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To expand on #1, I do believe a big part of the problem is with the way the entire storyline was written. It’s just too loose and there are way too many questions that I believe A&E didn’t really think through…perhaps because as mentioned, S1 was about mothers and sons, and there was far less ‘shipping involved. But you write characters that people love, and eventually people are going to ask questions. So that storyline regarding Neal/August/Emma/jail needed to be tight. Perhaps the tightest storyline to date. But instead it’s one of the weakest – it had to play out this particular way “or bad things would happen?” Sorry A&E, simply not enough. Even for a casual viewer, because at that time I was still definitely in casual viewer territory, and I definitely wasn’t buying it.
I can’t quite remember when they decided to make Neal & Bae the same person, but it seems as if they came up with the ‘baby Daddy let’s Emma go to jail’ before they meshed him with Bae, who was a beloved character by almost all. Which is where the storyline falls apart for me, because that’s the first decision we see Neal make that seems very disjointed. Yes, by then teenage Bae & adult Neal had been through a lot but in order for the storyline to make sense, they had to show a lot more backstory for me to accept it. Especially when you then see that Neal is the guy who steps up and takes responsibility when he realizes he has a son, and shows he would do anything for his family.
Maybe August’s involvement is my problem…there had to be far more conversation between Neal & August for Neal to think jail seemed like a good plan for me. Maybe because I usually wanted to slug that smirk off his face most of the time…
[adrotate group="5"]I can’t quite remember when they decided to make Neal & Bae the same person, but it seems as if they came up with the ‘baby Daddy let’s Emma go to jail’ before they meshed him with Bae, who was a beloved character by almost all. Which is where the storyline falls apart for me, because that’s the first decision we see Neal make that seems very disjointed. Yes, by then teenage Bae & adult Neal had been through a lot but in order for the storyline to make sense, they had to show a lot more backstory for me to accept it. Especially when you then see that Neal is the guy who steps up and takes responsibility when he realizes he has a son, and shows he would do anything for his family.
That was VERY early on. They told both JMo and Bobby that Bae was Henry’s father right after they shot the pilot. He was in the works since the beginning.
I, personally, think they had much bigger plans for Nealfire, his backstory and what he went through, fleshing out what exactly was going on with Tamara…but things happened. The media and people turned elsewhere and *despised* the Tamara storyline. And so because of that, they shifted focus. Nasty Habits was my favorite of the S3 but the big failing there was a missed opportunity–it should have been a Neal flashback, getting of NL as a boy, landing in our world, showing us what he went through.
Maybe August’s involvement is my problem…there had to be far more conversation between Neal & August for Neal to think jail seemed like a good plan for me. Maybe because I usually wanted to slug that smirk off his face most of the time…
There was something else going on , because tweets from Adam say “Neal did not call the cops. We haven’t shown what happened, but that wasn’t it.” So , for me, there was something else that they were going to tell–my thought at the time was that THO was behind it all and August was working for them. But…again, rug swept for SHINY.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"To expand on #1, I do believe a big part of the problem is with the way the entire storyline was written. It’s just too loose and there are way too many questions that I believe A&E didn’t really think through…perhaps because as mentioned, S1 was about mothers and sons, and there was far less ‘shipping involved. But you write characters that people love, and eventually people are going to ask questions. So that storyline regarding Neal/August/Emma/jail needed to be tight. Perhaps the tightest storyline to date. But instead it’s one of the weakest – it had to play out this particular way “or bad things would happen?” Sorry A&E, simply not enough. Even for a casual viewer, because at that time I was still definitely in casual viewer territory, and I definitely wasn’t buying it. I can’t quite remember when they decided to make Neal & Bae the same person, but it seems as if they came up with the ‘baby Daddy let’s Emma go to jail’ before they meshed him with Bae, who was a beloved character by almost all. Which is where the storyline falls apart for me, because that’s the first decision we see Neal make that seems very disjointed. Yes, by then teenage Bae & adult Neal had been through a lot but in order for the storyline to make sense, they had to show a lot more backstory for me to accept it. Especially when you then see that Neal is the guy who steps up and takes responsibility when he realizes he has a son, and shows he would do anything for his family. Maybe August’s involvement is my problem…there had to be far more conversation between Neal & August for Neal to think jail seemed like a good plan for me. Maybe because I usually wanted to slug that smirk off his face most of the time…
This! I actually think hiding Neal’s true identity til episodes after Tallahassee while also never showing the transition from little Bae to grown up Neal ultimately backfired. Yes they couldn’t spoil his identity for the sake of the mystery behind Rumple’s search for his son, but that meant not getting a chunk of that backstory when it could have shed some light at the time. Unless you’re a hardcore Nealfire fan who really studies the character and has a lot of headcanons for that gap in his backstory, a lot of viewers saw Neal and Bae as if they were two separate characters. There are plenty of fans who loved Young Bae, but didn’t care for Neal at all. The August fakeout in The Return didn’t help matters either. Believe it or not, I’ve heard from a few fans that August being Bae felt more believable than Neal being Bae. Again, I feel a lot of it comes down to the transition between character’s lifespan. A big thing for me is that Neal comes across as too modern compared to his kid self. You can come up with your headcanons to explain this, and I’ve heard several, but to a casual fan it’s still jarring. If we never actually SEE the transition ourselves, that’s not going to change.
Unless you’re a hardcore Nealfire fan who really studies the character and has a lot of headcanons for that gap in his backstory, a lot of viewers saw Neal and Bae as if they were two separate characters.
Well, I don’t know about that. A and E considered changing the story because everyone seemed to have “figured it out.” There were tons of clues. You have an episode dedicated to a missing son, very next episode is dedicated to a missing father. Obviously, one and the same.
There were TONS of clue in Tallahassee. For what it’s worth, I knew the second we saw him in Broken walking through NYC. I actually remember saying, “hi Baelfire”
A big thing for me is that Neal comes across as too modern compared to his kid self. You can come up with your headcanons to explain this, and I’ve heard several, but to a casual fan it’s still jarring. If we never actually SEE the transition ourselves, that’s not going to change.
I don’t know that you need headcanon to explain that he grew up in our world and tried to fit in the best he can in order to hide who he really was. But yes you do need to see it, but that’s a fault in the writing. They were probably going to intend to show that but…SHINY
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"– it had to play out this particular way “or bad things would happen?” Sorry A&E, simply not enough. Even for a casual viewer, because at that time I was still definitely in casual viewer territory, and I definitely wasn’t buying it
Just as input here, the whole “bad things would happen” thing, while vague, does make sense.
I once read a series where there was a certain character (think exactly Rumpelstiltskin, but WAY more powerful and way more evil) who could foretell the future. But he had to be careful about what he meddled in and how he did or else….”something” would happen and it wouldn’t be good for anyone (all we know is that it involved some kinds of “creatures” more powerful than himself that were…well…outside the walls of the universe, and seeing that he was the most powerful being like ever, those puppies most have been pretty bad-a**. It was extremely vague yet terryfying) so personally I wouldn’t have needed them to exactly define what would have happened if Neal stayed. It was Emma’s destiny to break the curse…. Screwing that up? Well I trust the universe or the powers that be wouldn’t allow anyone off the hook for that so easily… The consequences would have been huge and probably horrific…. Which is kinda cool >:)
Okay, continue on folks.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICBranching out into some more controversial areas involving Neal (feel free to pick and choose here) 1) Were there other options for Neal besides leaving Emma in “Tallahassee” (if we accept that the curse MUST be broke) 2) Do you think Neal ever tried to look for Emma? 3) Was little Bae right to ask his father to give up magic? 4) Does Neal owe Rumple unconditional love and acceptance (a la Belle?) 5) Most characters in lit and TV have a ἁμαρτία (harmatia) or fatal flaw (for example, Rumple’s might be his pride) What is Neal’s fatal flaw?
Well back to the first few questions I missed.
Neal strength and flaw was he was human and self sacrificing nature.
Things I would like to see with Neal, his before and after escape from Neverland.
Why did he choose Neal Cassidy, and who taught him our world. Back before the spoiler of doom was release I thought it would be Grandma Dorothy who took Nealfire in, because she knew of the other realms. And Neal Cassidy was the name of her son or grandson who died.
1) I actually prefer Neal not leave Emma. The angst could have been they both were in jail thinking the other person set them up, and could be the always just missing each other. When she was in Tallahassee he was in Portland, when he was in Tallahassee she was in Portland. They could still have that big dynamic energetic impactful climatic meeting that was in Manhattan.
2) I thought he might have tried because Adam said he did look for her in one of his tweets. I assume that he dead end or got scared off by Pan’s Shadow. I thought Pan was the Bad things would have happen. Figure Pan would have had both Neal and Emma if they stayed together and stolen Henry for himself. Keep in Mind Pan knew about Henry from birth, so I figure perhaps he was the big baddie thing that would have happen if they stay together as love birds.
3) Yes Bae was in right to asked his father to give up magic just as much as any child would asked their parent to stop drinking or doing drugs. Rumple saved the children of the village and BAE; but he was also killing people as well. That’s enough to mess with your head. Still I remember Bae pleading with his father to not kill the carriage driver. Beside its the Dark Curse not the Dark Blessing. 😀
4) Does Neal owe Rumple unconditional love, Neal loved his father, he was just angry with him, heck Belle gets angry with him. Wait to season 4 she will be pissed, but she loves. Just like Neal loves his father. I confused by this one unconditional and accepting. I love my family, I pretty think I would always love my family, but there are parts of them I won’t accept. Just think of children serial killers, they love them, but they will not accept the killing half. Think of children who are abused often times they love their abusers, they just want the abuse to stop. They don’t accept the abuse but they still love their abusers.
5) His fatal flaw: His abandonment issue messed him up, his fear of rejection and strong desire for having a family and wanting everyone else to have a family. He figure Emma would have a chance at finding her family so he left thinking she will get her home. Yet his strong fear of rejection kept him from facing her and dealing with her wrath. When he was separated by the once more, he missed his family so much that he was willing to use the key to get back to them.
These are subject to change upon whim…LOL 😛
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
Contemplating should I or should I not jump into this…
All I’m going to add…is that GOAT was a complete waste of time, and were basically filler. I think without Tamara, a lot of other people would have been more open to liking Neal as a character. I loved both Bae and Neal, but as MP said…some fans saw them as two different characters.
GOAT was unnecessary, and were just a random way to bring us to Neverland. Because as far as I see it…the Shadow could travel in between realms, why was GOAT necessary????? Pan could have just sent the shadow to kidnap Henry in the middle of the night, and our gang would all still board the Jolly Roger to go after him.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Just as input here, the whole “bad things would happen” thing, while vague, does make sense.
I wouldn’t even say that it’s vague. If he didn’t, no breaking of the curse. At that point, in 2001, Henry is a complete unknown. No one has any idea how this curse is supposed to broken, just that Emma is apparently the girl to do it. So from Neal’s perspective he either get to keep the love of his life and doom thousands to remain cursed in a tiny Maine town, OR he looses the love his life and hopes she can save the thousands doomed in a tiny Maine town.
He gets screwed either way.
All I’m going to add…is that GOAT was a complete waste of time, and were basically filler. I think without Tamara, a lot of other people would have been more open to liking Neal as a character. I loved both Bae and Neal, but as MP said…some fans saw them as two different characters.
Two things
1) They tried to make Tamara ALL OF THE THINGS. She was fiancee, she was a backstaber, she was anti-magic. Pick ONE THING A and E, goodness.
2) Yes, some fans saw them as different and that’s fine, but I rather resent the implication that only die hard Nealfire fans can see them as the same. That’s just simply not true and a rather large statement to make without hard evidence. It seems to suggest that those who can see them as the same are the minority and that their views on the character are therefore biased by their love of Neal, rather than seeing the “clear” differences.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"All I’m going to add…is that GOAT was a complete waste of time, and were basically filler. I think without Tamara, a lot of other people would have been more open to liking Neal as a character. I loved both Bae and Neal, but as MP said…some fans saw them as two different characters.
Two things 1) They tried to make Tamara ALL OF THE THINGS. She was fiancee, she was a backstaber, she was anti-magic. Pick ONE THING A and E, goodness.
2) Yes, some fans saw them as different and that’s fine, but I rather resent the implication that only die hard Nealfire fans can see them as the same. That’s just simply not true and a rather large statement to make without hard evidence. It seems to suggest that those who can see them as the same are the minority and that their views on the character are therefore biased by their love of Neal, rather than seeing the “clear” differences.
I’m not saying only Nealfire Fans saw them as one and the same, but there were those fans who even loved Neal, but probably saw him different from Bae, which is quite understandable as they are two different people at their point in life. Just as Cowardly Rumple and Dark One Rumple are different Rumples at different point in there lives. And the Mills Women also fall into that category….Same person but different point in their lives.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
I’m not saying only Nealfire Fans saw them as one and the same
no dear, not you. It was said above.
Unless you’re a hardcore Nealfire fan who really studies the character and has a lot of headcanons for that gap in his backstory, a lot of viewers saw Neal and Bae as if they were two separate characters.
This is an incredibly broad, all encompassing statement to make.
You don’t have to really study a character and have giant metas to get that Neal and Bae are the same person. If people don’t get it, that’s fine. But to imply that the only way to get it is through careful study and headcanon is a bit much.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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