Belle & Rumplestiltskin Relationship Thread

[Keb]

So, the cut on Rumple’s throat: Parallels to Snowing (when they met and Snow cut Charming with the rock on the chin) and Zelena (when she shaved him and nicked him with the dagger so she could break the blood magic on his safe–where, incidentally, the real dagger was shown to now be). Very interesting parallels there to explore when I have more time.

Oh, and the fact he didn’t heal it before facing DQ: Keeping it like a reminder the way he did his lame leg in S2? Or wearing it to remind himself why DQ needs a serious warning?

[killianhookfan]

I actually think it was done to show that his guard is down and he is worrying about the wrong person.  Rumple is one messed up cookie right now – he has,and is, screwing up big time.  He has always been so concerned about making sure he has more power than everyone else and making sure he has the upper hand with the other villains.  He never worried about Belle having any control over him because she didn’t have the real dagger and even if she did he never thought she would ever use it.  Well, crap – wrong he was.  The person he thought he would never have to worry about was the person who managed to cut him – it was just symbolic, but now it shows that he is no longer safe with ANYONE, including Belle.  Not just because he has kept secrets from her, but because it is impossible for him to keep his guard up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with every single person on the planet – including his own wife.

All these characters have pasts, I don’t really think you can call them “secrets”, that affect who they are today.  They have to choose whether or not they feel it’s necessary to share certain things about their past with the people they love.  That’s why I don’t think you can call them secrets.  Obviously some things affect the people you love and SHOULD be shared.  If you need to do something that requires you to use a centuries old dagger to control your spouse in order to alleviate your guilty conscience to rescue someone – I put that in the “SHOULD be shared with your spouse” column.  So while Rumple is seriously messed up, Belle isn’t helping the situation.  Had she explained what had happened in HER past, would THAT have been the trigger to make Rumple realize that he should NOT be in cahoots with the Snow Queen AT ALL, should come clean with Belle about everything, and should work with the rest of the town to get rid of DQ?  Not that I think Belle should be responsible for Rumple’s actions, but if she HAD been honest with him the way she USUALLY is, maybe the outcome would have been different.  Now BOTH Belle AND Rumple are in deeper than they where before.

As much as I hate to say it, because I loved Rumbelle (it saddens me that I use the past tense), it may be more realistic in the case of their relationship to have Rumple NOT be able to recover into the person we all WANTED him to be when we saw Skin Deep.  If  you look at who Rumple is and what his ADDICTION is, it really is NOT realistic for him to be able to recover now that he has Belle and has married her, he has already fallen off the wagon – it’s more realistic for him to continue to apologize to her, tell her he won’t do it again, then get drawn right back into his addiction again.  And I can’t decide if this is what I want or not – because I LOVE Rumple (and Robert Carlyle) when he is sinister and creepy but with a hint of regret.  That to me is what works best on the show – and is probably WHY I loved Skin Deep so much.  It truly WAS Beauty and the Beast.  You WANTED that SO badly for Rumple . . . but in the end he didn’t get it and you hoped he could.  I think maybe he might end up being the one character that just cannot be redeemed – which might just be okay now, for me.

[PriceofMagic]

This episode has certainly closed the trap around Rumple, all of Belle’s actions this episode relate directly to Rumple’s lies and gave him reason why he couldn’t tell the truth. Every time Rumple was caught in the lie, his reaction was to panic and lie his way out of it thus digging himself deeper.

The Dagger- Belle attempted to use the dagger on Rumple. Because it was a fake, at least Rumple could do his best to keep Belle safe even if he had to play along with being controlled. For example, Going inside the cave and getting Belle and taking them back to the shop before the SQ came. He couldn’t have done that if Belle had the real dagger as he would’ve been bound to stay outside and he would’ve had to let go when Belle was telling him to in the cave. Thus he can’t tell Belle about the dagger because keeping her safe requires him to be in control of himself at all times.

The Hat- Belle knows what the hat does, she knows it’s not a good thing. Besides the fact that Rumple panicked and denied all knowledge of the hat, Belle’s attitude towards the hat suggests that if she found out Rumple had the hat all along and had used it, she won’t be very happy with him thus telling her about the hat is no longer an option for Rumple.

The lie- Belle is beating herself up over telling a small lie because she “knows Rumple would never keep a secret from her”. That line right there is the reason why Rumple can’t tell her he lied.

It’s the classic two people have something to say to each other, one happy, one not happy and because the happy one goes first, it prevents the unhappy one from saying their piece or vice versa if that makes sense. It is commonly used in tv when one character has “news”. For example, if a guy want to break up with a girl and the girl wants to tell him she’s pregnant. If the girl goes first, it prevents the guy from breaking up with her as he can’t just leave her in that situation. If the guy goes first, it prevents the girl from telling him she’s pregnant because she doesn’t want to tie him down.

Belle’s “I know you would never keep (a secret) from me” is that line.

Also Rumple doesn’t want to lose Belle. After Bae’s death, Belle is the only person left that Rumple truly cares about (maybe Henry too but that is more by proxy of Neal than Henry in his own right). Rumple’s lies are because he doesn’t want to lose Belle but ironically it is the lies that are going to cause him to lose Belle.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[ready_to_rumbelle]

Has anybody else been wondering why Belle never confronts Rumple about the dagger and/or the hat?

Anna told her that she had stolen the box with the hat from an evil sorcerer and later Belle tells her father about said wizard and she knows that it’s Rumple. That also means that Belle knows that Rumple knew Anna and that he lied to Elsa and Emma when she commanded him with the dagger to tell the truth (Ep 4.03 Rocky Road). Consequently, she MUST know that the dagger he gave is not real. Do you guys think she simply forgot about these little details or that she just ignores them and doesn’t want to deal with her husband’s lies and the big fight that would probably follow if she confronted him?

[PriceofMagic]

I think Belle does know that the dagger is a fake but she doesn’t want to accept the fact it’s a fake. The mirror only confronted Belle with her own negative thoughts.

Belle’s logic seems to be “Rumple wouldn’t lie to me because he loves me” she can’t seem to grasp that Rumple can lie to her and still love her. Her logic seems to be he loves her and wouldn’t lie or he’s lying and doesn’t love her which is the angle the mirror was going for.

Belle knows Rumple loves her therefore him lying to her doesn’t make sense and she doesn’t want to consider the possibility that he doesn’t love her (when he clearly does love her).

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Keb]

The mirror did speak some truths, but it was echoing her inner doubts (it was a very, very accurate portrayal of depression, in my experience), some of which had a good basis in truth and some of which did not.

Rumple reassures her that nothing the mirror said was true–but we know that some of it was. Belle’s going to trust him, though, because she loves him and -needs- him to be right for her own self image and security.

Oh, and Anna refused to say Rumple’s name. Belle told her father she found it in her research. So it’s possible that Belle’s never made the connection between Rumple & Anna, especially since, while Anna saw him at his most monstrous, Belle witnesses him torturing and trying to kill Robin Hood and still sees the good in him only a few weeks later–she never completely buys his “I’m a horrible monster” mask. It’s entirely possible she believed Anna was talking about someone else, if it ever came up in her mind after that.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[ready_to_rumbelle]

I think Belle does know that the dagger is a fake but she doesn’t want to accept the fact it’s a fake. The mirror only confronted Belle with her own negative thoughts. Belle’s logic seems to be “Rumple wouldn’t lie to me because he loves me” she can’t seem to grasp that Rumple can lie to her and still love her. Her logic seems to be he loves her and wouldn’t lie or he’s lying and doesn’t love her which is the angle the mirror was going for. Belle knows Rumple loves her therefore him lying to her doesn’t make sense and she doesn’t want to consider the possibility that he doesn’t love her (when he clearly does love her).

Generally, I understand your logic but if you think of Broken or Crocodile, she confronted him with his lies and manipulations and didn’t accept it. I’m totally with you that she just doesn’t want to accept it but the next question would be why she acts that way. Is she applying a different standard now since Bae died or does she simply ignore it because she can’t deal with more arguing, separating or whatever might be the consequence?

Oh, and Anna refused to say Rumple’s name. Belle told her father she found it in her research. So it’s possible that Belle’s never made the connection between Rumple & Anna, especially since, while Anna saw him at his most monstrous, Belle witnesses him torturing and trying to kill Robin Hood and still sees the good in him only a few weeks later–she never completely buys his “I’m a horrible monster” mask. It’s entirely possible she believed Anna was talking about someone else, if it ever came up in her mind after that.

Are there that many “twisted”, evil, super powerful wizards in the enchanted forest? As far as I can recall we’ve only met one male magician and that would be Rumple. So it would be a bit far off for her to believe that Anna talked about another one. Btw. I got the impression that Belle started her research after Anna told her about a sorcerer.

[PriceofMagic]

Generally, I understand your logic but if you think of Broken or Crocodile, she confronted him with his lies and manipulations and didn’t accept it. I’m totally with you that she just doesn’t want to accept it but the next question would be why she acts that way. Is she applying a different standard now since Bae died or does she simply ignore it because she can’t deal with more arguing, separating or whatever might be the consequence?

A lot of things have happened since the Crocodile. Bae died, RumBelle got married, Rumple died and came back and was enslaved for a whole year. Also, Broken and Crocodile happened not long after RumBelle were reunited after a 28+ year separation so they were both still finding their feet within the relationship. The fact that they are married now and that Rumple gave Belle the “dagger” was a huge sign of trust. I think Belle always has that small nagging doubt in the back of her mind that Rumple knows more than he lets on or that he’s not always so innocent as he makes himself out to be. He did look at him questionably before the videotape of Zelena’s death “proved” his innocence.

I also think Belle fears that Rumple hasn’t changed and she doesn’t want that to be true. She had that dream in the Crocodile but she said to Hook in the Outsider “I believe he’s changed”. The mirror may have called Belle a coward because Belle has these doubts about Rumple but she’s to afraid to confront him about them in case they are either true or it shows she lacks faith in him. Belle also likes to feel needed by Rumple. She was depressed when Rumple was in Neverland until he needed her to get Pandora’s box. She probably feels that Rumple needs her to have faith in him otherwise he will revert back to his evil ways.

There is also the matter of gut-feeling vs “evidence”. Belle may have the feeling that all is not as it seems yet the “evidence” proves otherwise.

Are there that many “twisted”, evil, super powerful wizards in the enchanted forest? As far as I can recall we’ve only met one male magician and that would be Rumple. So it would be a bit far off for her to believe that Anna talked about another one. Btw. I got the impression that Belle started her research after Anna told her about a sorcerer.

Rumple had a reputation and it appears calling him was a last resort rather than a first option for Maurice to help with the ogres. Yet Rumple isn’t necessarily known throughout the land since Cinderella was happy to strike a deal with him. I think there probably are more magic users in the EF, those stars in the hat had to come from somewhere, so it’s not outside the realm of possibility that Belle didn’t connect the dots.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Keb]

If they hadn’t specifically kept Anna from saying his name, I’d say it was a BIG plot hole. But they did, and I think that was intentional to close the plot hole a bit. Also, my impression was that Belle had done a ton of research (as is her wont) before she went to Arendelle. She might have run across Rumple’s name in all those books she was looking at when her dad told her she had to stay in her room.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[ready_to_rumbelle]

You both have good arguments and eventually we’ll just have to wait and see how everything turns out. And frankly, it’s A&E we’re talking about, so anything is possible 🙂

But it’s entirely possible that Belle knows it was him. Just look at her face in this video from Rocky Road after she uses the dagger. I assumed she was p***ed at Emma and Hook at first but now I think maybe that was Emilie de Ravin purposely pulling a face because in that moment Belle knows the dagger is fake…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsCW1W0xM-Y

Anyhow, I can’t wait to see how this whole dagger thing will unfold.

[Author]

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