Belle

[RumplesGirl]

didn’t mind RumBelle’s wedding not having many people there. It was so them, they’re private people, they don’t go for the big and lavish like Snowing. They had the people there that mattered to them plus Archie to officiate. I guarantee Neal would’ve been there as well had he lived.

But Neal’s son doesn’t warrant an invite.

I think Belle has been a victim of lack of screentime. Same with Neal. The writers don’t have time to show the characters just having a nice day, asking how each other’s been, etc

Not what I’m asking for. Why can’t Belle have a conversation with Emma about Neal? Or about Rumple? Or why can’t she interact with Henry in the library. She’s the only person who hasn’t been his babysitter. Why can’t Belle just sit with Snowing, Emma, Regina and Hook and try to plan the take down of the next big bad? She’s never apart of the planning. She’s research girl. And once they have their research, the writers find a way to get off camera–more research, she’s knocked unconscious.

Belle is a major player in Rumple’s story and I’m optimistic that, with Rumple’s lies over the dagger and Zelena’s death, RumBelle may actually get some of the limelight next season and with it, we may actually get some Belle centrics. I think Snowing may take a bit of a backseat next season.

Of course she’s a major player in Rumple’s arc. That’s never been up in the air. What’ troublesome is that she doesn’t have an arc of her own. She’s prop for Rumple. Her whole story and being centers on her relationship with Rumple.

And Snowing will never take a big back seat. They are still the main drive of the show. (not to mention that GG is the lead star. Contracts and such)

[seamstress]

They’ve given us glimpses of Belle being strong and powerful, but they’ve also shown Belle as being, in my opinion, almost blind when it comes to the Dark side of Rumple

This is why I asked if she’s a believable character. Let’s say she knows everything he’s ever done. Great. And I get that it’s true love and she sees the man behind the monster, but she doesn’t admonish him for it any more, either. When she learned how Milah died, she never even blinked. Didn’t bring it up at all after the fact. That’s troublesome, from a writing and a chhttps://oncepodcast.com/forums/topic/belle/page/58/aracter standpint.

I think it’s because Belle saw that Rumple feels guilty for killing Milah and didn’t want to torment him more. And maybe that’s why it seems like she’s almost blind to his other deeds as well. Rumple already knows that the things he has done aren’t pretty, so there’s no reason to scold.

Screwball Ninja wrote an essay on the subject. That’s pretty much how I see it too.

I also think that they talked about Milah while driving to the town line, given that awkward silence before Rumple’s “after everything I’ve done” speech.

However, I do hope  that Belle’s thoughts on Rumple’s dark side and the DO curse will be explored more. She said she loves all of him, even the parts that belong to the darkness, but obviously she doesn’t approve of his violent behavior. In Skin Deep, she believed it’s the DO curse that makes Rumple do bad things (“I could love him, except.. something evil has taken root in him.”-“Sounds like a curse to me.”). Does she still think it’s due to the DO curse (I personally think it has a part in it) and is just waiting for the right moment to the curse-breaking TLK (whenever Rumple is ready)? And how much does she know about the DO curse in general?

And Belle should also get some backstory outside of her relationship with Rumple. It could help us understand her character better.  Belle has been around since season 1, and yet we know hardly anything about her past. It’s such a shame..

 

 

[RumplesGirl]

I think it’s because Belle saw that Rumple feels guilty for killing Milah and didn’t want to torment him more. And maybe that’s why it seems like she’s almost blind to his other deeds as well. Rumple already knows that the things he has done aren’t pretty, so there’s no reason to scold.

I’ve never said it needed to be a scolding though. So long as Rumple pushes it into the past he doesn’t face his actions, which have been terrible. He has murdered, many times, for a whole host of reasons. He can’t just say “I was different then. It was the curse” and never pay the piper his pound of flesh (yes mixing metaphors!)

He needs to TALK about them. Acknowledge that he has done wrong. He did it in the name of family and love and power and desire and fear but he still did them. And I still love him. But he needs to be more open about the fact that he has done wrong.

I also think that they talked about Milah while driving to the town line, given that awkward silence before Rumple’s “after everything I’ve done” speech.

Off screen conversations have little relevance, though. I don’t know what they talked about or what they didn’t talk about. I don’t know what he said/she said. Same goes for Moe and Belle. They made up??? Great? Um. I’d like to have been a fly on that wall.

And Belle should also get some backstory outside of her relationship with Rumple. It could help us understand her character better. Belle has been around since season 1, and yet we know hardly anything about her past. It’s such a shame..

I agree. They’ve wasted Belle because she was a shiny new toy that their fandom LOVED. I mean…the fandom just exploded after Skin Deep. Rumbelle became THE pair for the longest time. And that excited A and E. But then they got Belle into the show for good and had zero idea what to do with her. She was a shiny new toy but she didn’t compare to the other shiny new toys like Cora.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Epona_610]

I think it’s because Belle saw that Rumple feels guilty for killing Milah and didn’t want to torment him more 

 

Does he feel guilty about that? Did he say that? Or did it look like he felt guilty at some point? I really don’t remember getting that impression, but I seem to find something I’ve missed every time I rewatch an episode. 🙂

No matter how he felt though, I always did find Belle’s reaction to learning about that a bit unbelievable. I mean all she does is try to deny it a couple of times and then I don’t think we see her bring it up to Rumple at all, do we? I’d think at the very least, even if she’s able to overlook the murder part since it happened so long ago, she’d be upset about the more recent lie of omission since he apparently had told her that his wife died without mentioning that he was the one who killed her.

[obisgirl]

Rumple at all, do we? I’d think at the very least, even if she’s able to overlook the murder part since it happened so long ago, she’d be upset about the more recent lie of omission since he apparently had told her that his wife died without mentioning that he was the one who killed her.

I think season four might be a good moment to probably bring up Milah’s death and contrast it with what to Zelena. Both times Rumple reacted drastically and lied about it to someone he loved. And maybe give Belle another look at what happened there.

[PriceofMagic]

I think it would be interesting to see Belle have a more Lacey-like reaction to finding out Rumple killed Zelena. The lies would definitely cause a massive argument between RumBelle but Zelena hasn’t done anything to garner sympathy from any of the other characters.

I’d like to see Belle stand by Rumple and it could also make Rumple realise that he has to change for the better, otherwise he’s going to drag Belle down into the darkness with him rather than her pulling him up out of the darkness.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[seamstress]

seamstress wrote:

I think it’s because Belle saw that Rumple feels guilty for killing Milah and didn’t want to torment him more. And maybe that’s why it seems like she’s almost blind to his other deeds as well. Rumple already knows that the things he has done aren’t pretty, so there’s no reason to scold.

I’ve never said it needed to be a scolding though. So long as Rumple pushes it into the past he doesn’t face his actions, which have been terrible. He has murdered, many times, for a whole host of reasons. He can’t just say “I was different then. It was the curse” and never pay the piper his pound of flesh (yes mixing metaphors!) He needs to TALK about them. Acknowledge that he has done wrong. He did it in the name of family and love and power and desire and fear but he still did them. And I still love him. But he needs to be more open about the fact that he has done wrong.

Now I get it, and agree. 🙂

And furthermore, I would like Belle to explain to Rumple what exactly is the great good she sees in him. I mean, she keeps telling him that “there is good in you”, but I don’t think Rumple really understands what she means by it. He still thinks he’s a monster. It seems like Rumple’s view of Rumple and Belle’s view of Rumple are in conflict. Perhaps that’s the problem there..

seamstress wrote:

I also think that they talked about Milah while driving to the town line, given that awkward silence before Rumple’s “after everything I’ve done” speech.

Off screen conversations have little relevance, though. I don’t know what they talked about or what they didn’t talk about. I don’t know what he said/she said. Same goes for Moe and Belle. They made up??? Great? Um. I’d like to have been a fly on that wall.

I know, and same here.. It’s unfortunate that even though they were together practically for the whole first half of s2, we saw just glimpses of them, mostly when Rumple was needed by the Charmings/Regina. We really don’t know how much they actually discussed things. And after The Outsider, they haven’t had much time to really be together.

It’s true that there are issues in their relationship, and this dagger mess would be a good opportunity to bring them again on the table.

seamstress wrote:

I think it’s because Belle saw that Rumple feels guilty for killing Milah and didn’t want to torment him more

Does he feel guilty about that? Did he say that? Or did it look like he felt guilty at some point? I really don’t remember getting that impression, but I seem to find something I’ve missed every time I rewatch an episode.

Well, I did get that impression. And I know I’m not the only one. I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. 🙂

 

 

 

 

[RumplesGirl]

I think it would be interesting to see Belle have a more Lacey-like reaction to finding out Rumple killed Zelena. The lies would definitely cause a massive argument between RumBelle but Zelena hasn’t done anything to garner sympathy from any of the other characters. I’d like to see Belle stand by Rumple and it could also make Rumple realise that he has to change for the better, otherwise he’s going to drag Belle down into the darkness with him rather than her pulling him up out of the darkness.

I don’t necessarily disagree about the things you think are interesting or want; I want Rumple and Belle’s relationship to develop just as much as the next die hard Rumbeller. But in a round about way, you’re making the point that I keep coming back to: Belle has no existence outside of Rumple. Her entire story and character is developed only in its connection to Rumple. She does not exist independently and outside of her romantic relationship. I find this to be incredibly problematic. For example, look at some of the other core characters on the show and the storyline/arcs they have

Regina
Henry and being a mother

Her own mother
Her reliance on magic
Her sister
Snow White and their “war”
Emma Swan and trying to be co-parents together
Reforming her image
And yes, her ongoing romantic struggles with Daniel’s memory or learning to love again with Robin
Emma

Henry and being a mother
Learning how to be a Savior
Developing relationships with Snow and Charming
Coming to terms with her past
Finding her home
Neal’s death and a new love interest with Hook

Snow

Being a mother who lost the first 28 years with Emma
Being a Queen/Princess/Leader
Being a new mother to baby Prince Neal
Her ongoing evaluation of what is good and just
Regina and coming to terms with the past
And yes, her marriage to Prince Charming

Charming

Being a father who lost the first 28 years with Emma
Being a Shepherd turn Prince turn King
Having a twin who was far darker than he
Fearing of loosing his new child
Regina and coming to terms with the past
And yes, his marriage to Snow White

Rumple

Coming back from the darkness, or at least trying
Being locked up and tortured
Finding his son
Loosing his son
Trying to figure out what family mean
His reliance on magic
And yes, his future with Belle

Now let’s do Belle

Belle

Rumple
Moe–but not really. We’re not given any insight into her relationship with her father except that everything is now okay? The second most important storyline for Belle, and one that would have given her some more color outside of Rumbelle, was totally shunted to the side.

—I think some people might put Ariel here as a storyline, but I disagree. I like the two interacting, but the entire episode was about Rumple and Belle’s love for him, not about the two women in their own rights. Ariel wanted to be reunited with Eric, Belle wanted to help Rumple. In an episode where they could have shown Belle standing on her own (because in 222 she says that she WILL see him again), they chose to have her sad and depressed, not eating, and thinking that Rumple doesn’t need her. The one semi-Belle centric we got was all about Rumple and Rumbelle, not Belle

I’m not asking that Belle be suddenly at the forefront of everything and have to deal with the same sort of issues that Regina and Emma and Snow and Charming deal with–Belle is not a mother so I don’t expect her to have those issues. But the writers, it seems, are intent on keeping Belle as merely a prop for Rumple’s arc and nothing more. She does the research thing but it’s 1) a way to keep her off screen but somehow still “important” and 2) a way to appease fans who claim that they never let Belle do anything and were angry that she got left behind for the NL arc.

 

ETA: holy ugly code, Batman. I’ll fix it.

ETA 2: fixed. I’ll Daniel know this is happening

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Jenna_B]

The writers took such drastic turns first having Rumple propose, then kill Z, then lie about it, then have RumBelle actually marry that they really need to devote a good portion of time to their story to make it not only believable but acceptable in S4 so I’m hoping for a big arc for them.  Even sacrificing Emma, Regina and/or their ships, etc.  (Unless they work on Emma and Snow’s relationship too.  For me that one needs the most time followed by RumBelle)

[RumplesGirl]

The writers took such drastic turns first having Rumple propose, then kill Z, then lie about it, then have RumBelle actually marry that they really need to devote a good portion of time to their story to make it not only believable but acceptable in S4 so I’m hoping for a big arc for them. Even sacrificing Emma, Regina and/or their ships, etc. (Unless they work on Emma and Snow’s relationship too. For me that one needs the most time followed by RumBelle)

Honestly, I think a better storyline would have been (if they were dead set on Rumple killing Zelena) :

–Rumple killing Zelena

–Trying to move on with Belle and grieve for Neal

–Belle finding out

–Belle leaving and Rumple getting a clue that he can’t do this sort of stuff anymore

–Fights and reconciliations

–Marriage

Because now in S4A with Elsa and the Frozen storyline (whatever it may be), CS, Snowing and new baby, OQ/Marian drama, Emma/Regina drama…all in 11 episodes, it scares me that the Belle/Rumple-pocalypse (and it should be a giant/huge/explosive point of narrative) will be reduced to one episode where Belle learns, leaves, comes back–a la 201 “Broken” when she learned that Rumple sent the Wraith after Regina.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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