff either–like Regina calling to ask Snow to come over–god no. That’s boring as sin. But the way the writers are making Snow, for example, this pop up character who’s only purpose is to be a shoulder for another..irks me. It speaks to how they view the characters. Like, I would have liked to have seen Snow and Charming actually going to Jiminiy and explaining why they think it’s a good idea that the Cricket go talk to Emma–their fears as parents, their guilt over the fact that they never asked for his help before, wondering if the entire town doesn’t need some therapy, their fears over if Baby Snowflake will have the same problems, ect ect. Maybe I’m being nitpicky but scenes just felt cobbled together without any sort of glue or direction. Just my opinion though. My rating for the episode doesn’t really change–I still thought it was rather subdue, dull and without any real stakes by episode end.
And there is another thing to add to that equation ,Henry is living with Regina, zelena killed his father , like she mentioned with joy and even Regina mentioned that zelena killed Neal, wouldnt a talk about zelena moving on would have to be talked with Henry as well? I still don’t know why zelena moved with Regina, Just bc they made peace doesn’t mean she has to live with Regina, she has her own house, in fact zelena should even be should not be running free, she is a murderer after all, and even if Regina asked forgiveness to her victims, Zelena never once showed regret over killing Marian, having Rumple captive, trying to kill baby snow, using robin and killing Neal, Until last season she was very happy she killed Neal and didn’t hide it, so zelena house should be in jail or asylum, but then again, once upon off screen.
The scenes between Hyde and Emma were well done, and well-written. Also, the actor who plays Hyde has kind of an amazing voice. Just me?
I did like that scene in the jail cell for the insight it gave into the fate of saviors, but I thought the dialogue was a bit clunky. Are we really supposed to believe that Hyde knew Emma had been in jail because of her caged look? I just thought that was a bit too convenient for the sake of plot. The actor who plays Hyde does have an interesting voice, but I still fail to see what Hyde’s motivation is. Why did he really bring the characters from the Land of Untold Stories to SB? Does he really want to see their stories play out for some benevolent reason like he’s their savior? Mr. Hyde strikes me has having more malevolent motives but he wouldn’t be the first “misunderstood” villain on this show either.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
And this ultimately is my problem. I’m tired of having to fanwank stuff into existence in order to explain what the characters are doing. After six years I should not have to go looking for answers to basic questions like “when did Zelena and Regina decide to live together”
I’m okay with them skipping past the basic stuff. It’s like the “How come we never see any bathrooms on the Enterprise?” question. I think R&Z’s earlier conversation would have been straightforward, without drama, and it’s completely implied by what we did see on screen. It’s not like the question of “What happened with Will and Anastasia?”, which we’re still trying to figure out and despairing of ever seeing resolved.
Difference of opinion, I guess, because two sisters who just kissed and made up (somewhat) but still have all this weighted history between them–like sleeping with the same man, who just died because of one of the sister’s boyfriend–don’t have a rational conversation about living together. Especially given the time constraints of the show and that Robin died like…yesterday. That’s not a basic conversation to me. That is an actual emotional conversation that we should see. But I’m not saying I want to see the basic stuff either–like Regina calling to ask Snow to come over–god no. That’s boring as sin. But the way the writers are making Snow, for example, this pop up character who’s only purpose is to be a shoulder for another..irks me. It speaks to how they view the characters. Like, I would have liked to have seen Snow and Charming actually going to Jiminiy and explaining why they think it’s a good idea that the Cricket go talk to Emma–their fears as parents, their guilt over the fact that they never asked for his help before, wondering if the entire town doesn’t need some therapy, their fears over if Baby Snowflake will have the same problems, ect ect. Maybe I’m being nitpicky but scenes just felt cobbled together without any sort of glue or direction. Just my opinion though. My rating for the episode doesn’t really change–I still thought it was rather subdue, dull and without any real stakes by episode end.
And there is another thing to add to that equation ,Henry is living with Regina, zelena killed his father , like she mentioned with joy and even Regina mentioned that zelena killed Neal, wouldnt a talk about zelena moving on would have to be talked with Henry as well? I still don’t know why zelena moved with Regina, Just bc they made peace doesn’t mean she has to live with Regina, she has her own house, in fact zelena should even be should not be running free, she is a murderer after all, and even if Regina asked forgiveness to her victims, Zelena never once showed regret over killing Marian, having Rumple captive, trying to kill baby snow, using robin and killing Neal, Until last season she was very happy she killed Neal and didn’t hide it, so zelena house should be in jail or asylum, but then again, once upon off screen.
Totally off topic, but when you really think about it…all of them should be in jail for something! XD
Regina: Years as the Evil Queen.
Snow White & Charming: Kidnappers
Emma: Accessory to Merlin’s Murder
Hook: 200+ Years as Captain Hook
Rumple: 200-300+ Years as the Dark One
Zelena: Years as the Wicked Witch of the West
Belle would literally be the only one left to raise Baby Robyn, Baby Snowflake, Baby Morpheus, & Henry! LOL!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Are we really supposed to believe that Hyde knew Emma had been in jail because of her caged look? I just thought that was a bit too convenient for the sake of plot.
I took this to be a nod to some of the narrative conventions of the literary genres they’re drawing on (think Sherlock Holmes and abductive reasoning).
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