Bae as Henry’s father is unacceptable – show is dead to me

[swanning-off]

I don’t think it does require a leap of faith.

Fairy tales are all about destiny, right? And now with the Seer plot line, OUaT has introduced the idea of fighting (and failing to fight) your destiny. Maybe there is a bigger plan, a bigger power than just Rumple. Is Rumple himself, the puppet master of Regina, Snowing etc, himself being guided/manipulated without his awareness by another (cough – Blue Fairy!!)

So if there is a bigger plan, then maybe it isn’t just blind luck that Emma and Baelfire fall in love?

[antbee]

@EastOfTheSun wrote:

Im sorry you feel that way Malchore…=( sorry to disagree but to me this storyline thought predictable, is genius!! It makes me love the show even more! the poetry and the irony of “the savior of the curse” + “the reason behind the curse”, meeting in our world, is pure magic, for me it talks about fate and destiny, and that when two people are meant to meet, nothing can stop that…maybe im just a hopeless romantic, and like these types of stories… Also that makes Henry 100% from fairytale land, like the seer said he is more than he seems, so I bet he is going to be powerful!! so all of this is part of his history, his fairytale, and that gets me excited!!

This is why I ship SwanFire so hard! (Yes, Neal has a lot to make up for; although, Emma was no saint herself tonight.)

I’m also disapointed about the fact of Baelfire being Henry’s father. Not only because of the reasons you give, but also because I can’t see how the boy that Bae was has became the man that Neal is.

I know before we got confirmation that Neal was indeed Baelfire that people who hated the idea often did so because they couldn’t see Bae growing up into Neal, but I think it would definitely change someone to be abandoned by the person that that person thought would always be there for him/her like Bae thought with this father. He already had to deal with his mother leaving him, because I’m sure once he grew older, he figured it out that she really wasn’t kidnapped, and then his father abandons him too.

Further, If he were dropped into this world straight from FTL, then that had to change him a lot too, since he was without a family and had no idea about how our world works. If he tells people the truth, I’m sure he realized quickly that he would be labeled as crazy. If he keeps it to himself though, then he always has to keep some kind of distance between himself and others even when he loves them like he did Emma. On the other hand, even if he is Peter Pan or got dropped somewhere else first, it would have the same kind of effect on him, and definitely change him.

[andreth stark]

@malchore wrote:

So, what if THIS is his price – that his grandson (Henry) is the “boy who will be his undoing?” as prophesied by the Seer just before she died? That’s a horrible price.

“undoing” could be interpreted in several ways. It could mean death, but it could also be removing the curse of the dark one from Rumple.

But “undoing” has a negative connotation -at least in the way it was said by the seer…if not the “then, I just have to kill him” would be out of place – and… can removing the curse of the dark one be considered something bad?

[andreth stark]

@AntBee wrote:

I know before we got confirmation that Neal was indeed Baelfire that people who hated the idea often did so because they couldn’t see Bae growing up into Neal, but I think it would definitely change someone to be abandoned by the person that that person thought would always be there for him/her like Bae thought with this father. He already had to deal with his mother leaving him, because I’m sure once he grew older, he figured it out that she really wasn’t kidnapped, and then his father abandons him too.

Further, If he were dropped into this world straight from FTL, then that had to change him a lot too, since he was without a family and had no idea about how our world works. If he tells people the truth, I’m sure he realized quickly that he would be labeled as crazy. If he keeps it to himself though, then he always has to keep some kind of distance between himself and others even when he loves them like he did Emma. On the other hand, even if he is Peter Pan or got dropped somewhere else first, it would have the same kind of effect on him, and definitely change him.

Yep, I get that point, but I don’t know, it is a difficult issue to explian…just… I had so many expectations on Bae -as a child-!
I mean.. he was more emotionally more mature than his dad, even being a child of 14. I just expected time and experience gave him more insight that what he shows. Not only the fact of becoming a thief -that can perfectly fit the scenary you explain, it is completely understandable, he was broken and lonely – but… he doesn’t even give the chance to his father. Ok, he left him, bleblabla, (and besides, that Rumpelstiltskin’s “oh, no prob: let me turn back the clock and recover the wasted years” was an epic fail given the circunstances) but when Emma told him that he made her the same that his father did to him is all like “oh, c’mon sweetheart! I know you’remadat me but it was not that much!”. So, from my pointof view, he has changed from be a mature teenager to be an inmature man.This is just a silly example XDD It is just that i can’t find the proper way to explain what i meant by how he grew up :S :S

[playarita]

@Andreth Stark wrote:

Yep, I get that point, but I don’t know, it is a difficult issue to explian…just… I had so many expectations on Bae -as a child-!
I mean.. he was more emotionally more mature than his dad, even being a child of 14. I just expected time and experience gave him more insight that what he shows. Not only the fact of becoming a thief -that can perfectly fit the scenary you explain, it is completely understandable, he was broken and lonely – but… he doesn’t even give the chance to his father. Ok, he left him, bleblabla, (and besides, that Rumpelstiltskin’s “oh, no prob: let me turn back the clock and recover the wasted years” was an epic fail given the circunstances) but when Emma told him that he made her the same that his father did to him is all like “oh, c’mon sweetheart! I know you’remadat me but it was not that much!”. So, from my pointof view, he has changed from be a mature teenager to be an inmature man.This is just a silly example XDD It is just that i can’t find the proper way to explain what i meant by how he grew up :S :S

I think he remembers Gold as the Dark One and as the conniving, curmudgeon old man that Emma, Henry and we have seen him as. He would have had a lot more vivid memory of Gold turning a man into a cockroach because he accidentally bumped into his son. With memories like that which are bleak in itself and he himself saying that the last thing he remembers before going to bed is when Rumple let him go… Years of having these memories fester and that recurring nightmare… shaped him to someone who did not want to be found.

I don’t really see how his apprehension, and surliness means he is immature. He is an adult who grew up with the belief that Rumple loved his power more, that he chose that power over him. That can have a profound effect on a boy on the cusp of adulthood. Furthermore he was dumped from what a feudalistic FTL into our world (depending on if he is Peter Pan, or he crossed time and space and landed in the early 1980s… that is a lot of world to learn on one’s own especially with his background.

I can see why he is jaded, or why he went into thievery. I don’t think he necessarily wanted to turn out that way but he was so overwhelmed by his memories, the modern world etc that he did everything he could to survive. The fact that he ended up the way he did (he seemed street smart, had enough wit to survive etc) shows that he is intelligent. Had he a proper chance I am sure he would have been a man of great standing. However that is not to say he won’t be a man of great standing…people can change.

[playarita]

@malchore wrote:

Tiara – I don’t understand the need for the spoiler tag on your entire post.

Short answer: For me, fiction needs to be internally consistent. It has to have some level of plausibility within the context of the story and world it inhabits. I am an atheist which means I don’t just accept things on faith alone. And that’s what the writers gave us tonight; an episode that said, “just accept this plot turn on faith, we cannot offer any rational explanation.” I can suspend my disbelief for Fantasy and Sci-Fi stories because they can be written with plausibility and consistency within their world.

And so, Bae meeting Emma on blind luck alone is so implausible it broke my belief in the story.

This story doesn’t rely on faith alone. It is relying on mythology based on the idea of fate and destiny. I think Emma wearing a red scarf was to denote this idea that there is a red thread of destiny/fate.

She was the end of the curse. She was the savior to break the curse and free Storybrooke. Bae on the other hand is the beginning of the curse. He was the motivation in having the curse cast. So in terms of storytelling, that is actually a great plot and really does emphasize that FTL characters are connected to each other with these intricate red threads of fate/destiny.

Emma had to meet Bae. He was the one that could help progress her destiny. By their being together Henry was born. August then had Henry arranged to be adopted by Regina. That eventually led to the curse being broken.

The whole show runs on some faith but more in the belief that as much as one can see into the future, the red thread of fate/destiny will have people land where they need to. All of these characters are much more closely related like a grand puzzle each has their own piece that fits into the bigger picture–perhaps the magic within calls to each other unknowingly, or their roles help create that destiny (an example is the story between Grumpy and Nova–had he not been born a dwarf set to mine the mines, he would have never come across the fairy dust that would lead him to Nova).

[andreth stark]

@playarita wrote:

I don’t really see how his apprehension, and surliness means he is immature. He is an adult who grew up with the belief that Rumple loved his power more, that he chose that power over him. That can have a profound effect on a boy on the cusp of adulthood. Furthermore he was dumped from what a feudalistic FTL into our world (depending on if he is Peter Pan, or he crossed time and space and landed in the early 1980s… that is a lot of world to learn on one’s own especially with his background.

[/quote]

Precisely because he has had time to live in our world -and in others? – , and because in all that time, he had probably seen how low, cruel, twisted and evil can human soul be. How power corrupts the best among mankind, if the power comes too soon, before it could be handled in a wise manner.
Don’t misunderstand me; i’m not saying he should run into his father’s arms. But neither being blinded by frustration and pain. You have time to reject your father’s explanations, reasons, or presence in your life, but as much as let him speak… even if you are not accepting what he says, at least it can help you to know everything. To avoid nightmares.
Maybe it is just my understanding of life, but no matter what happened, being stubborn against something in that way is sort of childish.
As i said, maybe it is just my understanding of life.

[Phee]

@playarita wrote:

This story doesn’t rely on faith alone. It is relying on mythology based on the idea of fate and destiny. I think Emma wearing a red scarf was to denote this idea that there is a red thread of destiny/fate.

She was the end of the curse. She was the savior to break the curse and free Storybrooke. Bae on the other hand is the beginning of the curse. He was the motivation in having the curse cast. So in terms of storytelling, that is actually a great plot and really does emphasize that FTL characters are connected to each other with these intricate red threads of fate/destiny.

Emma had to meet Bae. He was the one that could help progress her destiny. By their being together Henry was born. August then had Henry arranged to be adopted by Regina. That eventually led to the curse being broken.

The whole show runs on some faith but more in the belief that as much as one can see into the future, the red thread of fate/destiny will have people land where they need to. All of these characters are much more closely related like a grand puzzle each has their own piece that fits into the bigger picture–perhaps the magic within calls to each other unknowingly, or their roles help create that destiny (an example is the story between Grumpy and Nova–had he not been born a dwarf set to mine the mines, he would have never come across the fairy dust that would lead him to Nova).

If the forum had a LIKE button, I’d have clicked on it for this post. Well said! 🙂

[playarita]

@Andreth Stark wrote:

@playarita wrote:

I don’t really see how his apprehension, and surliness means he is immature. He is an adult who grew up with the belief that Rumple loved his power more, that he chose that power over him. That can have a profound effect on a boy on the cusp of adulthood. Furthermore he was dumped from what a feudalistic FTL into our world (depending on if he is Peter Pan, or he crossed time and space and landed in the early 1980s… that is a lot of world to learn on one’s own especially with his background.

Precisely because he has had time to live in our world -and in others? – , and because in all that time, he had probably seen how low, cruel, twisted and evil can human soul be. How power corrupts the best among mankind, if the power comes too soon, before it could be handled in a wise manner.
Don’t misunderstand me; i’m not saying he should run into his father’s arms. But neither being blinded by frustration and pain. You have time to reject your father’s explanations, reasons, or presence in your life, but as much as let him speak… even if you are not accepting what he says, at least it can help you to know everything. To avoid nightmares.
Maybe it is just my understanding of life, but no matter what happened, being stubborn against something in that way is sort of childish.
As i said, maybe it is just my understanding of life.[/quote]

That is true and I understand your sentiment I guess I can understand why Neal acted the way he did. Mostly because given his circumstances I would not have found it not believable that someone who did not want to be found would be reasonable to the father he believes abandoned him because of a love and corruption of power.

I thought that his not wanting to listen was also based on the fact that he interrupted his dad who was about to hurt Emma (because she did not hold up her end of the deal). Gold would have used his cane (or attempted it since Emma can hold her own in a fight) but in Neal’s memories when someone crossed Rumple they were squashed, suffocated etc. Neal may have feared that while there was no magic in our world Rumple could have found a way around it–he did find a way around the curse of leaving Storybrooke after all.

Lastly, Neal grew up with knowing how easily Rumple could turn a phrase or use his elocution skills against others so simply being told the reasons, the promises, the declarations would mean nothing without proof. And in the episode Rumple did two things that could easily turn Neal/Bae cold-hearted: he mentioned that there was magic in Storybrooke (the very thing that corrupted Rumple, and became his addiction/crutch) and his threatening harm to Emma when he realized she did not hold up her end of the deal (which reminded him of the people Rumple hurt as the Dark One)…

Rumple is going to have to work on his relationship with Bae. However that could be the sacrifice: knowing that the son you found you alive wants nothing to do with you.

[gypsy]

Part of the brilliance of the story is seeing how everyone is connected in one way or another….just like on LOST.
Nothing was random on that show, either, and these are the same writers 🙂

Didn’t you ever hear of “6 degress of seperation”? Not the movie, the theory 🙂

[Author]

Posts