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Well, moving on then with our Neal discussion.
A lot of our characters move back and forth through villain–antihero–hero. For example: Rumple vacillates a lot from villain to antihero; Snow tries very hard to stay in hero territory but often finds herself in antihero land, becoming more gray.
Looking at Nealfire’s life and arc as a whole, where did he ultimately end up? And what sort of transitions did you see him going through?
Ultimately Neal was a hero. He was never ever a villain, but was an example of a good guy simply making a few wrong choices that cost him dearly in the end. Not looking for Emma after the postcard, getting together with Tamara, and trying to resurrect his father without caring about the cost. Unlike Rumple or Regina, Neal never killed anybody, nor committed villainous acts to intentionally hurt others. Yes he was a thief, but he did so out of survival much like Aladdin or Robin Hood. However, he still wanted to save his father, still gave himself up to Pan’s shadow to protect the Darlings, still played a part in getting Emma “home”, still got the message and potion to Hook, and still sacrificed his life. Despite the fact that trying to resurrect Rumple was the biggest mistake he ever made in his life, he did so because he wanted to be with his family so badly. He didn’t want Henry to be without his father like he experienced himself.
[adrotate group="5"]In the end…Neal died a hero. 🙂
A BOSS to the very end!
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Yes, Neal is a hero…but I think that’s one of the points in OUAT. All of our main characters have both hero and villain within them. (Main characters, not villain of the arc) That’s not to diminish what Neal did; if it weren’t for him…deabsorbing…from Rumple to get the note to Hook, the events that needed to happen to get us where we are could not have occurred. Of course, had he not acted rashly, and opened the vault, he wouldn’t have aided the WW in her own plans.
We’ve seen over and over again, it’s all about perspective. People get passionate about their favorites, and it can get to the point of blinding them against the negative qualities of that character (believe me, I include myself in the argument, if we get to Hook I am one of the biggest supporters on the forum). But when we try to take a step back, and reanalyze, it becomes easier to see that no one is perfect and each of them have the ability to be the hero AND be the villain. Even Neal.
Oh, A&E another fascinating and “bold” storyline you could have explored – Neal the hero vs villain… so Neal dabbled in the dark magic…what would’ve happened if he hadn’t gotten all glued to Daddy and then sacrificed himself??? Would someone who was so averse to magic, especially dark magic, for so long be tempted to continue using it if his plan had been a complete success? What would he think about Emma’s magic – and potentially Henry’s (seriously that kid’s got to have a little raw power in him)? He ran from the EF and his childhood for so long, and obviously he couldn’t outrun it completely because as soon as he met Emma he was immersed again – what does that do to him? A much better story than the ridiculous road they took. Must we do all the work for you??
@Jenna_B ah yes the ying and yang, the two wolves, light and dark, it exist in all of us.
Neal I think was mostly good, he was a hero, although he to had his faults, and was far from perfect. But he was not particular cruel human being, he did not set out to hurt people even thought he hurt people and felt guilt for the hurt he cause or the wrong he did. Nor was he on some mighty quest for vengeance. In the end Nealfire just wanted things he wanted as chil, a simple life, a simple dream, to love, be love, have a family, and place to call home. Sighs now I’ve made my self sad again. 🙁
"I will be kind but I will speak my mind."
Alright, another question (and seriously, if people have others, feel free to ask. I’m not an evil dictator who is control of aLL THE THINGS)
Do you think the lack of Neal’s presence in S4 will affect the show–either storyline wise or character wise? OR is this going to be like Graham–sad and shocking when it happened, but ultimately the characters will fail to mention of invoke his name/memory again?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think Neal will be remembered and brought up – he and Graham are vastly different characters. Graham’s purpose, essentially, was to show some of Regina’s backstory and be the first character we see start to break through the confines of the curse. Neal, however, had connections to many characters in the show, primarily Emma and Henry, two of the core characters. While yes, it was sad Graham died, he didn’t have the connections that Neal has, so it’s easier to ‘forget’ that character.
Alright, another question (and seriously, if people have others, feel free to ask. I’m not an evil dictator who is control of aLL THE THINGS) Do you think the lack of Neal’s presence in S4 will affect the show–either storyline wise or character wise? OR is this going to be like Graham–sad and shocking when it happened, but ultimately the characters will fail to mention of invoke his name/memory again?
*gets out of her enchanted world to the jungle* I said this several times on the enchanted world that, Neal/Bae wont be remenbered, he was mourned on the end of S2 for like 10 minutes( i count all the scenes in S2 finale and s3A, until he appears), but then several other things happened, while on S3 was pretty much 1 minute and lets bury him and move on, not even some words, like in some other funerals we saw, not even important people on his funeral, some random strangers that didnt even knew him, Henry regain his memories and was like a stranger died, not his father, just a rose, not any emotions, he showed more emotion when he was giving a speech to regina on 320, none of them will remenber him again with the feeling of missing him, Rumple used his name for revenge, he cameback and not even his son grave he went to see. Next season there will be all this drama with Elsa, he will not be mentioned, Rumple and belle will deal with their problem, and bet she will soon be pregnant so Neal/bae will be forgotten by some drama related to a new baby, Henry will not say anything about his father again bc of Elsa drama and the possible Regina/Emma love/war dramas, and also lets not forget that Neal was just a beloved Son, not father, friend or anything else. So if Rumple and Henry, the only blood connections to Neal/Bae wont remenber him, why all the other persons should?They dont have reasons too. This goes in the line of what Adam and Eddie said, Neal will live on the hearts( rumple S3) and flashbacks( 319 and 322), they didnt mentioned memories. In this line of thought i make one question, will he see Neal/Bae again? No, Dylan is getting to old to appear as young Bae( although he has more chances of appearing in some random Rumple memory), and MRJ no way he will be back for flashbacks ( no more connections to show). Also, Who is Neal again? oh yeah, he is the baby boy, son of Snow White and Prince Charming, brother of the savior and uncle of the truest believer, about this also dont forget what the writers said, that the baby can be call Neal on our world but if they go back to EF , he can be called Baelfire, yeah, is totally not to make GA forget that Bae/Neal ever existed before the baby.* Leaves the jungle, bc is to scary and goes back to the enchanted world*
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
Alright, another question (and seriously, if people have others, feel free to ask. I’m not an evil dictator who is control of aLL THE THINGS) Do you think the lack of Neal’s presence in S4 will affect the show–either storyline wise or character wise? OR is this going to be like Graham–sad and shocking when it happened, but ultimately the characters will fail to mention of invoke his name/memory again?
Last week, I spoke to someone who works on the set. Can’t state who it was or his/her’s position. I was told that they would be dwelling on the repercussions of Neal’s death and how this affects Rumple and that more will be explained. Not sure that I can trust this information and even if it is correct, I also know that K&H told NF fans to have hope for the finale in regards to how crushed we were re: Neal’s death. Well, we all know how that turned out as K&H seem to have little understanding of what hope meant for NF fans.
Let’s hope that our voices have been heard, in regards to how important we feel NF’s character was to the storyline, and they do make an effort to go more into detail in S4 and address our concerns.
I was a HUGE Baelfire fan and thought his storyline was an important one. My hope had always been that we’d explore more of his journeys, over the past few centuries. As an adult Neal, I also thought there was room for so much development. He could have turned out to be any other FT character based on travels throughout many other realms. K&H believe that NF was just an avenue to explore in terms of what motivated one of the main protagonists of the show, Rumple. His death is meant to show how it further affects Rumple and his actions, ongoing into S4. I understand this, as much as it disappoints me, as fans saw Baelfire as much more than just a vehicle for Rumple.
Bae/Neal was a good hearted man who sacrificed his happiness with the Darlings to save their family. He sacrificed his happiness with Emma, to save Storybrooke. He sacrificed being with his son, to save Emma from going through the portal. He sacrificed his life to save Storybrooke once again, against Zelena, (weak writing there). Yes, he had his flaws but on the whole, he was a good man with a loving heart.
As Jenna-b posted, I would have loved to see him dabble in magic – good magic. A bold move would have been to see his F/T character as Merlin. Merlin regressed in age. We could have shown a story arc of an adult Neal, before he met Emma, meeting up with Arthur and being entrapped with Nimue. A love story line between Neal/Merlin and Nimue (also known as Lady of the Lake) would have been refreshing. The best happy ending would have been finally regressing to a teenage Baelfire and Rumple finally being able to enjoy his time with his son. Nimue (who could be both good and bad) could have been the Dark Fairy who created the first Dark One, and Neal’s demise did not need to be death, but rather being held by her (as was Merlin) for opening the Dark One’s Vault. A little twist on the actual story where she held Merlin when Arthur needed him most during his trying times with Lancelot, Guinevere & the final war. Not saying that this is the best storyline (lots of loopholes but loopholes can be plugged up), just suggesting that there was more than enough room to show a better storyline for this character.
PS pls excuse the spelling, etc. still half asleep and my morning cuppa isn’t opening my eyes yet. 🙂
Keeper of Pandora's Box & The Yellow Brick Road.
I was told that they would be dwelling on the repercussions of Neal’s death and how this affects Rumple and that more will be explained. Not sure that I can trust this information and even if it is correct, I also know that K&H told NF fans to have hope for the finale in regards to how crushed we were re: Neal’s death. Well, we all know how that turned out as K&H seem to have little understanding of what hope meant for NF fans.
As much as I want to believe….
Rumple not dwelling wouldn’t make sense, so that’s not surprising. But as far as the rest of the characters, I just don’t have enough faith that anyone will remember that Neal’s dead.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Season 4 is going to be interesting for Rumple because he no longer has Finding/Reuniting with Bae as his goal anymore.
I’d like to see Henry act out over Neal’s death and Emma and Hook’s new relationship.
Snowing probably won’t be affected because Neal wasn’t in their important social circle.
Unless MRJ does agree to come back to do guest spots, I doubt Emma will be dwelling on Neal’s death.
Rumple and Henry would be the two whose Neal’s death will have the most affect on.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
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