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Again, I feel a lot of it comes down to the transition between character’s lifespan. A big thing for me is that Neal comes across as too modern compared to his kid self. You can come up with your headcanons to explain this, and I’ve heard several, but to a casual fan it’s still jarring. If we never actually SEE the transition ourselves, that’s not going to change.
YES. I never really did buy Neal and Bae as the same person, and I can’t put my finger on exactly why that is–maybe the actors just don’t look alike to me? But I definitely agree with the whole too-modern thing. I just can’t reconcile the two as being the same person. I think it might’ve gone a long way if they’d cast young versions of Nealfire and Emma for the Tallahassee flashback. I just couldn’t buy those two in their 30s as 17 and however old Nealfire was supposed to be then. And it would’ve been really cool to see stuff like young Bae first arriving in present-day America.
And I’m just going to say I agree with everyone else about the whole August-Neal conversation and why it wouldn’t have worked to have Neal just explain the situation to her and taken her to Storybrooke himself. And no, I don’t think he ever looked for her although I do think he thought about her often.
And, let’s see…I don’t think anyone really owes anyone else unconditional love. There will always be some things that are unforgivable to some people, but it clearly went a long way to know the lengths to which Rumple went to get him back and that he regretted letting him go literally the second after he’d done it. Although it does occur to me now that I would think his father having murdered his mother would be a tough thing to forgive as well, but maybe it helps that he probably hardly remembered her…?
Honestly, I can’t really come up with a clear purpose for his death either…my guess is that it had more to do with mundane things like contracts, budgets, or limited screen time (or maybe just MRJ wanting to move on?) than with storytelling. Pure speculation on my part of course, but yeah I see no obvious reason why he had to die. Maybe to give Rumple reason to have to kill Zelena so as to set up another obstacle for Rumbelle and cause her time-travel portal to open up or something, but I think those things could’ve easily been accomplished other ways.
[adrotate group="5"]I’m not saying only Nealfire Fans saw them as one and the same
no dear, not you. It was said above.
Oh, okay then! Carry on! 🙂"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Maybe to give Rumple reason to have to kill Zelena so as to set up another obstacle for Rumbelle and cause her time-travel portal to open up or something, but I think those things could’ve easily been accomplished other ways
Indeed. I think Rump would have killed her anyway. Or perhaps trapped her in Pandora’s box. I dont think Neals death was used just for to get them to axe Zelena
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICI am one of those fans that MP is referring to. I felt a disconnect between young Bae and Neal. It was too big a leap for me to make. A big part of it was that Neal did not feel like he came from EF at all. There was nothing about him that said fairytale to me. It’s not just that he was too modern, but his vibe was too real world gritty and took me out of the moment. August was modern to, but there was enough of an aura of mystery around him that he could fit into the EF world.
I don’t know if I wrote this here or on another board, but I would have loved Neal to be part of the anti-magic organization (not a sham Pan organization but a true anti magic org). He along with Tamara and Greg should have been true believers believing that magic was corrupting influence. Bae said as much with Wendy. He and Tamara should have been sent to StoryBrooke to take out the magical beings. Neal could have been conflicted after learning that Emma was magical. This would set up drama and tension with multiple characters. I would have loved to see Rumple struggle with Neal becoming an anti-magic fanatic but willing to sacrifice his life. I don’t see Emma and Neal coming together because his abandonment was too great a blow to the trust necessary for any relationship to really blossom. I think Neal could have stayed as his own interesting character and not been a part of romantic triangle.
In terms of questions:
1) Did Neal have other options? I think so. He could have turned himself in, instead of Emma. Thus separating them. He could have left her a note telling her he had to leave because some old associates were after him, so that Emma wouldn’t have been so betrayed by his abandoning her. Personally, if I were him, I would have stayed and told August that I would be at Emma’s side helping handle whatever was to come.
2) Did Neal try to find Emma? I think it is pretty clear he didn’t. He even hooked up with Tamara after the curse broke. Neal told Emma that he needed Tamara. I don’t see Neal being that into Emma until Tamara shot him. Before that, he seemed he had moved on.
3) Hell yes! Neal was right to ask Rumple to give up magic. Rumple misused magic. It corrupted him and hurt so many people.
4) People forgive and sometimes it more about them than the offending party. If a person wants to forgive someone for the wrongs against or unconditionally love that person, I am fine with that SO LONG as they don’t expect their love to excuse everything the offending party has done. By that I mean, Neal can forgive Rumple for what Rumple did to him and can chose to love Rumple despite all of Rumple’s misdeeds, but he cannot excuse Rumple for what he did to others. Rumple needs to be accountable to his victims.
5) Fatal flaw. Not his fault, but his flaw was his parents — both of them, especially Rumple. On a more instrinsic level, I think after learning both parents abandoned him, I think Bae (later Neal) was no longer able to really make good judgments on people. Hook did and would fight for him, but Neal couldn’t believe the truth in Hook’s words, just like he couldn’t believe Rumple in Neverland. His ability to trust and to discern had been too damaged. We see it again with Emma (leaving her when she was the only person who never left him), trusting Tamara and Pinocchio. I think this led him to act rashly in the end because he was afraid of losing out because of his past laspes of judgment so he doubled down.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
Maybe to give Rumple reason to have to kill Zelena so as to set up another obstacle for Rumbelle and cause her time-travel portal to open up or something, but I think those things could’ve easily been accomplished other ways
Indeed. I think Rump would have killed her anyway. Or perhaps trapped her in Pandora’s box. I dont think Neals death was used just for to get them to axe Zelena
That’s very possible. But it also shows that they’re just running out of ideas if they honestly think that Rumple being the villain–again–makes sense after 311.
A big part of it was that Neal did not feel like he came from EF at all. There was nothing about him that said fairytale to me.
But that’s kinda the point. He’s trying to hide who he is out of fear. Being abandoned by his papa, taken in the night by a shadow, 200+ years on Peter Pan’s fun house of horrors island…and if people can’t see it, that’s fine, what I’m arguing against is the that it’s only possible to see Neal and Bae as the same if you do some indepth character and are a die hard Nealfan.
1) Did Neal have other options? I think so. He could have turned himself in, instead of Emma. Thus separating them. He could have left her a note telling her he had to leave because some old associates were after him, so that Emma wouldn’t have been so betrayed by his abandoning her. Personally, if I were him, I would have stayed and told August that I would be at Emma’s side helping handle whatever was to come.
The problem with those options is that they don’t create the kind of walls Emma has. And she had to have them in order for Henry to have the effect he has. A and E told MRJ the same thing when he objected to Neal leaving Emma.
And again, I have to ask, had he stayed: what’s the story? Everything from S1 is so wrapped up in opinions about Neal and whatnot, but like I said a page or two back, how do you get Emma saving Henry through TLK and breaking the curse…how do you get any of S1 without “Tallahassee”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@RumpleGirl I agree Neal was trying his hardest not be BAE, the abandon boy who lost hope in a cave in Neverland. So yes he was trying to shed his Fairytale Identity. I think another aspect of Neal was to accept the Baelfire half of himself.
I did not ever had a trouble connected Neal to Bae to Bae to Neal. I felt Neal was just a jaded adult grown up version of Bae. I expected Bae to be angry and jaded person. I think we had more time with him in the Enchanted Forest he would begin to connected to the past.
The thing is Neal had to leave Emma because the writers wanted him to, we see other options, even MRJ tried to see other options, but writers were determine this was the other way. But they never answered why. What where those bad things.
Neal could have went to Jail instead of Emma. But then what would Emma do, probably try to break him out and get arrested trying to help him escape.
It seems that the whole writing set up from A&e perspective was Rumple lose his son, set ups curse to find son, uses Regina to set up the curse,Emma destine to break curse to that Rumple is using to find his son. By fate Neal and Emma meet in the world. Fall in love. Fate intercepted, Neal left Emma, Emma heart is broken and in jail think Neal set her up so he can have run off with the money. She gives birth to a son, give him for adoption because she never got the money or the guardian Angel from August to keep her son. Regina adopts Henry, raises him who figures out from the book that Mary Margret gave him about the curse which leads him to finding his mother who breaks the curse and finds Rumple’s son who happens to be the father of the child who was used to bring Emma to SB. So if you wanted a season 1 you had to have Neal leave Emma and Emma put up Henry for adoption.
I think you can have the same complexities and angst if season 1 if both thought they were innocent and both thought the other set them up. That way both Neal and Emma would have similar hardships in pain of feeling lost and betrayed.
I don’t like or agree with the jail option, stupid option. I think Neal intentions were pure he really wanted her to find a family and break that curse that his father was set. I believe Neal loved Emma and Henry and his father and the Darlings. I don’t think he did it because he was afraid of his father , breaking the curse brought his father to him. But whole ordeal back that character of Nealfire in a corner. Which pretty much made Nealfire the fall guy for life problems for everyone, and I just didn’t think that was fair to Bae. Because it just seem like Baelfire was just set up to be screwed over in life, without a twinkle of happiness here and there before being ripped away from it.
I was never against the idea of Bae being Henry’s father because it would be a sweet connect between the three families. However seeing what we got out of this, I rather them not made Neal’s Henry’s father because this character just got shafted and screwed over in the end. Neal as the foster brother of Emma could have work. He could helped her after prison regain her life back and teach her about being bails-person.
I think its clear the writers had one idea and but didn’t have the skills bring it to fruition and things, idea, storylines, characters, and actors got scrapped.
I ABSOLUTELY have no problem with MRJ being Neal at all. So they could have left him as Neal and still had the same angst with his father as Neal and still wanted to be uncle to Henry and I would have been happy in the end that Bae got happiness. But there was reason they didn’t make Bae Emma’s foster brother….
sidenote: GOAT also really just screw things over for this character because they scrapped in a rush for Neverland arch and pretended that these characters didn’t exist after they were killed.
I do wonder what this show would be like without the rights of any parts of Peter Pan???
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
do wonder what this show would be like without the rights of any parts of Peter Pan???
Neal probably just would have become the wizard of oz like so many people thought xD
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICWR you are one of the people here that I really really REALLY missed.
*buys WR a scooter AND a guitar and lollipops and hugs*
Well, moving on then with our Neal discussion.
A lot of our characters move back and forth through villain–antihero–hero. For example: Rumple vacillates a lot from villain to antihero; Snow tries very hard to stay in hero territory but often finds herself in antihero land, becoming more gray.
Looking at Nealfire’s life and arc as a whole, where did he ultimately end up? And what sort of transitions did you see him going through?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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