Alive Again

[oncegal]

oncegal wrote:

Daniel always promotes coming to this forum to have all kinds of discussions but from being here just for a couple of hours I can already tell this isn’t the place for me. For one I actually like Hook and it seems like everyone here dislikes him and his relationship with Emma which is my favorite on the show.. Shame really

You can have all kinds of discussions here as we usually do. Our opinions will differ sometimes, of course. There is a CaptainSwam thread here in the character discussions that you are free to comment in and see if others reply. There used to be quite a lot of Hook fans here…. once upon a time see what I did there.

Sounds to me like they were scared away or put off the forum by the very anti Hook/CS atmosphere. Shame since they’re the main couple of the show and should have a place to go and celebrate.

[RumplesGirl]

Let’s not do forum politics, please. It’s been a very long 5 years and we’ve all been through a lot over that time; most of us have been here that whole length and have seen more fighting, more arguments, more ups and downs than one could imagine. Matt and I have tried our best to hold everything together and it hasn’t been easy. There are many places in the fandom that celebrate Hook/CS and while this site does have a bias toward other ships, that should be okay because other sites (other forums, Tumblr, fan run sites) have a bias as well. This site did become a bit of a safe haven for those who do not like certain characters or stories, but again I’m not going to defend nor blame anyone, any ship, or any set of fans for how this forum came together. We did and that’s that.

I welcome everyone here even when I don’t agree with their stances and have always been open to engaging in debate about morals, ethics, plot, character, and the anything show related. That will never stop. All CS fans/ Hook fans are welcome and I look forward to engaging with you about plot and the show, but this thread will NOT be taken over by any sort of forum politics, please and thank you.

Back to the point, guys.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thedarkonedearie]

And another thing to add…..that whole episode, Hook was concerned about no one but Emma. Not Henry, not Snow White & Charming, not Regina or Robin, all who came to Hell in the first place to get him….no one but Emma! I get that they’re supposed to be considered “true love” and all now, but that’s very unsettling because it further proves the theory that everyone in that family could die, and Hook wouldn’t bat an eye as long as it isn’t Emma.

Ok let’s not go off the rail here.  Maybe in this specific episode he didn’t acknowledge everyone being in pril, and not just Emma, but he has acknowledged the danger he brought upon the entire family.  Have we already forgotten his conversation with Charming?  To say he wouldn’t bat an eye if the rest of them died is just silly, and quite frankly, some anti-hook nonsense.

[RumplesGirl]

To say he wouldn’t bat an eye if the rest of them died is just silly,

I do actually agree. It would upset Hook if anyone in Emma’s family died. He’d want to help her through it. I do think his main concern is Emma, though. Maybe that’s okay since they are in love, but a little more shading in him with regards to the rest of characters wouldn’t go amiss.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thedarkonedearie]

As far as Hook getting resurrected, I am very torn.  We all knew he was going to come back.  Honestly, a God like Zeus pardoning him and bringing him back is waaaaaaaayy better than some magic macguffin he could have found in Hades’ lair.  However, the reasoning behind Zeus’ decision is questionable.  And this is where I really wish we got a backstory of him and Hades.  If we saw how much he loathed Hades, or how horrible Hades was to Zeus, it would make a little more sense why Hook helping the others kill him would rank high in his books.  Maybe Zeus is a little corrupt with his power?  Maybe Robin should be brought back to life, but maybe Zeus is corrupt and doesn’t really care.  Maybe he hated Hades so much that the small thing Hook did was worth saving him in his eyes?  But again, we won’t understand Zeus’ motivation or behavior because we didn’t see him and Hades interact at all in a flashback.  I think a flashback would have helped this scene immensely.

But again, you guys never let down all the not so great things Hook does and says, but when he does good things like saving Arthur and helping him find his purpose and redemption, and then helping to to kill Hades and therefore helping to save Regina and Emma and everyone (despite Zelena finding the crystal information out herself), we need to highlight them as well.  I don’t care if Hades told Zelena about the crystal.  It was Hook’s intentions that in Zeus’ mind, made him worth saving.  But I think this episode showed how far Hook has come, and despite the many flaws he has, like we all do, there is no denying his undying love for Emma and now he’s started to save others too.  He could have let Arthur die people.  He chose not to.  That’s a big step for the character, I thought.

Now as far as Robin coming back goes, I too think we’ll see him again.  The crystal was likely made by Zeus so if anyone can bring Robin back, it would be him.

 

[oncegal]

You worded it perfectly, “anti-Hook nonsense”. Just as how people are all up in arms about how CS reunited. I can only hope when I pass into the next world that things like that happen around me. A celebration of life and love, is something to treasure not look down upon.

[RumplesGirl]

But again, you guys never let down all the not so great things Hook does and says, but when he does good things like saving Arthur and helping him find his purpose and redemption, and then helping to to kill Hades and therefore helping to save Regina and Emma and everyone (despite Zelena finding the crystal information out herself), we need to highlight them as well.  I don’t care if Hades told Zelena about the crystal.  It was Hook’s intentions that in Zeus’ mind, made him worth saving.

No that’s all good and worth mentioning. I think the larger problem is this idea that these few good (and yes, they are good acts) outweigh a ton of bad—bad things that include quite a bit of murder (and other misdeeds, but let’s stick with the big ones if it’ll make it easier). Do good acts totally wash out the bad? Should they? Who decides? Who is the judge? Apparently it’s Zeus but because he’s only in the episode for 4 seconds I have no idea of his internal working and how he makes judgments. He’s judge and jury here but without letting me into his head space at all to understand how he’s weighing right and wrong–something that should be vital when lives are at stake.

I don’t deny that Hook did a lot of good this episode with good intentions. I just wonder if those things cancel out the bad he did, even most recently when he was the DO (which is apparently completely forgivable for *him* but not for other characters who are doomed, like the previous DOs and Rumple himself)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thedarkonedearie]

Right and maybe these actions shouldn’t outweigh all the bad.  But that’s why I think it was so important to get into Zeus’ mind here.  And we didn’t.

[Slurpeez]

I think this resurrection would have gone over better if (1) S5a had unfolded very differently and (2) Robin Hood hadn’t died during the same episode (in a way which means Robin can probably never come back). So, it seems cold to a lot of fans who liked Regina and Robin together, or who, at the very least, think it’s not true to the message of hope and second chances or fair to orphan very young children (on a “family” show) while other non-parents get to be resurrected for reasons. Also, I get the feeling the writers almost like drama for drama’s sake, because they must be aware how upset Regina/Robin fans were going to be. Did they have to film Hook and Emma’s reunion in front of Robin’s casket before it was even buried? Sheesh! Talk about putting salt in the wound!

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

I think this arc could have benefited from cutting a few stories and putting in others.

Things we did not need, in the long run:

1) Hercules/Meg storyline of 513

2) James and David

3) Ruby Slippers

Cut those and give us flashbacks of Zeus/Hades’ story and maybe Zeus decision to bring back Hook wouldn’t feel so tacked on at the last second.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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