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There have been plenty of instances in interviews where they’ve said that the end of Snowing would be the end of hope (so they’ll never split them up)
But they aren’t keeping them together because fans have shipped snowing. You even say snowing ain’t that popular anymore. They are keeping them together because they strongly believe in the central theme of the show and two that started it all.
Never mind that it would make Regina the Dark One which is one of the single worst ideas I’ve ever heard, the writing team wanted to bait SQ in that moment so, tossing logic out the window, they had Emma fork over the dagger to Regina
Whether or not they did this to appease SQ shippers, or whether they themselves appreciate the dynamic between these two characters and felt that Regina should be the one, and would be the only one to pull the trigger if need be, we will never really know (although I liked the idea of Regina being the only one who had the stomach to do what was necessary, you are right, it made no friking sense because of what the resulting consequences would be). To me that’s just bad writing, as opposed to trying to appease SQ shippers. But who knows.
Snow and Charming (and Henry for that matter) played next to no active role in trying to save their daughter.
Can’t argue with you on this one. For two parents to be so keen on keeping the darkness away from Emma in Season 4, only to take such a passive role in season 5A once she became the dark one, is just plain dumb. And I get there wasn’t enough time, but I agree that in this instance, they put the CS relationship ahead of original themes and really, common sense. I can’t blame them for wanting to incorporate new material in order to get some backstory on the dark one and to develop the CS relationship more. But I can’t help but think they could have done that without abandoning things, like the charmings being so passive. But again, I’m not certain that they wrote the Hook and Emma stuff simply for CS fans, and took out more Snowing stuff simply because they aren’t as popular anymore (mainly because the writing for them as been atrocious). I genuinely think that they needed to develop Emma’s relationship with Hook, and thought this was the time to do it. They just did it poorly in many respects.
I’ll pass over the fact that Emma’s entire hero journey was reduced to her boyfriend and not her self actualization.
No argument from me on this one either. I think it was very clear that the writers changed their arc halfway through. The first episode was so promising and then it all became about Hook and not the person we all wanted it to be about, and were led to believe it would be about.
I think really, the writers need to go back to what made the show great; character’s emotions and interactions with each other. They have a great cast. The acting is great. But it’s gotten too plot heavy and characters and relationships we used to love are getting lost and muddled. Once an end date is given, I sincerely hope they can slow things down, and just go back to having the characters interact with each other as they should be, not as the plot dictates. That, I know we both can agree on haha. And it is way too much fun to debate ouat when I should be working…..yikes.
[adrotate group="5"]But they aren’t keeping them together because fans have shipped snowing. You even say snowing ain’t that popular anymore. They are keeping them together because they strongly believe in the central theme of the show and two that started it all.
But that’s not what I’m arguing. Nor what A and E said. They said that they don’t create/write ships. Yes, they do! If they only put ships together because they were popular then SQ would have had magical sex every episode since the Pilot. But for them to say “we don’t create ships” is point blank wrong. Ships = relationships. They write relationships and specifically they write romantic relationships with more and more increasing frequency, which was what A and E were arguing against in this article.
They write relationships that almost never break up. That stay in one (pretty, under 30, white, heterosexual) mold–the one exception is really Rumbelle and that is *only* because Skin Deep caused shock waves through the fandom. It was the episode that changed a lot of this OUAT fan culture. The writers wrote it without really planning to do much seriously with it. But then–guess what–they did do something serious (and seriously wrong) with it because of the popularity. So I grant it’s a mixed bag of keeping ships together because of popularity, but to say that they flat out don’t write ships is just…wrong.
To me that’s just bad writing, as opposed to trying to appease SQ shippers. But who knows.
Those two aren’t mutually exclusive. There is a very popular and pretty important belief in TV writing: show don’t tell. A and E *tell* OQ or CS by way of the characters constant reaffirmation for their love for their romantic partner or by way of kisses and special hugs. But they keep showing something different, like Regina and Emma being the only two who “get” each other or trust each other with their various missions. They even then went and paralleled Emma saving Regina from the Darkness with Guinevere saving Lance from the Darkness in the Pit of Eternal Goo. The baiting is all over the place all while they try to sell the “official” canon love story of OQ and CS. But bad writing and baiting are not mutually exclusive.
But it’s gotten too plot heavy and characters and relationships we used to love are getting lost and muddled. Once an end date is given, I sincerely hope they can slow things down, and just go back to having the characters interact with each other as they should be, not as the plot dictates.
Sure, we agree on what we hope. But I also learned that #hope is a dangerous thing with this show because, invariably, it all gets dashed to bits.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"But for them to say “we don’t create ships” is point blank wrong. Ships = relationships.
I think “relationships” is a neutral term. “Ships”, though, are like “morals”. If a person likes one, then it’s right and good and unquestionably the way things ought to be, as far as the believer is concerned. It can’t be allowed to change, because it’s already perfect. From the point of view of someone who doesn’t favour a particular ship, it seems like fanaticism.
Relationships reside in RAM. Ships are in ROM.
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I would agree that “ships” is more loaded term because we do tend to refer to romantic liaisons with it and those liaisons are either RIGHT or WRONG, but it’s still not on the up and up to say that A and E don’t create those pairings or don’t manipulate the audience into “telling” us how to feel with some of the ships. They wrote Snowing in a way that you’re *supposed* be rooting for them and believe that they really are true love (staying with S1 Snowing at any rate). They wrote OQ, with its magical true love pixie dust thus telling the audience up front that this ship was going to sail into Forever Land, so that people would support that ship.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think “relationships” is a neutral term. “Ships”, though, are like “morals”. If a person likes one, then it’s right and good and unquestionably the way things ought to be, as far as the believer is concerned. It can’t be allowed to change, because it’s already perfect. From the point of view of someone who doesn’t favour a particular ship, it seems like fanaticism.
I think this is what I was trying to convey as far as the difference here. And this is what I believe A&E meant when they said they don’t create “ships.”
They wrote OQ, with its magical true love pixie dust thus telling the audience up front that this ship was going to sail into Forever Land, so that people would support that ship.
And here, I think we are just going to agree to disagree on this. I think there is simply no way of knowing whether or not A&E wrote the magic pixie dust love thing for Regina in order to tell the audience that you must support this “ship” because it’s going to happen and stay, or whether they simply already did the two people meet and fall in love thing many times. Maybe they wanted something different. Something that included magic. And something that made Tink relevant in season 3A. If anything they were writing it in because they knew they wanted Regina to find the one, didn’t want to spend the time introducing us to that special someone for her (but also didn’t want to rush it), so they gave us this magical true love thing. It was different from what they had done. Not saying it was the right thing to do, or that it was done properly, but I think you might be emphasizing the writers’ “ship” motivation more than simply their “plot” motivation.
“Ships”, though, are like “morals”. If a person likes one, then it’s right and good and unquestionably the way things ought to be, as far as the believer is concerned.
Yes, I agree. Also, based on the interview, I think Adam and Eddy are being a bit coy — if not straight up disingenuous. They are essentially saying “Oh! Look! The fandom, such a weird beast it is! We’re so flabbergasted by this whole “shipping” thing! We just wanna tell stories, and the rest is fans projecting! Ah ha ha, fans, they are so silly.”
This isn’t their first rodeo, they’ve had a huge and active fandom with Lost, and while I don’t know whether the same “shipping wars” were happening then, I doubt this is a new and unexpected phenomenon for those two.
I think what they’re doing — and who they’re really talking to with this interview — are their peers and professional critics, not the fans. Essentially, they are trying to argue that they are writing a show like Game of Thrones, and not Outlander. Which is to say, a show about events and relationships more broadly, where romantic entanglements are only one element of the complex narrative tapestry. Rather than the picturesque backdrop for the central romance that’s, in fact, the main point.
But based on 5A, they are writing Outlander. Except, badly.
This just makes me angry. They are dishonest and just have no respect to their fandom. They think we are brainless morons who just eat everything they serve and then lie about what they made. The fact that they claim that they don’t write ‘ships’ is just a lie and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
You know what, I’m fine that they only care about the ratings and the money and keeping their job, but I’m not fine that they lie to us that they still care about the story and the characters. This show hasn’t had any decent character development a long time and you know what, it doesn’t even have any plot, it just has things randomly happen without any logic or explanation because they need it to happen. I’m still trying to figure out why Regina just randomly assumed that by tethering Hook to Excalibur, it would create another dark one and why Merlin randomly conveniently made the dark curse so the only thing that Hook needs to do is crash a heart (off topic I know but I’m mad).
So they shouldn’t come and say that “they poured their hearts into the show” or that they don’t write ships, they should stop thinking we’re stupid and stop lying to us!
"All your questions are pointless"
The fact that they claim that they don’t write ‘ships’ is just a lie and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.
Ouch.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher
The fact that they claim that they don’t write ‘ships’ is just a lie and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves
Yikes indeed. These writers absolutely have their flaws. And this last season seemed pretty dreadful for many reasons. But I do believe that A&E simply meant they don’t write with the fans and their “ships” in mind. And I’ve already stated how I believe relationships and “ships” are different. I don’t think they meant any harm by it and I don’t think they believe their fans are idiots. I think that is really harsh and they obviously don’t think that. They obviously still care about the characters and the story. I think A&E would like to end the show, but ABC continues to renew it. And I think they are simply running out of material. I think once they set an end date, we will see better writing, I hope.
And I would argue that Regina’s character has developed quite well with her journey from dark to light. The writing was certainly very iffy this past half season, but let’s not throw around silly things like they are lying to us fans because they think we are morons.
I think A&E would like to end the show, but ABC continues to renew it. And I think they are simply running out of material.
That’d be a stressful situation to be in, where both options (leaving and staying) reduce their future marketability.
Gaultheria's fanvids: http://youtube.com/sagethrasher
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