Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread

[betsypaige24]

While I have a wee bit more optimism than Besty (though I am a little nervous) you do bring up a point that I think could be used to discuss ONCE as a whole: external vs internal conflict. All the possible plot bunnies you’re suggesting as internal conflicts vs say an external big bad. They keep throwing external roadblocks at us (fans, not just Rumbelle) instead of letting the stuff that is internal play out and develop. While I think they should always build on their mythology of the ONCEiverse, I would like to see more internal matters being settled. You’ve given me something to chew on Besty!

Thanks!

That’s just a problem with the show in general, though, not just Rumbelle. They’re NOT giving anything  time to breathe. Geez, they just got back from NL – now right on top of that, it’s OZ? I feel  in a way like they are trying to throw everything and anything to see what will stick……..

With Rumbelle, I think they faced their biggest internal roadblock in the Croc…..and though I feel Belle was really out of character for 95% of that episode, the library scene is iconic to me and that sort of began their new story.  Their bond is SO strong, their love and desire to be with each other so deep, that the question becomes : how do you create obstacles?   A few external obstacles would be ok IF there were a balance, but at this point Rumbelle is nothing but unremitting tragedy.  It’s honestly exhausting shipping them and, unfortunately, I think a lot of the joy has been taken out of loving them. It’s SO frustrating on Tumblr to express yourself and get shouted down  by fans who are  thrilled by the angst  because it shows that Adam and Eddy love them.   What these people don’t understand is that most of us are very well aware that tv dramas are about…….well, drama. We’re not asking for strings of episodes showing pure, blissful Rumbelle. What we’re asking for is balance.

We are not even through S3 and Rumbelle has been separated 5 times: S1 – abduction; S2: amnesia and curse; S3: NL/wherever Gold is .   Belle had barely been back in S2 finale when she and Gold were separated again (while I adored their shop reunion, to me there could have been more to it). Now they’re barely back in SB (again, scenes were cut from their reunion) before everything turns to hell (though  Gold’s sacrifice was glorious and beautiful; I love him now more than I ever did – which is nearly impossible – and I’m overwhelmingly proud of him). It’s one thing after another and I think they are going to lose fans if they keep this up. I think they already have.

As much as I adore Rumbelle, their relationship is depicted more as a series of dramatic events than as a relationship (see my “no domestic” moments ramble in my previous post).   If Rumbelle is reunited by the end of S3 (and it had BETTER be worth it, after all this), then as I said before, they HAVE to stop the separations. It becomes a matter of manipulating fans – which they’ve done, IMO, many times. Are we REALLY supposed to believe that these two would not have kissed prior to Gold going over the line in the Outsider?  That he wouldn’t have gone back over to the safe side of the line before kissing Belle? I mean, that is practically my favorite episode ever, very near to Skin Deep, but these are serious flaws (plus apparently they deleted a scene where Gold kisses Belle’s hand in the car).  At some point, you know what? Fans become apathetic and that’s a terrible thing because it means they don’t care. The only reason I have not quit the show (and I quit LOST because I was angry about how poorly Emilie was used -I adored her character Claire) is because I just can’t bring myself to abandon Rumbelle; that would make me very unhappy. However, I think there ARE people who will just give up because ONCE doesn’t give us any hope.  Yeah, we get small tidbits occasionally, but not nearly enough to keep people satisfied.

This might sound strange, but ONCE is treating their characters TOO much like fairy tale characters and not enough like real people.   By that, I mean that because they are FT characters, they are liable to meet all sorts of magical folks, creatures, etc… Well that’s dandy IF it’s interwoven with more character-based storylines. So, Gold dealing with the ramifications of his mortality? That’s dramatic, that’s real.  There are SO many ways to go with that…and goodness, it would give Bobby and Emilie amazing storylines. The thing that KILLS me about these separations is that their insanely rare chemistry is being wasted…..Most shows would do ANYTHING they could to take advantage of their ridiculous luck, but ONCE actually seems to reject it.  These two are brilliant together, a genuinely beautiful partnership; I  want to see more of them…TOGETHER, on screen, as Rumbelle, not as alternate versions of themseves.   It KILLS me that ONCE doesn’t seem to understand that this is a rare thing…and it won’t last forever.

 

THIS fact is what gives me some hope for a happy ending, because if they meant to create a character who is emotionally tortured throughout the show and just tell us a tragedy story it would make sense to have him die in the end, but since this is the middle, maybe the game changes now and he will stop being hurt all the time and start living a normal life with an actual chance at happiness.

Marty, I will say this……that while WE are devastated, lol, and so is Belle,  they gave him the most beautiful redemption story, a story that was realistically paced and incredibly beautiful. Belle’s presence changed things drastically……..and it all led up to his “death” which though I weep still, is absolutely magnificent. It’s because of his great love that he has for Belle and Bae, his great love overall (he truly IS full of love) that he was able to give himself up – and in so doing saved everyone, including himself. He could never actually truly be happy while being cursed; that was an enormous burden to him. I have to say that I really loved that they didn’t have TLK break the curse because it means a lot more, Gold having struggled mightily against it. He was breaking it just by his transformation; his love for Belle and hers for him was transforming him…and it led to that moment last week.

So, they are obviously planning on the show lasting however many more seasons and they’ve now broken Gold’s curse. That’s a good thing because I don’t think there was much more that could be done with it;  it SHOULD be something of a game changer. That is, they can spin off stories from this. I’m not saying get Rumbelle married now (though honestly getting them married before the end of the series would be far less cliched then waiting until the end), but yes – can we STOP with this man being fate’s pin cushion ? I do think that WILL stop because I think Gold took fate, twisted it into a little knot and crushed it like the man snail from S1, lol.  That moment when he planted his hand on Pan Daddy’s shoulder and growled that he wasn’t going to let him touch Belle OR Bae? That moment when he slammed that dagger into Pan Daddy’s back, fiercely proclaiming that in order for Pan to  die, they both have to……..and that he was READY finally?  That was Gold taking control of his own life……

[PriceofMagic]

I think the main problem with The Crocodile was there was no build up to Belle and Rumple falling out. The last time we saw RumBelle was in Broken where Belle came back after Rumple broke his promise, saying she’d stay with him, then all of a sudden in The Crocodile, she’s saying that she’s leaving him because he wasn’t being honest with her and letting her in emotionally.

Whilst I do agree that Belle did deserve Rumple to be honest with her and to let her in emotionally, I do think in 202 and 203, there should have been some sort of transition shown between RumBelle to show a reason why Belle seemed to go from “I’m staying with you because I love you” to “I’m leaving because you’re not being honest with me”.

I too would love to see episodes where RumBelle deal with problems TOGETHER. (Rumple coming back from whatever happened to him would be a great opportunity to show that especially if Rumple is suffering from some sort of PTSD). However, I think the reason why RumBelle is separated so much (It is frustrating and fanfiction shows that fans do want RumBelle just to be able to spend time together) is because the relationship they have is so passionate and so strong that petty squabbles wouldn’t add enough drama to the relationship. Belle and Rumple arguing over Rumple not putting the toilet seat down would be great for fans to see, however the casual audience may think it is just a waste of screentime. And with a limited running time, some things do get cut from an episode. Domestic RumBelle would be great to see, I’d love to see it, however if the writers don’t feel it fits the rest of an episode or if they want to keep a particular scene in compared to another, they will cut scenes that don’t affect the overall flow of the episode.

I also think that the reason RumBelle are constantly interrupted all of the time is because this is a family show, and their chemistry is so great that if they weren’t interrupted, there would be only one logical conclusion to there scenes together. There is a reason why there is a lot of RumBelle smut in fanfiction.

I also loved how it was implied in The New Neverland that RumBelle slept together just through a change of clothing and smirking whereas Snowing had to basically signpost what they were planning to do. RumBelle can afford to be subtle with the hints because it’s basically a foregone conclusion amongst fans that if RumBelle have any uninterrupted time together, they’re having sex.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

That’s just a problem with the show in general, though, not just Rumbelle. They’re NOT giving anything time to breathe. Geez, they just got back from NL – now right on top of that, it’s OZ? I feel in a way like they are trying to throw everything and anything to see what will stick……..

Like I said, it’s a problem of ONCE as a whole. External conflict after external conflict. Cora, PP, and now the wicked witch

I really think they need one “kitchen table” episode where everyone just sits around a kitchen table and talks. just hashes out everything. No magic fighting, no big bad, no curses…just raw character development.

A few external obstacles would be ok IF there were a balance, but at this point Rumbelle is nothing but unremitting tragedy. It’s honestly exhausting shipping them and, unfortunately, I think a lot of the joy has been taken out of loving them. It’s SO frustrating on Tumblr to express yourself and get shouted down by fans who are thrilled by the angst because it shows that Adam and Eddy love them. What these people don’t understand is that most of us are very well aware that tv dramas are about…….well, drama. We’re not asking for strings of episodes showing pure, blissful Rumbelle. What we’re asking for is balance.

I agree. I think the show as a whole needs more balance in terms of external and internal conflict and a chance to breathe. There is so much drama between the characters that we don’t need a big bad, not really. It’s like thinking that our characters and couples can only grow in the presence of some looming threat, but if you think about your favorite shippy moments (most likely) they aren’t in the presence of some mythic evil. It’s an internal thing. Rumple kissing Belle in the hospital thinking that he can bring her back, but knowing he can’t. The 204 library scene. 201 “that’s the reason I have to stay.”

(though Gold’s sacrifice was glorious and beautiful; I love him now more than I ever did – which is nearly impossible – and I’m overwhelmingly proud of him).

Ditto. Once I stopped weeping hysterically, I was just so proud of him.

I too would love to see episodes where RumBelle deal with problems TOGETHER. (Rumple coming back from whatever happened to him would be a great opportunity to show that especially if Rumple is suffering from some sort of PTSD).

Personal headcanon for S3.2 is that Belle goes to find Rumple in Hades (a gender swap take on Orpheus and Eurydice that…lol..succeeds). And they spend a good portion of the time together fighting their way back from that

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[angiebelle]

That’s been my wish for the whole series since last year…more slice of life and less putting the characters under the constant threat of danger.  They did do really well at getting those great character moments in Neverland though.  I’m not sure they will ever let the characters just live for a bit!  I’m very curious what happened during this time jump!  Has Belle been without Rumple this whole time?

I agree in that I prefer to see RumBelle together, and I understand about the separations being frustrating.  (Although I have to admit, I love seeing them fight for each other.) I really need the 2nd half of the series, and I hope Belle doesn’t have to go on too long believing Rumple is dead.  I would almost bet money that he is not.

[betsypaige24]

I think the main problem with The Crocodile was there was no build up to Belle and Rumple falling out. The last time we saw RumBelle was in Broken where Belle came back after Rumple broke his promise, saying she’d stay with him, then all of a sudden in The Crocodile, she’s saying that she’s leaving him because he wasn’t being honest with her and letting her in emotionally.

Whilst I do agree that Belle did deserve Rumple to be honest with her and to let her in emotionally, I do think in 202 and 203, there should have been some sort of transition shown between RumBelle to show a reason why Belle seemed to go from “I’m staying with you because I love you” to “I’m leaving because you’re not being honest with me”

All this PLUS, even so, Belle horribly overreacted to Gold’s being unable to be honest with her. She treated him the same way she treated her father, the man who literally had her snatched, thrown into a mine cart and pushed towards the town line so she’d lose her memories. That man is a real beast, and he did that simply because he’s a control freak who couldn’t let his daughter make up her own mind (he also tried to take credit for the deal sayin git was his deal. Um, NO, you moron; YOU said NO to Rumple, it was Belle who agreed).  I fully expected that we’d get a wonderful reunion, but instead, she pushes him away and says she NEVER wants to see him again? Really? Days later at the library, she’s still infuriated. I chalk that up to just poor writing because it doesn’t compute at all. I think Belle, the REAL Belle, would have understood that this is a man who lived alone basically for 300 years and has had real reason not to trust anyone.  When he couldn’t open up in the kitchen, he wasn’t trying to be closed off to her, he just wasn’t sure how – and being afraid doesn’t make one a coward. I never liked how Belle fed into his insecurities there.

However, I think the reason why RumBelle is separated so much (It is frustrating and fanfiction shows that fans do want RumBelle just to be able to spend time together) is because the relationship they have is so passionate and so strong that petty squabbles wouldn’t add enough drama to the relationship. Belle and Rumple arguing over Rumple not putting the toilet seat down would be great for fans to see, however the casual audience may think it is just a waste of screentime.

Oh I agree. These two are really open with each other and they just respect each other way too much to engage in ridiculous blow ups over stupid, foolish things.  I also think fans would be happy if we just got a few of these scenes; the sad thing is, we’re really not asking for a lot…..just a few scenes sprinkled here and there would be sufficient. I think it’s also important to do that in order to ground the show in reality………
Price, lol, the thing is, they have to stop kidding themselves. They just showed one of the most brutal scenes I’ve ever seen, Pan tossing his poor son against the wall, kicking him and basically just hurling (from earlier in the scene) the most abusive words.  I mean, that was HARD to watch…and we have seen deaths.  It really bugs the *** out of me that  we have to deal with a Rumple/Cora wheel scene (which did nothing for me because I saw no chemistry, but the point is that was supposed to be sexy) or a Jack/James scene, but we can’t get ,say, a recreation of the Skin Deep deleted scene? Denying these two their physicality is taking away so much of who they are. Bobby and Emilie can take the most innocent of scenes and turn it into something that requires a cold shower after watching, lol…….I mean, that’s why the deleted scene was deleted in the first place; it wasn’t supposed to be THAT erotic, lol.   This is not Saturday morning cartoons.  You made a show in large part about TL, so asking adults to watch the show, get emotionally attached to couples and yet not care about seeing any romance is really unfair by Adam/Eddy. Snowing gets ALL the kisses now and we even get to see them in bed (not that it does anything for me; they’re cute, but……..).  Why don’t we get the same thing with Rumbelle?

 

Oh and  YES to your last point, lol. How clunky was Snowing’s dialogue? That scene in Gold’s shop is my 2nd favorite Rumbelle scene ever, behind the phone call scene….and it’s NOT far behind, which is saying something.   I just adored their little flirty conversation, how we ALL know that when she said “perfect” and he said “thank you” that it was NOT about the tie, how he was so proud of himself, so impish (did you catch the adorable way he sort tilted his head back and forth, lol)..Oh please, they had just probably had the  best sex ever, then they have the best kiss ever (and it’s my favorite Rumbelle kiss, completely open-mouthed, sigh), leading to them deciding to screw the party and have more great sex, lol. Then they obviously get busy in the morning because Gold shows up at the diner with his hair hardly brushed and practically panting. It was all he could do not to sprint back to Belle at the counter, lol.
I’ll make a new post because this one I really rambled on in….

[betsypaige24]

I really think they need one “kitchen table” episode where everyone just sits around a kitchen table and talks. just hashes out everything. No magic fighting, no big bad, no curses…just raw character development.

I like this idea……I really thought that after NL, we’d settle back into SB for awhile, that we’d get a breather from villains and big baddies, and magical meanies and focus on relationship. Nope.

I agree. I think the show as a whole needs more balance in terms of external and internal conflict and a chance to breathe. There is so much drama between the characters that we don’t need a big bad, not really. It’s like thinking that our characters and couples can only grow in the presence of some looming threat, but if you think about your favorite shippy moments (most likely) they aren’t in the presence of some mythic evil. It’s an internal thing. Rumple kissing Belle in the hospital thinking that he can bring her back, but knowing he can’t. The 204 library scene. 201 “that’s the reason I have to stay:”

The problem with the show is it’s premise; it’s a GREAT premise and I think Adam and Eddy still don’t know how to reign themselves in. I agree completely with what you said.. and there are a zillion other moments between Rumbelle that make me cry, make my stomach do flip flops, etc.. I am NOT a romantic person or a girly girl – but heavens,. Rumbelle makes me believe in epic and enduring love. That’s what I see when I see them, sigh.

Ditto. Once I stopped weeping hysterically, I was just so proud of him.

Honestly? I’m never going to stop weeping; my heart breaks into a million pieces at his last goodbyes, knowing he’s saying goodbye. What kills me is that he thought he had a future; he had JUST told Belle that the only path he wanted was the one where they are together and now the only path he can take is the one where they can never be together.

Think about how suddenly this all happened. Just two days ago, he thought Pan was trapped forever and he had a happy future with Belle and Bae.  Then Pan did the old switcharoo, and really there wasn’t that much time between then and the sacrifice.  So in essence,  Gold still thought he  had a future up until maybe half hour or so before his last scene. Then, he had to make the ultimate decision. My baby had such little time to process the fact of his own death……it’s heartbreaking. Everything happened so quickly – even the goodbyes.
It’s very telling, sigh, that Gold told Bae that he accepted the fact that Bae would find happiness without him. As a father, I think he was able to do this because parents have to let go if their adult children all the time. Of course he’s pained that he won’t get to know his son again, but Gold knows that Bae will be happy and that’s all that matters.

With Belle, not only can’t Gold promise her happiness (she’s losing her happy ending, HIM), but he is, in fact, dying with immense regret and pain. I don’t believe he came to terms with the fact that he and Belle would never have a life together, that they were denied a future, a family. That is to say, he accepted it because that was the consequence of his decision, but there is no solace for him at all as there is with Bae….except perhaps that Belle would be spared to live a full life and that they did at least know the most extraordinary love. I loved how he told her she made him stronger, basically saying that he was able to make this sacrifice because of her. She’s  hero, as he said in the phone call scene – she’s always been his hero.
I still can’t get over that moment when Gold is frozen in place, like Belle, and he gazes  at her with the look of the most incredible love. He’s trying to memorize her, imprint her in his heart so that she will always be with him, even in death. It’s incredibly touching and speaks to their great love that Belle is the one he needs most to look at in his final moments, sob.

Belle is staring at Gold as well, completely helpless- and that is so tragic because she can’t say or do anything. Her eyes, though- they are so full of love- and that’s also something that Gold needs to take with him. She loved him, always did; he knows how magical and powerful their love is, he had faith in that love when he needed her to find Pandora’s Box. So, going to his death, he needs this last reminder of the lasting and epic love he and Belle shared.

 

Angie, I assume she’s been without Gold for a year (if we don’t see her mourning or see her/Bae bonding, I will not be happy to say the least), and that breaks my heart. No, it shatters it.  Once the shock wears off, I would hope that Belle would understand that she and Bae both essentially came back from the dead, so why can’t Gold? They have no body…..and I firmly believe that she would feel his presence…….and maybe she will, once they are in the same world.
I love seeing them fight to be together too, we all do; as Em has said, they have been through Hell and back for each other. She also recently said that their constant separations have been rough on each other…….that’s really a sad thing because they have had little time to savor their love. It’s just time, IMO, after this, for them to be doing their fighting together.

[Marty McFly]

The problem with the Rumbelle ship is that it’s representing sacrifice
I think we saw it most clearly in this 3rd season throughout NL
Pan kept telling Rumpel “you can go. leave the island” he kept
saying that Rumpel should go to Belle and start a new family.
Rumpel could have had his happy ending with Belle, but he chose Bae.
I think the whole relationship between Gold and Belle was simply to give the audience
something to cry about. even right before he dies he speaks to Bae first.
it’s there just to show us that no matter how wonderful this ship is,
the father in Rumpel will never put anything before his beloved son Bae.
even as far back as Skin Deep we see how when TLK the curse almost broke Rumpel exploded
because he needed the curse to find his son. he would not let himself get
distracted even though the distraction is so wonderful and loving and even though
he could use this true love to create another Emma, another product of true love.
this is probably why this relationship is so perfect with hardly any internal conflicts.
it’s there only to show how much Rumpel loved Bae
and also to torture our emotions.

[RumplesGirl]

The problem with the Rumbelle ship is that it’s representing sacrifice I think we saw it most clearly in this 3rd season throughout NL Pan kept telling Rumpel “you can go. leave the island” he kept saying that Rumpel should go to Belle and start a new family. Rumpel could have had his happy ending with Belle, but he chose Bae.

I see what you’re saying but if Rumple had left NL, taken Pan’s deal, gone home to Belle and said, “I’ll let the others handle Pan and Henry, let’s start out life,” Belle would have taken a book from the library shelf and hit him with it. The LAST thing she wants is for him to take the easy way out, which is what that would be. Writing off his grandson (and his son once he knew Nealfire was alive) would be the easy path. And redemption road is not an easy path. And if he had come home, neglecting Henry and his family, to start a new life with Belle, I don’t think it would be his HEA because Belle never would have approved.

Heck, knowing that girl, she’s find a portal, shove him through it, jump in after and say, “ok…let’s try this again”

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Marty McFly]

whoa what happened? I did something to the post by mistake

[betsypaige24]

I have to disagree with you, Marty, I’m sorry.

He didn’t choose, Bae – Gold was actually going to go with ShadowBelle until Regina showed that it was Pan and not real Belle (but this wasn’t about Bae anyway); that moment showed Gold (after his talk with Pan Daddy) how deeply he wants and needs a future with Belle.  It was the idea of Belle, his beloved,  who kicked his survival instinct (as he called it) into gear.

In TMD, Gold chose to speak to Belle, to tell her who she was, knowing he could literally die at any minute. His son was right there in front of him and he chose to speak to Belle. There were numerous instances in S2 where Gold prioritized Belle above anything. When Cora came to discuss the globe, Gold asked her if she had a spell to break the memory curse; he visited Belle at the hospital even before he pricked his finger. Had  Belle not been so angry with him at that point, he would have stayed in SB rather than going to NY right then to find Bae (he left so he wouldn’t kill Hook).

I don’t think it matters who he spoke to first in saying goodbye, to be honest…….and after he spoke to Belle, his gaze lingered on her; she’s the last vision he wanted to take with him.

Gold loves both of them VERY VERY deeply;  one is not more important than the other and in the end he sacrificed his life for both of them

 

[Author]

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