6X11 TOUGHER THAN THE REST – -What was your favorite and least favorite moments

[nonnie]

I posted incorrectly but here is the correction ….

IN anticipation of Sunday’s show I am posting my favorite thread where our members state what they liked about the episode … I am so ready for this the press release looks like a really good show… the previews intriguing …

[RumplesGirl]

When I watched this about two week ago, I gave it a 7/10. Having seen it for a second time now, I’ll up it to a 7.5/10.

There’s a nice through-line all through the episode about the idea of transformation and whenever the show tries for a thesis statement, I’ll give it some applause. I like that Emma was a central focus of this episode (and probably season, which she should be). This was also the first time in forever that I wasn’t drastically horrified by Rumple and Belle. In fact, I think their conversation at the end was one of the strongest parts of episode.

However, the Wish Realm drives me absolutely batty. It’s all fluff and no sense or substance and they raise more questions than is necessary. I also continue to think that Robin’s return is unwarranted and poorly explained (so, Neal’s spirit couldn’t go into Wish Realm!Nealfire if only for the sake of Wish Realm!Henry???)

LIKED

–“The best fairy tales are about transformation.”

–Poor Gideon. I am actually quite interested to know what life was like with Grandma Black Fairy.

–Old, fat, drunk, incompetent Hook is my favorite kind.

–The dynamic between Rumple and Gideon is very very good. It brings Rumple’s character back to where he began (a desperate father) and Giles/Bobby have great chemistry (almost as good as MRJ and Bobby).

–Chisel vs sword. “Now we duel.”

–“A tree?” “A magic tree.” “Oh, well. Forgive me.”

–“I am fated to die. And I will die. But not today.”

–“We’re gonna switch to water.” “What for drinking??”

MIXED

–August being back is great and it’s nice to see that he didn’t completely shirk his duties but I’m not thrilled about Emma getting her last name from him. I would have much preferred if she came up with it on her own, a sign of that little tiny bit of hope she had left for a better life.

–Emma’s version of the Ugly Duckling resembles Emma story (Emma was ALWAYS Emma Swan, she just didn’t know it and it took finding her community to know that) more than August’s version so the fact that August’s version gets more weight bothers me a bit.

–Why on earth does Gideon believe that if he kills Emma he can be a Savior? That’s now how this works at all.

DISLIKED

–Robin’s soul went into Wish Realm!Robin?? What is that nonsense?

–Regina manages to either magically write a letter and poof out of the room OR hand write a letter and walk out the door without anyone noticing. See, little things like this bother me.

–Belle starved to death. Like the writers couldn’t think of *anything* in this land of possibilities for her other than death by starvation.

–There’s something a bit squicky and unsettling about Charming saying that they’ll give Belle one shot to save Gideon but “if it doesn’t work….” as if Gideon’s life is less important than Emma’s. Gideon may have been born (literally) yesterday but he’s still someone’s son.

–I’m sorry but no amount of belief makes you a master carpenter. You actually do need like…skills and experience. Also, time. August carved a wardrobe in a few hours that took Geppetto months.

–So why does Gideon wear the hood/cloak? I get that for the first half it was for mystery but why is he STILL wearing it?

–Stop. Breaking. The. Clock. Tower.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Corbin]

Well, after months of family stuff and school stuff and political stuff and finding my life in upheaval, I’m back!

Let’s get on with it.

Favorite:

– I like August being back. Watching his scenes with Emma, I thought a lot about their dynamic in Season 1 and how much that really influenced Emma as a character. Plus, as always, JMo and Eion have great chemistry.

– Regina with Robin in Rumple’s prison ranks as one of my favorite scenes of theirs. It really touched on their relationship and, through Lana’s acting, you could see the depth in which Regina loved Robin. When Robin burst through the tree, I felt Regina’s relief.

– I like the Rumbelle discussions. That was a needed element in a relationship that has long been off the rails. So to see them discussing their child’s fate and see Rumple’s insistence in helping his son was a welcome relief.

– I hope those little snippets of abuse from Gideon’s childhood get explored with as much depth as the implication of introducing them.

– EF!Rumple is always the best Rumple, no matter the realm or time period.

Disliked:

– The dialogue really irked me. I know Once’s writing has been lacking over the past few seasons, but I’ve never felt more assaulted with the directness of the dialogue until now. I get that they want to teach lessons, but you can speak like a human while doing so! No real person (and no character on this show until season four) tells someone a number of times how they “have the power to make your own fate.”

– The tree was as wooden as most of the acting. I did, however, like Emma’s final scene with August.

– I don’t understand how this show can find so many loopholes in the laws they created. If you can kill a Savior and claim their powers, why didn’t Cora just try to kill Emma in S2? Why be more corrupted by the Dark One powers when she could’ve achieved (supposed) ultimate powers from True Love Incarnate?

– If I hadn’t seen the show until this episode until this episode and someone told me that Aladdin, Jasmine, Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, and a number of other literary characters were in the first half of this season, I would’ve never believed you.

Keeper of Thor’s Hammer, Will Scarlet’s Genie Bottle, Emma’s Gun, Emma and Henry’s Moment at the Castle, Cora, and the infamous Family Tree!

[AKA]

I thought this episode was pretty good.  I give it a 8/10

Liked:

Loved Dream Hook! I think I laughed all the way through the commercials

Dream Rumple was as always awesome and the dynamic with Regina was something I missed.  It is obvious that Regina prefers Imp Rumple to Mr. Gold and she just seems like she actually cares about him somewhat as a friend.  You never get that feeling anymore between those two at least not on Regina’s part.

I liked the dynamic of August and Emma especially in Storybrooke

I loved the scene between Gideon and Rumple, they were excellent together and I do believe we all need to go back and see that side of Rumple.

I liked the ending scene between Rumple and Belle. I loved the fact that Rumple not only admitted that he understands that he has an addiction to  black magic but that he does not want his son to share the same fate.  I loved the fact that he is the one to ask them to work together not just for them but for the whole town.  Rumple is best when he is being a father. I also loved the fact that Belle is starting to see that she is not perfect and that people sometimes make bad decisions for good reasons.

Mixed:

I love that Regina got the chance to bring back Robin but I don’t know how that was possible and it should have been explained other than if you believe strongly enough you can do it.

Emma’s I am fated to die but not today.  Of course you are fated to die, you are not immortal.

Disliked:

Hook and Charming stating that they will give Belle one shot to change Gideon’s mind but after that they were taking him down.  Wow that is really “hero” like!  It is one of my pet peeves with this show.  You are a hero and worth saving if the heroes say so but if they don’t they could care less.   While I understand that Gideon is trying to kill Emma, they were basically telling Gideon’s mother that Emma was more important than her and Rumple’s son.

The letter from Regina to Emma.  One second she was there and then poof she was gone and there was a well written letter?  Magic I guess.

 

[nevermore]

So, I missed the start, so this is a bit skewed/truncated

Liked: I think OUAT is at its best when it is unapologetically structuralist, with big, mythic themes that are then explored through the characters and their relationships to each other both as specific characters, and as avatars of certain archetypes. There was something of this in this episode. By making Gideon and Emma total, almost mythical antagonists, the kinship tree clicks into place, such that Snowing and Rumbelle also become mirror images of each other — as I think the show hints at from the beginning, whereby if Snowing is the couple that, by its very nature, always finds each other, Rumbelle is the couple that always loses each other (which also explains somewhat why they’re such a stable pair despite the clear dysfunctions). It also highlights the potential parallels between Emma and Gideon, which also makes them sort of mirror images of one another.

Lana’s acting is always amazing. I am not sure what they’re trying to do with AU Robin, but my guess is that they’re going to backtrack on the whole “Hades obliterated his very soul” thing. If so, even if it’s fan pandering, it’s still better than just ignoring it outright — they did such a horrid, insensitive job of Robin’s storyline that whatever they do now won’t fix that, but it might at least provide a less bitter resolution.

I liked the Rumple/Belle scene at the well. When Rumple actually said that maybe they should help Gideon not for themselves, but for everyone, my jaw dropped a little. And Belle admitting to rationalizing her flawed reasoning? Could it be actual character progress? Surely not. I’m assuming we’ll backslide, but for now this is at least somewhat encouraging.

AU Hook. Best thing ever. Kudos to Colin for going with it — he looked like he was having a hoot.

Disliked:

The dialogue between Emma and August was really clunky and the acting pretty stilted to the point of being distracting.

I am so not impressed with Charming and Hook getting all sanctimonious with Belle about giving Gideon only one chance. Seriously? What about when Emma was running around as the Dark One for half a season?

I don’t actually understand the worldbuilding or mechanics of the Wish!Realm.

 

 

 

 

 

[bibliophile]

Liked
August being back with a real role to play. I didn’t mind the Swan stuff.

Rumple and Belle talking to each other sounded more like their real selves (if that makes sense) instead of the near constant yelling we’ve had for the last two seasons which mostly feels weird. But so does most of the Rumple story for the last couple of years… he’s evil incarnate! – he’s a vulnerable sweetie! – he’s evil! – he’s vulnerable! – his heart is pure! – he’s the darkest Dark One ever! ect.

Mixed
It doesn’t make sense that you’d get the Savior powers through murder. That’s really more of a dark thing. I hope we find out that it doesn’t work that way and that Gideon is just confused (or been lied too/manipulated by The Black Fairy).

Disliked
Charming and Hook being so quick to want to kill Gideon even after they knew who he was. I know the Once ‘heroes’ are tarnished at best, but can’t they act heroic once and a while? Isn’t killing anyone who angers or threatens them more of a villain move? This reminds me of Camelot when Charming killed that knight (Percival?) without a second thought, even though WE knew (can’t remember what he knew) that Percival was just doing the traditional heroic thing and trying to kill the villain. No matter how they paint her now Regina was a villain and her being a softer person now doesn’t bring back all the hundreds of people she killed. To put it in more modern terms a serial killer could change their life and want to make up for what they’ve done, but that doesn’t mean the justice system will just give them a hug and tell all the victims families that they can’t possibly still expect them to lock up such a changed person. I mean I love Rumple and he’s my favorite character, but I don’t really expect his life to turn into roses and ice cream if he really turns good someday either.

The wardrobe plot device was a little forced – how did August carve it so fast? I get that this is a different tree but it’s still weird that it’s bigger and it can take three back instead of just the two. And again how did he carve it so fast?!

Robin being back. How is this a thing that has happened? And why do none of these stupid ways to bring dead people back ever happen to Neil? I did enjoy the father/son chat between Rumple and Gideon, but it does feel excruciatingly like they are trying to recreate the Baelfire story that they should never have killed off in the first place by basically replacing him with Gideon.

Robin and Regina escaped from RUMPLESTILTSKIN… with a nail? That doesn’t make sense? He’s The Dark One Dearie! Surely he’d have noticed his flay-cell was empty in time to poof his way over to August’s workshop and quip up a storm.

[bibliophile]

So, I missed the start, so this is a bit skewed/truncated
Liked: I think OUAT is at its best when it is unapologetically structuralist, with big, mythic themes that are then explored through the characters and their relationships to each other both as specific characters, and as avatars of certain archetypes. There was something of this in this episode. By making Gideon and Emma total, almost mythical antagonists, the kinship tree clicks into place, such that Snowing and Rumbelle also become mirror images of each other — as I think the show hints at from the beginning, whereby if Snowing is the couple that, by its very nature, always finds each other, Rumbelle is the couple that always loses each other (which also explains somewhat why they’re such a stable pair despite the clear dysfunctions). It also highlights the potential parallels between Emma and Gideon, which also makes them sort of mirror images of one another.

Quote

I hadn’t thought about it before, but I think you’ve really got this one nailed with the mirror image families. Perhaps Henry as the product of dark and light can help? …sorry I just laughed when I read that last bit.

[RumplesGirl]

Liked: I think OUAT is at its best when it is unapologetically structuralist, with big, mythic themes that are then explored through the characters and their relationships to each other both as specific characters, and as avatars of certain archetypes. There was something of this in this episode. By making Gideon and Emma total, almost mythical antagonists, the kinship tree clicks into place, such that Snowing and Rumbelle also become mirror images of each other — as I think the show hints at from the beginning, whereby if Snowing is the couple that, by its very nature, always finds each other, Rumbelle is the couple that always loses each other (which also explains somewhat why they’re such a stable pair despite the clear dysfunctions). It also highlights the potential parallels between Emma and Gideon, which also makes them sort of mirror images of one another.

I love this.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Gaultheria]

The fat-shaming in this episode bothered me a lot. It’s practically a crime when directed against a woman, but it’s okay, even funny, when directed against a man? Especially when a beautiful woman such as Emma is making the comments?

I guess wish realm Hook deserved the fat-shaming because of his pride and his lifestyle.

Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher

[onceaholic]

7/10

Because of

-Lack of a decent explanation as to why Robin didn’t age. The idea that he has the other Robin’s soul in him is rather silly and makes no sense. In fact, the explanation was just as wishy-washy as the Wishy Washy World he was in (actually….that makes sense….)

-the speed at which Pinocchio carved that tree. Not even his father could carve that fast in the pilot. And it could carry 3 people, rather than 2!

(Wouldn’t it have been better for Emma to conjure up a Submarine thing and have the mermaids guide it to our world?).

-the soldiers galloping off without first checking behind the logs.

-not getting to see the WWW! version of EQ

 

Thus saying that…

I LOVED the actor playing Gideon and his interactions with Rumple. I also enjoyed this version of Robin.

I also LOL when everyone scarpered out of the tavern when Regina walked in. There were even people jumping out of the windows. And Robin just sat there…..haha

I also thought the idea of one set of parents (snowing) being pitted against another set of parents (rumbelle) was interesting,and I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

 

 

Keeper of Regina's bravery

[Author]

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