Baelfire

[faux pax]

I kind of brought this up in another thread and the conversation got pretty interesting. Instead of reposting about a dozen posts, here’s the link:

https://oncepodcast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1880&start=240

[fairy dust]

@Faux Pax wrote:

I kind of brought this up in another thread and the conversation got pretty interesting. Instead of reposting about a dozen posts, here’s the link:

https://oncepodcast.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1880&start=240

I’ve also wondered if some kind of magic caused him to lose those memories of the Enchanted Forest…maybe a potion like what Snow drank to forget Charming.

[PriceofMagic]

Assuming Neal is Bae, what if Neal’s bad dreams are his memories of Fairytale land? Rumple would appear often in his nightmares which would make their reunion more difficult.

We know everyone was cursed to lose their memories when they came to our world and if they cross the town border they lose their memories again so it is possible that Bae, being from fairytale land, lost his memories when he came to our world.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[gypsy]

I don’t get why Bae would lose his memories by coming to our world…..he wasn’t effected by the curse.
Same with Pinocchio , he wasn’t effected by the curse and he didn’t lose his memory of FTL.

[PriceofMagic]

@Gypsy wrote:

I don’t get why Bae would lose his memories by coming to our world…..he wasn’t effected by the curse.
Same with Pinocchio , he wasn’t effected by the curse and he didn’t lose his memory of FTL.

Good point. People do have theories that Bae may have gone to Neverland either as a lost boy or Peter Pan himself. Isn’t Neverland supposed to make you forget?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[fairy dust]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

Assuming Neal is Bae, what if Neal’s bad dreams are his memories of Fairytale land? Rumple would appear often in his nightmares which would make their reunion more difficult.

We know everyone was cursed to lose their memories when they came to our world and if they cross the town border they lose their memories again so it is possible that Bae, being from fairytale land, lost his memories when he came to our world.

I agree with you about the bad dreams being memories of Fairytale land…. we are given so many hints throughout the show that connect dreams to real places and real memories.

Graham: It didn’t feel like a dream. It felt like a memory.

Mr. Gold: I’m afraid not. I do wish I could be more helpful. You know, Sheriff, they say that dreams… Dreams are memories. Memories of another life.

Rumpelstiltskin: Don’t doubt yourself now, dearie. Love makes us sick, haunts our dreams, destroys our days. Love has killed more than any disease. This cure is a gift.

Grumpy: The one I saw right before I hatched. She was beautiful. I want to see her again.
Bossy: Ha! You must be dreaming – there are no female dwarves. Dwarves don’t fall in love, dwarves don’t get married, and dwarves don’t have children. Why do you think you were hatched from an egg?

Grumpy: You’re the woman I saw in my dreams right before I hatched last year.

Emma: Hey, stop. It’s me. Here’s the thing – the last time David went for a dream walk, he went to the Toll Bridge. You know the one? It’s a crazy hunch, but I want you to take my bug and go and see if he was there.

Evil Queen: It won’t kill you. No, what it will do is far worse. Your body will be your tomb, and you’ll be in there with nothing but dreams formed of your own regrets.

Emma: It’s a Native American dream catcher. It’s supposed to keep all the nightmares out, and only let the good dreams in to protect your home.
Neal: It’s flypaper for nightmares?
Emma: Mmhmm.
Neal: Let’s keep it.

MMB: Hey. Aurora? It was just a dream. It was just a dream.

Henry: And… And… And… And I was looking out, and there was someone else there. She was staring at me through the flames. Th-Then I woke up and…
David: Hey, don’t worry, alright? It was just a bad dream.

Henry: So y-you can help? It was just a dream.
Mr. Gold: Well, what you’re describing is certainly not a dream.

Mr. Gold: When people fall under a sleeping curse, the soul travels to a Netherworld, where it resides until awoken. Now, this world is between life and death, and it’s very real.

Aurora: Snow! Snow!
MMB: Hey. I’m here. It’s okay, it’s okay. It was just another nightmare.

Emma: That’s impossible. It was a dream. How could you dream of my son?
Aurora: I have no idea.
MMB: Maybe it wasn’t a dream.

Mulan: A room in a dream is real?

I do think that if Baelfire has memory loss it will be because of a different reason than those in Storybrooke. He would not have been under the same effects of the curse that they were. That is why Henry knew that everyone was stuck in time. He was living in Storybrooke but he was not under the curse because he was not brought over from the Enchanted Forest.

If Baelfire’s memory loss is from the curse then it would indicate that the curse affected the other lands in a similar way that it effected the Enchanted Forest.

[Myril]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

We know everyone was cursed to lose their memories when they came to our world and if they cross the town border they lose their memories again so it is possible that Bae, being from fairytale land, lost his memories when he came to our world.

As Gypsy wrote, August didn’t lose his memory. That theory only works, if we assume, the enchanted tree did more than work as a portal, protecting in other ways from the curse as well, while the curse affected everyone from magical realms wherever they were, even in our non-magical world. Find that unlikely.

@fairy dust wrote:

I do think that if Baelfire has memory loss it will be because of a different reason than those in Storybrooke. He would not have been under the same effects of the curse that they were. That is why Henry knew that everyone was stuck in time. He was living in Storybrooke but he was not under the curse because he was not brought over from the Enchanted Forest.

If Baelfire’s memory loss is from the curse then it would indicate that the curse effected the other lands in a similar way that it effected the Enchanted Forest.

To be a bit technical: The people in Storybrooke didn’t lose their memories, the memories were repressed and concealed by new memories.

Kitsis&Horowitz say in a featurette about the Mad Hatter, that the curse went far, to places and realms they had only hinted at up to episode “Hat Trick” (1×17). Of course that doesn’t have to mean, that all places and realms where affected in the very same way, but I think it’s likely. Besides those under the protective shield Cora created, we only met the giant as not affected by the curse – and we can wonder why (possible that Cora’s shield somehow protected him too, or the giant’s realm is an exception, as might be the Other- or Netherland they went to due to Sleeping Curse). So far everybody affected by the curse was confined to Storybrooke for the past 28 years and still is. So if Bae was in another magical realm when the curse was enacted, wouldn’t it be more likely, that he were in Storybrooke all the time? If so, Neal couldn’t be Bae.

If Neverland were a place for people to lose their memories, then Hook should have forgotten about his wish for revenge. Unless the forgetting thing works only on children. I’m no expert in matters of Peter Pan (has been a while I read the novel), but don’t think Neverland was a place where people where meant to forget in the sense of losing their memory (or repressing it), but it is a place where you can happily ignore time and everything else, make fun and happiness all that is important and kinda forget about the rest, it’s a place of escapism. Wasn’t it, that when you left Neverland you forget after a while more and more about it until you barely remember it at all, and as adult stop to believe in it?

I don’t think Bae forgot or repressed his memories. There is no need for that, not wanting to be reminded of his Fairy Tale Land past is enough in my opinion. His father turned into a monster to protect him, and even before Bae seemed to have a few difficulties with how his father was acting, despite quite sure loving him. The last time he saw his father, his father had betrayed him, breaking his promise, their deal, and Bae called him a coward. Mr Gold himself told Archie, that he thinks, that Bae still might be pretty angry – and he could be right about that. If he is still angry, why should he be interested in seeing his father again besides giving him a piece of his mind? It’s a more interesting character development, if Bae is angry, disappointed of his father and not so eager to reunite with him, particular assuming, that Bae is not in Storybrooke. Will give his father some more headaches how to reconcile with him. And Bae will have to work on his issues as well. (I just want this show to run some more seasons, so let us adjourn happy endings for a while longer, okay?)

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[PriceofMagic]

Isn’t Neverland meant to make you forget about home so that you never want to leave? Neverland wouldn’t have made Hook forget about his revenge.

I think Bae would have wanted to forget about his past. He saw his father turn from a kind man into a monster who thought nothiing of cold blooded murder. Bae would have found himself in a new land where he could be whoever he wanted to be and not the dark one’s son. Given enough time, Bae could have created his own backstory and believed it to be true. His true past coming back to him in the form of nightmares.

In season 1, Emma’s denial was so strong it caused her not to see August’s wooden leg even though it was right in front of her. What if Neal’s denial of his past is just as strong?

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[antbee]

@PriceofMagic wrote:

Isn’t Neverland meant to make you forget about home so that you never want to leave? Neverland wouldn’t have made Hook forget about his revenge.

I think Bae would have wanted to forget about his past. He saw his father turn from a kind man into a monster who thought nothiing of cold blooded murder. Bae would have found himself in a new land where he could be whoever he wanted to be and not the dark one’s son. Given enough time, Bae could have created his own backstory and believed it to be true. His true past coming back to him in the form of nightmares.

In season 1, Emma’s denial was so strong it caused her not to see August’s wooden leg even though it was right in front of her. What if Neal’s denial of his past is just as strong?

I don’t know about Neverland, but I do think that Nealfire’s past was so traumatic that he could have repressed his memories and created new ones. Plus, it might not just about those memories being so traumatic, it could have been a matter of survival in Nealfire’s mind too because I’m sure he either realized that people would brand him as crazy if he told them the truth. Maybe he did tell some people the truth, and of course they probably thought he was crazy and eventually convinced him that he created these fake memories to deal with the stress of losing his family. Or maybe he kept silent, but observed how “different” people were treated by those around them, and convinced himself over time that it was all just fake memories that he made up. (Of course, this is actually if he did have his memories when he first arrived in this world because it’s possible that he has amnesia depending on how he landed. He wasn’t worldy or mature nor did he have a ship like Hook did, so maybe he landed on his head and really did lose his memories except they come back to him when he’s dreaming.)

Now with August who was also sent here as a young boy, I think the reason he didn’t repress his memories, at least not that we know of, is because he was young enough that people around him could write off his stories due to his age, and eventually, he’d learn not to talk about his past to people. He would know that he was actually telling the truth, but to fit in, he would just learn to hold his tongue about it, but not repress his memories like Nealfire may have. Plus, while his life was traumatic in many ways, I think his life was generally all around better, especially because his father sent him away to keep him alive, unlike Nealfire’s father who let Nealfire come here on his own because he’d rather have power over him.

Further, if Nealfire is repressing his memories, for me that doesn’t mean, that he won’t be angry at his father, because I’m sure if he is repressing his memories, once he starts accepting those memories are real, he will be very angry with his father not only for choosing power over him in the first place, but also for everything that his father did to be reunited with Nealfire.

[fairy dust]

@AntBee wrote:

@PriceofMagic wrote:

Isn’t Neverland meant to make you forget about home so that you never want to leave? Neverland wouldn’t have made Hook forget about his revenge.

I think Bae would have wanted to forget about his past. He saw his father turn from a kind man into a monster who thought nothiing of cold blooded murder. Bae would have found himself in a new land where he could be whoever he wanted to be and not the dark one’s son. Given enough time, Bae could have created his own backstory and believed it to be true. His true past coming back to him in the form of nightmares.

In season 1, Emma’s denial was so strong it caused her not to see August’s wooden leg even though it was right in front of her. What if Neal’s denial of his past is just as strong?

I don’t know about Neverland, but I do think that Nealfire’s past was so traumatic that he could have repressed his memories and created new ones. Plus, it might not just about those memories being so traumatic, it could have been a matter of survival in Nealfire’s mind too because I’m sure he either realized that people would brand him as crazy if he told them the truth. Maybe he did tell some people the truth, and of course they probably thought he was crazy and eventually convinced him that he created these fake memories to deal with the stress of losing his family. Or maybe he kept silent, but observed how “different” people were treated by those around them, and convinced himself over time that it was all just fake memories that he made up. (Of course, this is actually if he did have his memories when he first arrived in this world because it’s possible that he has amnesia depending on how he landed. He wasn’t worldy or mature nor did he have a ship like Hook did, so maybe he landed on his head and really did lose his memories except they come back to him when he’s dreaming.)

Now with August who was also sent here as a young boy, I think the reason he didn’t repress his memories, at least not that we know of, is because he was young enough that people around him could write off his stories due to his age, and eventually, he’d learn not to talk about his past to people. He would know that he was actually telling the truth, but to fit in, he would just learn to hold his tongue about it, but not repress his memories like Nealfire may have. Plus, while his life was traumatic in many ways, I think his life was generally all around better, especially because his father sent him away to keep him alive, unlike Nealfire’s father who let Nealfire come here on his own because he’d rather have power over him.

Further, if Nealfire is repressing his memories, for me that doesn’t mean, that he won’t be angry at his father, because I’m sure if he is repressing his memories, once he starts accepting those memories are real, he will be very angry with his father not only for choosing power over him in the first place, but also for everything that his father did to be reunited with Nealfire.

I like your idea…it reminds me of a girl my daughter grew up with. She was raised in Russia and adopted here in the US when she was 10 years old. After she arrived she never spoke Russian again…never talked about the family she remembered…just completely left that life behind. She is in her twenties now and has forgotten a lot of things. Baelfire has been out in the world for hundreds of years so it is very possible that the first 14 years of his life are a faded memory.

[Author]

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