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But….my question is…what do you think Neal’s role would have been in S4 had he lived?
Mediator between Regina and Emma
Helpmate to Belle trying to keep Rumple on the path to redemption
And a wonderful, loving, kind, father.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Helpmate to Belle trying to keep Rumple on the path to redemption
And probably the Best Man at the wedding :'(
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICNeal would definitely have been the best man at the RumBelle wedding.
I think Henry would’ve turned to Neal when the fighting between Emma and Regina got too much for him. It’ll be interesting to see who Henry does turn to now since Snowing are going to be too wrapped up in the new baby, and Emma and Regina are going to be fighting. There’s always Hook but I’d like to think Henry would turn to Rumple since Rumple is now the closest link Henry has left to Neal and we’ve hardly gotten any Rumple/Henry scenes since Manhattan.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThere’s always Hook but I’d like to think Henry would turn to Rumple since Rumple is now the closest link Henry has left to Neal and we’ve hardly gotten any Rumple/Henry scenes since Manhattan.
I won’t lie. If the writers have Henry turn to Hook, I am going to be VERY upset. I don’t mind Henry and Hook bonding more, but Rumple is his grandfather and they BOTH lost Neal.
Helpmate to Belle trying to keep Rumple on the path to redemption
And probably the Best Man at the wedding :’(
I have too many feelings about this to properly respond.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Coming a little late to the party, but please bear with me if picking up a few things from earlier before getting to the newer questions raised.
Some might not like my views, but as I see it Bae/ Neal was a supporting character, supporting the story arc of primarily Rumple and then in the appearance as Neal as well of Emma. Having a contract as regular doesn’t exclude being “just” a supporting character. Don’t get me wrong, not saying he was unimportant, but Bae’s/Neal’s story was not important in itself on the show, as much as his own story and character might be interesting, it was important in connection with the main characters. Bae was the motivator for Rumple’s actions, a key to understand Rumple’s emotional world and mind. As well he became a key to understand a part of Emma’s emotional world. He was fleshed out as character as much as it was needed for Rumple’s and Emma’s story arc, well, mainly for Rumple’s, think the writers failed a bit making his part in Emma’s story arc as plausible.
I think they did a fairly decent job with Bae’s/Neal’s role in Rumple’s story arc be it back in the fairy backs or in present time. Different from many I don’t think that Neal acted OOC when he went to retrieve the Dark One, and eventually by it as well his father, to get a chance to get back to his son Henry, quite the opposite. There was finally something of the Bae as we’ve met him in the fairy backs, when he called for the Blue Fairy for help and took the bean to change things for him and his father, when in London he jumped and let the shadow take him instead of Michael (was it Michael?), even when he used Roland to catch a ride with the shadow again to reunite with his son and family. Bae had a certain confidence, he was not a guy to sit around and wait for destiny to happen but someone taking matters, fate in his own hands. He was not seeing magic as something someone should ever use on a daily basis or ever trust much, he saw the temptations of its powers first hand in his father, and was hating magic for that, but he wasn’t shy to use magic as a more or less last resort.
Using magic as last resort was his tragic flaw. While in a way opposed to magic and trying to stay away from it because it had estranged his father, Bae/Neal used magic as well – and it mostly ended not good for him and others, causing more trouble. If he hadn’t used the bean, although quite sure Bae is not to blame for his father’s failure to let go, Bae’s intention were good, even smart, but tragically it turned into something he certainly didn’t want to happen: Instead of getting his father back he fully lost him for a long time. Worse, Rumple turned worlds up side down in the attempt to reunite with Bae, did probably more bad and evil stuff than he would have just to protect Neal, many people suffered for creating the conditions for the Dark Curse to be cast and casting it. If Neal hadn’t gone so recklessly to retrieve the Dark One, becoming easy prey for Zelena’s trap, nothing that followed might have had happened the way it did, they maybe would have find a way to stop Zelena in the EF, and then looked for a way to reconnect with Emma against all odds, but could have been some less suffering and at least one death less.
Could have seen Neal going more and more to the dark side trying to bridge the worlds as his father did before trying to reunite with him, without bringing Rumple back, maybe Neal finding a way to take the powers of the Dark One even, taking over his place. But, no matter if I like it or not (I don’t, but more because I want more women centric story and could go very well in one show without much of a male main character for a change) Rumple is a main character and Neal was only supporting his story.
Having Neal though around, more or less happy fathering his own child while sorting the books in the library with Belle or whatever wouldn’t have offered much of a drive for Rumple’s character. To have something to drive Rumple in the upcoming season(s) it was either Belle or Neal IMO, they had to do something to keep Rumple on the edge, something to keep him struggling with destiny and the means dark magic powers offer him. They could have dragged things longer maybe, going more the conflict between father and son road, for another season maybe, Neal not trusting Rumple to not abuse magic and even hurting his family, Rumple insisting he wants to only protect him and everyone, but Rumple is a tragic character (no, I don’t see him having a happy ending). Usually one has to up the odds a bit with every new level of the story, otherwise you end up with something as mediocre as the Zelena story arc, separating Neal and Rumple by putting them in different places was worn out. Another tragic loss was for me on the walls at the beginning of season 3. But YMMV.
I have no problem with that they made Neal an important person in Emma’s life as well, as a true love and the father of her son. But as many I have a problem with the situation in Phoenix (episode Tallahassee), how Neal’s betrayal of Emma was executed, it’s plausibility was hard to follow, and Neal’s first reactions in New York and the whole thing with Tamara. In these story parts Neal was mostly out of character in my view, or it was demanding a lot more to make it plausible than they ever delivered on screen.
Destiny? Oh please. Bae didn’t seem to be anyone bowing much to whatever destiny was saying, he took matters in his hands. Right, Neal blabbers something about destiny later in the pub in New York talking to Emma, but he sounded like a broken man to me at this point, like someone who had given up. Learning he had a son, then even more so meeting him in a person was though a game changer for this broken man, rekindling something in him.
I find it interesting, how some struggle to call it a betrayal what happened in Phoenix, from Emma’s point of view in that moment and years later it certainly was. And from how Neal reacted on screen don’t think that even Neal saw it differently, he betrayed her, left her alone without any word, explanation, for whatever his reasons were at the time, it still was a betrayal, he messed up, he hurt Emma, and was sorry about it later. He wasn’t there as they had agreed on. He might not have called police on her himself, what leaves August as the one who did it, but he left Emma, without any explanation and all of a sudden. Maybe Neal’s betrayal can be justified, as that it was necessary to give Emma a chance to reunite with her parents, find her family and home, probably what August used as argument, but it still is a betrayal. And that is absolutely regardless of Emma being pregnant, that doesn’t matter, Neal didn’t know that, and it’s rather moot to speculate if he would have left even then.
I honestly don’t get, why it seems to be so important to many that what Neal did to Emma was for her sake or an act even of loving her. No, I do get it, it’s about integrity, of being the good guy, but I have a different view on integrity, on what makes people good guys. I have a lot more respect for people making mistakes when they own them, not trying to make it ever look good but accept it was messed up, and showing they learned something from it. I find the always reasonable acting, always doing the right things people mostly annoying or at best only boring, besides they only exist in fiction or in their own minds. We make mistakes, that is human, we mess things up, we hurt people, the question is to me, if someone can accept they do or did it and as such. Good guys are IMO not the good guys when they always do good, no one can, but because they take responsibility no matter what, they don’t even try to blame someone else, destiny, circumstances, bad luck, whatever, they own their actions, bad as much their good deeds, and even take responsibility if they’re not solely responsible. Something went wrong, they had a hand in it, they accept that, and then regardless what it might cost themselves try to do their best to do as much as they can to change what follows to something better for as many involved as any possible.
Betrayal is sure something hard to overcome in matters of a romance or friendship, but it’s not impossible to build new trust. Overcoming betrayal is more of an epic story than blind love.
I am well aware that I have quite a minority view on this forum. Wouldn’t go so far to say, Neal’s death was necessary for the story, nothing is necessary for any story, but it makes things interesting with Rumple. It’s not some foe from the outside teasing him, it’s his own personality and inner struggles being pushed again by this tragic lost. He has dark powers, and though he might cite again and again the price thing, belief in destiny, while fighting it all the time, will he truly be able to let go and accept Neal’s sacrifice for his family? I am not so sure about that. Yes, magic has rules, but that doesn’t mean one can’t try to break them, it was shown with Zelena and with Jafar on Wonderland.
So, no, I don’t bother to even picture Neal in season 4. I found the Zelena set up not well executed, found it unnecessary and even taking something away from Neal as a character to make it more or less a trap of Zelena Neal walked into, but I am okay with his death. I am not rejoicing but neither do I mourn him, because I can see merits for the drama of Rumple in it, and yes, I care more about a good drama than a happy ending, for any character.
Not sure what the showrunners will make of it. They mostly go into the right direction, but then turn a firework more into a flower shower or take the express lift up instead of the slower lift stopping every floor, making it possible to explore a building more in detail. They have a bad habit of rushing through emotional things for the sake of the big bad of the season adventure plot or the newest action figure toy character. Might happen as well to the repercussions of Neal’s death, it might not last long, or they rush through it, too fast for many to follow. Will see.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Some might not like my views, but as I see it Bae/ Neal was a supporting character, supporting the story arc of primarily Rumple and then in the appearance as Neal as well of Emma
I think you’d be hard pressed to find even the most ardent Nealfire fan who thought he was the main character. My love of him does not blind me to what I know to be true: the main characters on this show are (and always been) Snow, Emma, Regina and Rumple. And each of them have a little supporting crew that revolves around them–Charming, Henry,Hook, Belle, and Neal.
There was finally something of the Bae as we’ve met him in the fairy backs, when he called for the Blue Fairy for help and took the bean to change things for him and his father, when in London he jumped and let the shadow take him instead of Michael (was it Michael?), even when he used Roland to catch a ride with the shadow again to reunite with his son and family.
Yes, but most of those instances are not DARK magic. For Bae to willy nilly turn to Dark Magic was what people would call OOC, those who believe it is, at any rate.
If Neal hadn’t gone so recklessly to retrieve the Dark One, becoming easy prey for Zelena’s trap, nothing that followed might have had happened the way it did, they maybe would have find a way to stop Zelena in the EF, and then looked for a way to reconnect with Emma against all odds, but could have been some less suffering and at least one death less.
Your key words there are MIGHT and MAYBE. If Zelena needed to be defeated by Regina with light magic, that only happens if Regina is reunited with Henry. Without Henry, Regina’s light magic is either non-existent or far less potent, something Regina acknowledges in 319.
Having Neal though around, more or less happy fathering his own child while sorting the books in the library with Belle or whatever wouldn’t have offered much of a drive for Rumple’s character. To have something to drive Rumple in the upcoming season(s) it was either Belle or Neal IMO, they had to do something to keep Rumple on the edge, something to keep him struggling with destiny and the means dark magic powers offer him.
If the only way to make a main character interesting is to kill a minor one, then there is something wrong with your story. Rumple coming back from death, being locked up, trying to be human, being married, being a father, being a grandfather, trying to suppress the darkness…that’s plenty interesting without needing to kill his son. And since Elsa is obviously connected to Rumple somehow, then he’s already going to be “on edge” without having to loose his son.
I find it interesting, how some struggle to call it a betrayal what happened in Phoenix, from Emma’s point of view in that moment and years later it certainly was. And from how Neal reacted on screen don’t think that even Neal saw it differently, he betrayed her, left her alone without any word, explanation, for whatever his reasons were at the time, it still was a betrayal, he messed up, he hurt Emma, and was sorry about it later. He wasn’t there as they had agreed on.
Of course it was a betrayal, and both parties know it–as do the fans. Just because, for example, I am an ardent supporter of Nealfire doesn’t mean I don’t recognize that he really hurt Emma. The story is about coming back from that. But there is BETRAYAL and then there is betrayal. What Neal did was, ultimately, for the greater good. And it hurt Emma and it hurt Neal and it hurt Henry and it sucks. But he owned up to it, and she forgave him. He can justify it, but he doesn’t excuse the hurt he caused. He gave an actual apology. Snow and Charming don’t even apologize to Emma for sending her through the wardrobe, even though it was for the greater good.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Oh, Myril, I love your perspectives 🙂
find it interesting, how some struggle to call it a betrayal what happened in Phoenix, from Emma’s point of view in that moment and years later it certainly was.
Thatd the keyword. From EMMA’S point of view. She doesn’t know who she is, why he left, or whhat she is destined to do. From her mind, she thinks she gave her heart to someone, he got her pregnant, then he left her to rot in jail as he got away. We as an audience knows that is not true. What Bae did was something called being Selfless. He loved Emma and wanted to stay with her but knew she had something GREATER to do, to save countless people trapped in the curse. Staying with her would have put her offcourse and those people would be doomed for all of eternity and you know who would be to blame for that? Beal. Because staying with Emma would have been a un-heroic and selfish thing to do. What he did was make a choice for the side of goodness and it was a brave choice that would hurt the both of them, yes, but NEEDED to be done. He acted opposite what his father would have done. Because old Rumpel would have said “screw everybody. I want my own happiness” and stayed and that is villainous in my opinion.
find the always reasonable acting, always doing the right things people mostly annoying or at best only boring, besides they only exist in fiction or in their own minds
That is your opinion. True no one is entirely good or evil, but in real life plenty of people are like this. I know two people who it seems fell off the delivery truck from sunshine and rainbow valley, who wouldn’t even J-walk across the street because their parents told them not to (seriously, this actually happened) and they are always nice, smiling, and always helpful to everyone and while they are boring as a sack of leaves, they exist. And plenty people like them too.
Betrayal is sure something hard to overcome in matters of a romance or friendship, but it’s not impossible to build new trust. Overcoming betrayal is more of an epic story than blind love.
Exactly. Which is why I don’t get why a lot of people cite that Emma wouldn’t ever chose Neal because of his “betrayal”. I would have been interesting to have gone this route but we all know what happened.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICWhat Neal did was, ultimately, for the greater good. And it hurt Emma and it hurt Neal and it hurt Henry and it sucks. But he owned up to it, and she forgave him. He can justify it, but he doesn’t excuse the hurt he caused. He gave an actual apology. Snow and Charming don’t even apologize to Emma for sending her through the wardrobe, even though it was for the greater good.
This. Every drop of this.
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICWhy didn’t they de-age Neal back to Bae? That way the CSF triangle would’ve been resolved without the need for Neal’s death. Henry could’ve still had his father around and Rumple would have his son, however Bae wouldn’t have his memories of Neal so that would be an issue that could’ve been overcome in season 4.
What would’ve been interesting with Neal is if Tamara had been the real deal. I’ve seen complaints that Neal didn’t believe Emma about Tamara but I bet if Tamara had been genuine, Neal would’ve got complaints if he’d just dropped her because Emma had come back into his life.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWhat Neal did was, ultimately, for the greater good. And it hurt Emma and it hurt Neal and it hurt Henry and it sucks. But he owned up to it, and she forgave him. He can justify it, but he doesn’t excuse the hurt he caused. He gave an actual apology. Snow and Charming don’t even apologize to Emma for sending her through the wardrobe, even though it was for the greater good.
This. Every drop of this.
(Applauds like a mad woman, for there is nothing else that I can add! Perfect!)
And to be completely honest about the Tamara situation…I think EVERY Oncer hated her….the one person we could all unite against! The moment we saw her crossing SwanFire, it was war…..
EVERY Oncers Reaction:
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
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