"All he does is lies."

[obisgirl]

I don’t get why the writers presented Rumple as evil in 4A when in reality, his intentions and motivations themselves were very sympathetic, it was his methods that weren’t above board.

Rumple has always had a reason for doing the things that he’s done. He needed magic to protect his son; he needed someone to cast the curse to come to this land to reunite with his son. He needed magic to leave Storybrooke because it was the price for him bringing magic to Storybrooke.  All of those things were for his son.  Rumple wanting magic in 4A had nothing to do with his son.  Neal might have been a very small reason for it, but pretty much it was Rumple wanting it for himself.

All Rumple wanted to do was get out from under the dagger’s control and keep his power. Considering he was enslaved by Zelena last year and he has such deep seated insecurities that he believes having power is the only way to keep those he loves safe, this is totally understandable. (Desperate souls shows this. Without power, Bae was going to be taken to die in the ogre war, with power, Rumple protected Bae, brought the children home and ended the ogre war. You can see why Rumple thinks Power=Good, No Power=Bad).

And that’s completely understandable except it was not portrayed that way at all; nor did Robert ever mention that was his motivation for what Rumple was doing.  Robert said that Rumple felt bad about what he was doing except whenever I watched him a scene this season (4A), I never saw that. And especially in the dialogue where he’s so obviously consumed by power and has no regrets or qualms about what he was doing.

Rumple has always been an ends justify the means guy, just like Regina is an ends justify the means girl. Why is one vilified whilst the other isn’t?

One simple reason: Double-standards.  We don’t like to talk about it, but it’s definitely implied.

[Keb]

I think in part we see different facets of Regina & Rumple because they’re in different places in their stories. Back in S2, I saw a lot of people asking the reverse question: Why is Regina vilified and Rumple isn’t? But they were in different places then, with different motives.

It’s VERY true that they seldom showed us the sympathetic, softer side of Rumple in 4A, and I think that’s problematic from a storytelling POV. They wrote it. It’s in the cut scenes they showed us. It’s in bits of Bobby’s performance, and echoed in how the characters react to Rumple’s character. It’s paralleled in Hook’s development over the season (and perhaps even a little bit, though less obviously, in Regina’s). And without Baelfire as a primary motivation, Rumplestiltskin as a character does feel like something is missing; it took us time in S1 to figure him out, and now I think the character himself (and possibly Bobby playing him) is trying to figure himself out.

But why we saw Rumple as evil in 4A when his driving forces were sympathetic? Because he was doing evil things, and he knew it. His goals may have been understandable–given what he’s been through, getting free of the dagger without losing his power totally makes sense as a driving goal and irresistible temptation. But in the process he was willing to let the Snow Queen destroy everyone else in Storybrooke, just so he could get away with the slightly less horrific things that the Great Cleaving required (hatting enough magical beings, and presumably sacrificing them as well as the heart of the person who knew him before he was the Dark One). Getting away with that also required betraying Belle and lying to her, as she never would have supported hatting the fairies, putting her own father at risk, or letting DQ destroy Storybrooke, which means there was literally no one that he didn’t find himself willing to betray in the process of trying to get free of the dagger. He’s self-aware enough that he knew he was doing it the whole time, and there WAS guilt when he was betraying Emma and Belle–you can hear it in his speech to Emma at the mansion, and you can see it in his expression when Belle’s apologizing to him in Family Business. That’s the bit of the softer Rumple that we saw. You can even sense a bit of guilt in how he reacts when Hook talks to him about what he’s doing: his impatience, his look of horror at the suggestion that he’d let his grandson go down with the rest of the town, and his assurance that Emma and Storybrooke will be safe from him once he leaves town with his powers intact…those tiny bits are the bits of the good man that’s left in him, the bits that have pretty much given up the fight against darkness.

As he told Regina, what good did fighting it do him? He lost his son, the one thing that truly mattered to him, and nearly killed Belle under Zelena’s power. For their sakes he was willing to surrender the power briefly–he DID switch the daggers–but he couldn’t resist the temptation and couldn’t come up with a good reason to even try. And the more he let himself give into the darkness that plan required, the darker he went. He embraced the vengeance it allowed him to wreak (and we KNOW vengeance does a number on your heart), got caught up in what felt like a series of lucky strokes and believed things were finally going to go his way for the first time in a long time, and as I pointed out earlier, even attempted to drag others down with him (Hook & Regina both really) as a way of helping to justify what he was doing as okay.

He looks evil even with understandable motives because he IS being evil. He’s embracing it as a way to get what he wants. It requires hurting people and he’s okay with that, as long as it doesn’t drive Belle away from him and his grandson is safe. Unfortunately for him…Belle is a hero and and she can’t support hurting people that way. Just like she tried to tell Neal when she realized that something wasn’t right about how they were trying to bring back Rumple, she would have told Rumple they’d find another way if she’d known what he was trying to do–she’d have supported the goal, but not the means. The means matter as much as the goals when it comes to villains and heroes, I think.

And having said that, I’ll acknowledge that not all the means the heroes have used have been good ones. Heck, even though it was quite likely the only way to stop him at that moment, a lot of people I’ve seen on Tumblr are actually angry with Belle’s using the dagger to control Rumple. S1 Emma was certainly willing to use villainous means to her ends a few times. On the other hand, when she recognized it, she often came clean and acknowledged she was wrong to do so–because that’s what heroes do.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[MatthewPaul]

One simple reason: Double-standards. We don’t like to talk about it, but it’s definitely implied.

Quoted for the truth. It really depends on each person’s favorite characters. For example, a fan of Rumple is going to be a lot more apologetic and defensive about his actions, while not being so sympathetic when other certain characters do harmful deeds. Especially if those actions are targeted against Rumple. Really, you can’t make it a fact that Rumple is less evil than Regina or Hook, or vice versa. Each one has committed villainous actions on the show, and it all comes down to which one you have a personal attachment too. So arguing which one is more justified in their actions will just go in circles.

[WickedRegal]

obisgirl wrote:

One simple reason: Double-standards. We don’t like to talk about it, but it’s definitely implied.

Quoted for the truth. It really depends on each person’s favorite characters. For example, a fan of Rumple is going to be a lot more apologetic and defensive about his actions, while not being so sympathetic when other certain characters do harmful deeds. Especially if those actions are targeted against Rumple. Really, you can’t make it a fact that Rumple is less evil than Regina or Hook, or vice versa. Each one has committed villainous actions on the show, and it all comes down to which one you have a personal attachment too. So arguing which one is more justified in their actions will just go in circles.

That…Is…TRUTH!!!!!!!!!

I think all Evil Regals, Dearies, or Hookers have at least said this once to their favorites…..

"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor

[PriceofMagic]

I think all Evil Regals, Dearies, or Hookers have at least said this once to their favorites…..

LOL WR!

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Keb]

Yeah, it absolutely matters whom you most identify with/like/want to cuddle…because you’re more willing to see things from their perspective, explain away things that others can’t accept, look for the good in them etc.

It’s why Belle was the last one who could see Rumple as a beast and why Emma’s willing to overlook Hook’s villainous deeds and why Robin saw Regina as reformed and not as his wife’s murderer, too. We’re all willing to cut the ones we love a little more slack than sometimes we even should.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[obisgirl]

I used to be extremely reluctant to even bring up the phrase double-standards because it usually used to be followed by heated arguments but I’m glad it’s acknowledged that yes, we do this instead of a negative reaction of the mention.

[Author]

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