Baelfire

[charming]

@shery0812 wrote:

Hey, all! I’m new around here and I enjoy reading all of you guys’s theories, particularly about Baelfire, a character I’m deeply invested in.

First off, I just want to say–how MUCH I loathe the Bae-is-Henry’s-father theory. Seriously, I despise and hate it so, so much. My reasons for that range from me having my own and rigid theory as to what happened to Bae, to pretty much not liking the idea of Bae being the lowlife person Emma suggested Henry’s father is.

HOWEVER…I suppose that IS where the show is headed, isn’t it? I mean, the heavy hints dropped by the writers, the pieces all fitting together, story-wise, it almost seems inevitable that Bae WILL wind up being the father. *sigh* blah…

I love the idea of Baelfire having ended up in Neverland somewhow (in fact, it fits perfectly with my theory, which is too tedious and convoluted to explain here), but yea…it also does away with that nasty time frame plothole/glitch which at this point is the only thing that keeps me grasping to the thin thread of hope that Baelfire is in fact not the father.

But I guess we shall see. I may not like how the writers end up re-introducing Bae into the show, but I’m sure I can learn to live with it IF it’s woven in intelligently and creatively. 🙂

I have loathed the idea that Bae is Henry’s Dad since someone brought it up as a theory and has now spread like a skin infection. Yes, it seems to be headed to the fact that it can be true. It is a shark jumper in my opinion. Once you start making everyone related or everyone on the show starts dating and marrying on another; this seems to be true throughout TV history.

[charming]

Let’s have Red and Pinochio start dating and Whale and the Blue Fairy getting into a relationship.
There are more doors to open if that is not the case. If Bae is Henry’s Dad, it starts to limit the show’s possibility’s. The Neverland Theory is a good one and him being Peter Pan is great but leave him out of Fatherhood. He is involved with Wendy. …unless they want to make Emma into a woman before during or after Wendy.

[antbee]

@charming wrote:

I have loathed the idea that Bae is Henry’s Dad since someone brought it up as a theory and has now spread like a skin infection. Yes, it seems to be headed to the fact that it can be true. It is a shark jumper in my opinion. Once you start making everyone related or everyone on the show starts dating and marrying on another; this seems to be true throughout TV history.

All the main characters are already interconnected to each other, and then the minor characters become interconnected to all the other main characters after interacting with just one main character, so for me Bae being Henry’s father wouldn’t put the show into shark jumping territory.

I mean Rumple helped but didn’t force Regina down the Evil Queen path that she chose, probably in order to enact the Curse he created to find his son. He’s helped Snowing become a couple, so that their child Emma could break the Curse he created to find his son. He helped procure Henry for Regina while he was under his own Curse. So even if he’s not Henry’s grandpa, he’s always been connected to all the other core cast members. Obviously, Regina and the Charmings have been connected with each other ever since Regina rescued Snow from her runaway horse. So these connections aren’t going away soon. That’s why I don’t think Bae being Henry’s father would be overkill, and in fact for me, it would fit right in with all the other connections. Plus, it gives everyone a reason to join together against a common foe. Rumple might help save Henry against Cora and/or Hook because he doesn’t want either of those two around, but then again, Rumple being Rumple, he could just stay out of it or pick whatever side was better for him at the time not necessarily the Charmings. However, if Henry is his grandson, then he definitely has to become allies with the Charmings and probably Regina at the time against Cora and Hook.

Further, there’s also the criticism that it’s too coincidental, but again I think it relates back to everyone being connected. Like Rumple procuring Henry for Regina was awfully coincidental, but it’s a show about fate, destiny, and fairy tales, so under that context Bae meeting up with Emma, and being the father of Henry makes a lot of sense because she was the Cursebreaker, and he’s the reason for the Curse. Plus, magical people may just feel a certain pull towards one another in our world that lead them to each other.

[Josephine]

It seems like Bae as Henry’s dad is either something you love or hate. I personally love it. Like Bee said, all of these characters are already interconnected. I wrote on fanforum thread last week to someone complaining about everyone knowing each other and connected to each other that it’s true in real life, too. If you’re from a small community then everyone is connected. You’re related to half the people and know the other half. You know who’s dating who, who’s car was parked out so-and-so’s house at midnight, that this person is running around with his wife’s best friend. That’s just life.

So I have no problem with Bae, the catalyst for everything that has happened in regards to the curse, being connected to the curse’s savior. Having them produce a child who is then adopted by the curse’s enactor is just another layer.

And based on everything Eddie and Adam have said, we know the baby-daddy is connected in someway to FTL. Last season we “may or may not have met him” and Jen needing to know from the pilot who Henry’s father was points to him being someone pivotal to the plot. At the time, they didn’t have the rights to Peter Pan, so I’m ruling out Hook as the baby-daddy. Every clue points to Bae.

For people who hate the “Henry’s father is Bae” theory because they don’t like the thought that Bae turned into a lowlife, you have to remember that Emma was only 17 and grew up in troubled system. I don’t know if I completely agree with her side of the story. Plus, Bae was only 14 when he was thrown into a completely different world, so unlike anything he was raised in. He may have hated magic, but I wonder how he reacted to technology. He was probably either raised in the foster system, or hooked up with a group of runaways…and maybe that’s where August comes into the story. I can see him joining their ragtag runaway group.

We’ll just have to wait for “Tallahassee” to see what the actual story is. And knowing these writers, we’re only going to get bits and pieces.

Keeper of Rumplestiltskin's and Neal's spears and war paint and crystal ball.

[faux pax]

It seems like Bae as Henry’s dad is either something you love or hate.

That’s true, but the greatest thing about this show is that either way it goes, it still is going to be written Epicly. I mean for those who hate the theory, if it turns out to be true then the drama will be so juicy i think most people will like it (i’m not going to say all–some people are just impossible to please). If it turns out that he’s not, then even those who, like me, love the theory will be blown away by the truth. I doubt there will actually be a true loser in this particular argument, no matter who is wrong or right.

For people who hate the “Henry’s father is Bae” theory because they don’t like the thought that Bae turned into a lowlife, you have to remember that Emma was only 17 and grew up in troubled system. I don’t know if I completely agree with her side of the story.

That’s just it though, we only know her side of the story. Maybe there was more going on there that she didn’t know, or maybe she was judging the situation a bit too harshly because she was already so invested in it.

I know a lot of people don’t want them to go the whole “misunderstanding” route. i understand that (no pun intended) but nothing in life is black and white and that’s one of the things the show is best at depicting. I mean the big bads are some of the most popular characters because they are some of the most complex.

[charming]

@AntBee wrote:

All the main characters are already interconnected to each other, and then the minor characters become interconnected to all the other main characters after interacting with just one main character, so for me Bae being Henry’s father wouldn’t put the show into shark jumping territory.

I mean Rumple helped but didn’t force Regina down the Evil Queen path that she chose, probably in order to enact the Curse he created to find his son. He’s helped Snowing become a couple, so that their child Emma could break the Curse he created to find his son. He helped procure Henry for Regina while he was under his own Curse. So even if he’s not Henry’s grandpa, he’s always been connected to all the other core cast members. Obviously, Regina and the Charmings have been connected with each other ever since Regina rescued Snow from her runaway horse. So these connections aren’t going away soon. That’s why I don’t think Bae being Henry’s father would be overkill, and in fact for me, it would fit right in with all the other connections. Plus, it gives everyone a reason to join together against a common foe. Rumple might help save Henry against Cora and/or Hook because he doesn’t want either of those two around, but then again, Rumple being Rumple, he could just stay out of it or pick whatever side was better for him at the time not necessarily the Charmings. However, if Henry is his grandson, then he definitely has to become allies with the Charmings and probably Regina at the time against Cora and Hook.

There is a difference from being interconnected and related or in a relationship. I have watched every episode and yes everyone is connected but not everyone is related by blood. There is a huge difference. The show is to have every single character to be revealed to be blood related or is family.

[fairy dust]

I just posted this on a different thread but wanted to post it here as well.

I believe Allan Ginsberg’s poetry is the key to understanding the Neal Cassady character…and I do believe that it all points to Baelfire.

I’m pressed for time so I don’t have time to pull out every line (maybe I can do that later on) but here is a portion of Allan Ginsberg’s Kaddish, his mourner’s poem for his mother. Neal Cassady is not mentioned in this portion…but is referred to later on as N.C. This portion of the poem describes almost perfectly the path that Neal Cassady/Mystery Man walked through New York City, exiting Central Park at 7th Street, ending up on the lower East Side, even looking over his shoulder, the reference to horses from Emily Dickenson’s poem…the horses in the poem drive the carriage that is death…the last lines of Adonis fit Baelfire exactly. I could go on and on but I don’t have time. Kaddish and Howl are Ginsberg’s two most famous poems and they both are based on his early experiences.

The second section of Ginsberg’s Howl could also be speaking of Baelfire/Neal Cassady/Mystery Man. It is entitled Molech. Molech was a stone god whose belly contained fire. Little babies/children were sacrificed to Molech…they were laid in his sloping arms where they rolled into the fire. Rumple sacrificed his son, Baelfire, to save his Magic. It is also very possible that the name Baelfire was chosen with this synmbolism…as Molech and Baal(Bael) both trace back to the same Pagan god. And Bae was allowed to slip into the “fire”.

If these nods turn out to be correct I think the picture we are getting from Ginsberg, who was a beat poet and friend of Neal Cassady, is that Neal/Baelfire was a child sacrificed by his father and that child was thrust into a world where he is totally alone. The world, nothing like what he knew…and unlike August Booth, his father did not lovingly put him in a magic wardrobe and send him away with love….rather his father dug his rumple blade into the dirt to keep himself from following his son…and let go of his hand, sacrificing Bae for his own greed/fear/magic.

This brings me to another thought. There are multiple mentions of people jumping off of fire escapes in Beat Poetry…and Mystery Man/Neal Cassady/Baelfire dropping his communication could have been setting a scene where we are supposed to see the despair of the people that were at that hopeless place. I totally believe he is mourning. Bae’s world is totally lost….but then just like in the story of Noah and the Ark, where Noah’s world is completely lost, everyone gone…a dove flies to the window. And like Noah’s dove who bears an olive leaf…Neal/Baelfire’s dove bears a message of hope. The curse has been broken.

Strange now to think of you, gone without corsets & eyes, while I walk on
the sunny pavement of Greenwich Village.
downtown Manhattan, clear winter noon, and I’ve been up all night, talking,
talking, reading the Kaddish aloud, listening to Ray Charles blues
shout blind on the phonograph
the rhythm the rhythm–and your memory in my head three years after–
And read Adonais’ last triumphant stanzas aloud–wept, realizing
how we suffer–
And how Death is that remedy all singers dream of, sing, remember,
prophesy as in the Hebrew Anthem, or the Buddhist Book of An-
swers–and my own imagination of a withered leaf–at dawn–
Dreaming back thru life, Your time–and mine accelerating toward Apoca-
lypse,
the final moment–the flower burning in the Day–and what comes after,
looking back on the mind itself that saw an American city
a flash away, and the great dream of Me or China, or you and a phantom
Russia, or a crumpled bed that never existed–
like a poem in the dark–escaped back to Oblivion-–
No more to say, and nothing to weep for but the Beings in the Dream,
trapped in its disappearance,
sighing, screaming with it, buying and selling pieces of phantom, worship-
ping each other,
worshipping the God included in it all–longing or inevitability?–while it
lasts, a Vision–anything more?
It leaps about me, as I go out and walk the street, look back over my shoulder,
Seventh Avenue, the battlements of window office buildings shoul-
dering each other high, under a cloud, tall as the sky an instant–and
the sky above–an old blue place.
or down the Avenue to the south, to–as I walk toward the Lower East Side
–where you walked 50 years ago, little girl–from Russia, eating the
first poisonous tomatoes of America frightened on the dock
then struggling in the crowds of Orchard Street toward what?–toward
Newark–
toward candy store, first home-made sodas of the century, hand-churned ice
cream in backroom on musty brownfloor boards–
Toward education marriage nervous breakdown, operation, teaching school,
and learning to be mad, in a dream–what is this life?
Toward the Key in the window–and the great Key lays its head of light
on top of Manhattan, and over the floor, and lays down on the
sidewalk–in a single vast beam, moving, as I walk down First toward
the Yiddish Theater–and the place of poverty
you knew, and I know, but without caring now–Strange to have moved
thru Paterson, and the West, and Europe and here again,
with the cries of Spaniards now in the doorstops doors and dark boys on
the street, fire escapes old as you
–Tho you’re not old now, that’s left here with me–
Myself, anyhow, maybe as old as the universe–and I guess that dies with
us–enough to cancel all that comes–What came is gone forever
every time-–

Here is a link to the entire Kaddish – http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15307

Here is a link to the post I wrote describing the Mystery Man’s path. It was written before the character was revealed as Neal Cassady whom I believe is Baelfire. Most of the items are very understandable now as they reflect the communication arts culture. https://oncepodcast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1514&start=110#p21041

Even the color green that Baelfire fell into ties in with the Beat Generation. Robert Stone’s — Prime Green: Remembering the Sixties mentions Neal Cassady.[/quote]

[magoo]

I dont know if I remember everything said about Henry’s father, but. Could Bae have knocked up Emma and she decided not to tell him she was with child. Maybe she ran away from him because she was pregnant and scared.

[angiebelle]

I do like the idea of Bae as Henry’s father because it connects him to the rest of the show- otherwise, the character of Henry’s father is just incidental. Also, having Rumple realize he has a grandson might help him discover the sparks of humanity that he has left.

My one problem with the idea of Bae being Peter Pan is that the magic bean is supposed to have sent him to a place with no magic. Neverland has magic, therefore it doesn’t make sense that Bae ended up there. He has to have been sent to our world- that is the whole reason the curse took everyone there to begin with.

[gypsy]

I also like the Bae/Henry’s father theory. It just make’s more sense than having him be just ‘some guy’. I agree adding in the fact that could also be Peter Pan could account for the time discrepancy. TheGoldenKey has posted a whole theory, that she’s had since February, on this subject. As far as being sent to a land without magic, Blue Fairy told Bae to follow the bean “…where ever it leads you.” Could be, like Jefferson’s hat, there were more than one ‘portal’ to choose from and that’s how Bae ended up in Never Never Land and ultimately, being PP. Also, there are more beans than that one. We know one becomes the beanstalk. PP could’ve gotten hold of another one that ultimately sent him to our world. And, our world does have a bit of magic…I mean, there is a tree in the woods, in the middle of nowhere that 2 other FTL characters came through and appeared in our world.

[Author]

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