Belle

[obisgirl]

Here’s a question for you all: Since Belle has not had major character development outside of her relationship with Rumple, would you consider her as a plot device character?

[RumplesGirl]

Here’s a question for you all: Since Belle has not had major character development outside of her relationship with Rumple, would you consider her as a plot device character?

Not really. For her to be a plot device character, she’d have to be instrumental in pushing the story along. The story can (and does) exist well enough without her. If you take away Belle would any character outside of Rumple be sincerely affected?

She’s a prop. She’s used to hold up Rumple and give him humanity. And I don’t mean to discredit Rumbelle or anything; everyone knows that I love them.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

Okay, maybe I should have phrased that differently.   I think what I’m trying to get at here is what was Belle’s life before Rumple? Because there’s very little, IMO, we know what her life was like before she met in Skin Deep.

What we know:
She was engaged to Gaston (arranged marriage) and she never truly cared for him.
She loves books.
Her father was a Duke, or something.
She wasn’t a Princess but judging from that gold dress, she lived a fairly comfortable lifestyle.
For most of the other characters we know on OUAT, generally, we know what their life was like before they met their respective partner.  We know Emma was an orphan and had been alone for most of her life.  David was a shepherd before he was a Prince.  Snow was a former princess turned bandit fugitive before she met Charming.

As for Belle,  her introduction into OUAT was tied to Rumple’s.

We didn’t get a prequel episode of what Belle’s life was like before she met him.  You see what I’m saying here?

I agree, she’s a prop for Rumple, to help make him look good but a lot of Oncers already had sympathy for him because of what happened with Bae.  (Myself included). Fathers fighting for their children will always be sexy.

[PriceofMagic]

Screwball’s posted a little mini essay in reply to a prompt about why Rumple keeps the fake dagger. Thought it was worth posting here.

http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/88877396896/why-rumples-keeping-the-fake-dagger-prompt

I think Belle’s current story so far is based around Rumple, much like Charming’s story so far has been based around Snow. They are major supporting players to their other halves and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

In any tv show, there will always be the leading characters, the major supporting characters, then the minor supporting characters. So in Once, it would go like this:

Leading: Emma, Rumple, Regina, Snow

Major Supporting: Hook, Belle, Charming, Henry

Minor supporting: The rest of the storybrooke regulars.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

We didn’t get a prequel episode of what Belle’s life was like before she met him. You see what I’m saying here?

Yup. Because her story begins and ends with Rumple. No one else can on the show can make that claim, that their entire story is centered on their love interest.

Hook: brother, Milah, Rumple, Neal LONG BEFORE we got Emma Swan and Hook

Regina: her true story actually begins with Rumple and Cora LONG BEFORE Daniel OR Robin

Snow: her true story begins with her parents and then her and Regina. BEFORE she ever met Charming

Charming: his real story begins with Rumple, George, and his Twin. BEFORE he ever met Snow

 

much like Charming’s story so far has been based around Snow.

But that’s not true at all. I made an entire list one page back about each story or arc both Snow and Charming have had that are independent of the other. Does Snow get more attention? Yes. But that’s not the point. The point is that Charming has his own storyline that doesn’t go back to Snow. And same with Snow.

n any tv show, there will always be the leading characters, the major supporting characters, then the minor supporting characters. So in Once, it would go like this: Leading: Emma, Rumple, Regina, Snow Major Supporting: Hook, Belle, Charming, Henry Minor supporting: The rest of the storybrooke regulars.

And again, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I even said that I don’t expect Belle to be at the center of it all. But she’s not even a Major Supporting, which is what you’ve classified her as.

Look at the list for major supporting.

Hook: Emma, Rumple, Neal <--those are the people his story revolves around / intersect with Charming: Snow, Emma, Henry, Regina <--his story intersects those characters Henry: Emma, Regina, Snow, Charming, Rumple, Neal <--his story is part of everyone's really Belle? Rumple. Her story is almost exclusively wrapped up in Rumple. Even her own family members (Moe) and her story with them happen off screen.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

Charming’s story began with meeting Snow (Snow Falls) We then got his backstory which ends with the events leading up to meeting Snow (The shepherd), Charming’s story from that point on throughout season 1 has been “I will find you” to Snow. Then in season 2 when Snow and Emma were whisked off to FTL, Charming’s story was about trying to get them back. Subsequent flashbacks from then onwards featuring Charming have always been more centred around Snow.

We’ve just not had a flashback yet about Belle and her life pre-Rumple (though during season 3 when the spoiler of death was ongoing, someone asked A&E about Belle’s life pre-Rumple and A&E said it was something they’d like to explore “next year” which could indicate we may get something in season 4).

We’ve seen Belle interact with others outside of Rumple (Red in child of the moon, Archie and Ariel in Dark Hollow)so it does happen, just not that often. Belle’s link to the main cast is through Rumple though so it’s natural that her interactions with the rest of the family are going to be somewhat based around Rumple.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

Charming’s story began with meeting Snow (Snow Falls) We then got his backstory which ends with the events leading up to meeting Snow (The shepherd), Charming’s story from that point on throughout season 1 has been “I will find you” to Snow. Then in season 2 when Snow and Emma were whisked off to FTL, Charming’s story was about trying to get them back. Subsequent flashbacks from then onwards featuring Charming have always been more centred around Snow.

Story beginning doesn’t mean first episode. His story being with Rumple and deals and George. And his brother James and then moves into Abigail and THEN into Snow and then into Snow/Emma. But it doesn’t change the fact that his centric this season had nothing to do with Snow. It was about him and his role as a father. Snow is the mother in the situation, but the story has nothing to do with Snow as mother–Charming could have felt like a failure as a father with anyone because of how the narrative was shaped. Thus, 314 was about Charming and not about Snow and Charming.

We’ve just not had a flashback yet about Belle and her life pre-Rumple (though during season 3 when the spoiler of death was ongoing, someone asked A&E about Belle’s life pre-Rumple and A&E said it was something they’d like to explore “next year” which could indicate we may get something in season 4).

They said it’s something they’d like to do, but that doesn’t mean they are going to do it. At that point, apart from Elsa, they really don’t know much about the scope of the next season. And certainly not what centrics they may or may not have. I mean what are they going to say: “We don’t know what to do with Belle, so you’ll never get her story. Sorry.”

We’ve seen Belle interact with others outside of Rumple (Red in child of the moon, Archie and Ariel in Dark Hollow)so it does happen, just not that often. Belle’s link to the main cast is through Rumple though so it’s natural that her interactions with the rest of the family are going to be somewhat based around Rumple.

If your definition of interaction is being in the same room as that person or maybe saying one or two words, then that speaks volumes about Belle’s role in the show and how the writers treat her.

Red: they had two episodes of a budding friendship before it was subsequently forgotten.

Archie: They spoke. Archie married then which was okay but also odd since Archie and Belle haven’t had any meaningful interaction since Dark Hollow

Ariel: I like the two interacting, but the entire episode was about Rumple and Belle’s love for him, not about the two women in their own rights. Ariel wanted to be reunited with Eric, Belle wanted to help Rumple. In an episode where they could have shown Belle standing on her own (because in 222 she says that she WILL see him again), they chose to have her sad and depressed, not eating, and thinking that Rumple doesn’t need her. The one semi-Belle centric we got was all about Rumple and Rumbelle, not Belle

As for her interaction with the rest of the family what interaction with the rest of the family?

She almost never speaks to any of them unless she’s being exposition girl.

It’s past time for Belle’s story. Every opportunity they’ve had to develop her outside of Rumple, they choose not to. Even with her own father, it’s sidelined and instead becomes a Rumple and Belle thing.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

It’s past time for Belle’s story. Every opportunity they’ve had to develop her outside of Rumple, they choose not to. Even with her own father, it’s sidelined and instead becomes a Rumple and Belle thing.

I do agree Belle needs story that doesn’t revolve around Rumple, however flashback wise, Belle hasn’t really got much going on. With the exception of the little stint in the Outsider, Belle’s life post Skin Deep (Which would’ve been a prime target for story) was basically sat in a cell as Regina’s prisoner keeping track of the days. Hook’s little visit in Queen of Hearts showed us all we needed to see of Belle’s time as captive, barring any escape attempts she may have tried. Belle’s exposition dialogue in Broken basically covered her time between her capture by Regina and her reunion with Rumple: Locked up in Regina’s cell then locked up in the asylum until Jefferson freed her. Belle’s life pre-Skin Deep has opportunity for story but not much unless they plan on reintroducing the concept of the ogre wars and we see Belle during the war her town was losing until they decided to call upon the dark one.

Belle’s best bet for story resides in present day, however, with Rumple there, it’s natural that she’s going to stick by his side.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[RumplesGirl]

however flashback wise, Belle hasn’t really got much going on

And here’s the problem I have with this: A and E are WRITERS. Make it up! Maybe she managed to escape from Regina once. Maybe a teenager she encountered Gwen from Camelot. Maybe her mother was a sorceress from a deep woods and Moe had to hide his child for her safety. Lookit. I just came up with three ideas off the top of my head.

Simply giving the writers an out as ‘well she doesn’t have much going on” is extremely problematic, again. These men made PP Rumple’s father….they can give Belle any sort of backstory they want. Simply saying that she has no backstory because she was locked up is once again reducing her entire character to a prop for Rumple.

Belle’s best bet for story resides in present day, however, with Rumple there, it’s natural that she’s going to stick by his side

I haven’t said that she shouldn’t be with Rumple. I’m saying that there are many other characters for whom it would be natural for her to interact. Have her and Henry in the library discussing fairy tales and the nature of the villain in the stories–the son of the EQ and the lover of the Beast… it’s so fairy tale and natural the fact that it hasnt’ happened is almost ludicrous. Have her and Snow trade war stories about their adventures as independent women. Have her and Emma go on a stake out and discuss…heck…anything!

Belle’s story with Rumple IS important, of course. What I’m arguing against is reducing her character to just that.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Myril]

Belle had a story not revolving around Rumple. Given, it was after she’d met Rumple, but so what, Rumple came into play only at the end of the episode being the reason why Regina went after Belle and imprisoned. Otherwise hunting down the Yaoguai was Belle’s story, showing that going on adventure was something she still wanted to do and did on her own, that she is smart, that smart is at time what changes lives to the better, that Belle is someone seeing beyond what there is on first sight, saving Phillip’s live, giving Mulan an idea about that not just the sword matters and being a hero can come in other forms (preparing nicely what Mulan later saw in Aurora). That story told so much more about Belle as character than I at the moment can imagine any childhood story, any how was life before Rumple story could have done or would.

I get that people are more interested in her background when they love a character, that is okay, I would love to have the whole life story of Granny and Red, just because. But the question is, what more do we need to know about the character? Does it move the story on, does it show a new side of the character or something that needs some background to be explained? Would looking into the past of a character raise a new interesting matter for the show or for the character? I feel like it would have been a lot more important and is a far bigger fail for the show to show a significant moment of Emma’s foster past to understand why she was such a runner, but all we got was a mere minute, a glimpse, though it added really something.

So question: What could be revealed or adressed showing Belle before she met Rumple?

Maybe it could explain, why she is so blind to Rumple’s evilness. Could simple say, love makes blind, but somehow I prefer to see love as a positive aspect of life, improving and extending our selves and not diminishing them. I am losing more and more any respect for the person Belle, although it does make her on the other hand more interesting and complex as a character than being the lovely, friendly, forgiving innocence she is seen as often. She’s reminding me by now somewhat of Eva Braun, the woman who adored and idealized Hitler. I am not saying with that, that Rumple is like Hitler, though IMO Rumple is the big bad of the show, just saying that Belle is either naive or willing to overlook what Rumple is doing, people wondered the same about Eva Braun. How can someone be in love with a person making so many other people suffer and exploite people for his own purposes and convictions? I found it intriguing when Belle said, that she loves even the dark sides of Rumple. But that means she is not the nice, friendly, openminded, innocent person many want to see in her, she has her own dark side. Well, power can be attractive.

The real test for Belle’s love will come, when Rumple loses his power, stops to be the Dark One, if that ever will happen. Can Belle love a simple man, the vulnerable, fearful guy who is plagued by feeling inadequate and at the mercy of others or fate as much as she loves the charming, witty but reckless and ruthless powerful magician with a soft side? She might believe she would, but would she? Or would she react alike Milah did and find him abhorrent?

Was it just an adventurous streak and goodness (the will to sacrifce herself for the many) that drove her to offer herself as prize for Rumple for stopping the Ogres attacking her people? And was it goodness or as much curiosity and attraction to danger and power which then made her stay with Rumple and fall for him?

I dislike Belle as a person, she has double standards and doesn’t even seem to care the least bit anymore to see things from a different perspective than Rumple’s. She’s blinded by love. Now that could be because she is just naive, the typcial female bookworm, lost in romance and theory but having no clue and even less any sense for the hard realities of real life, she lives in some pink soap bubble – but that wouldn’t be much flattering, would it. The other option I see is that she is willing to overlook that Rumple has a destructive and for others very harmful dark side, maybe even is okay with it. Belle said, she loves his dark side, so sound to me more at the moment that it’s the latter. Belle is sure not responsible for anything that Rumple did before they met, neither responsible for what he is doing, but she is responsible for her own doings.

So what will Belle do, when learning Rumple trusted her only with a fake dagger, lied to her and others, killed a person who at that moment was without means to defend herself (what Rumple did is wrong, he murdered Zelena, claiming to be judge and jury and executioner in one, taking revenge, which has nothing to do with doing justice, and he didn’t kill Zelena in defense to protect anyone, at that moment Zelena had not her power, was at best a potential threat, but that is true for pretty much everyone, we all can potentially harm people). Will she call him out for it? Or will she explain it away being all understanding, forgiving and in love?

I think it would be interesting to see Belle have a more Lacey-like reaction to finding out Rumple killed Zelena. The lies would definitely cause a massive argument between RumBelle but Zelena hasn’t done anything to garner sympathy from any of the other characters.

I’d like to see Belle stand by Rumple and it could also make Rumple realise that he has to change for the better, otherwise he’s going to drag Belle down into the darkness with him rather than her pulling him up out of the darkness.

Yes, that could be an interesting way to develop the story, the characters and the relationship of Rumple and Belle further. We had a hint of that in season 2, when Rumple noticed that he was pleased with Lacey, enjoying her, but on the other hand it meant that he had lost what else Belle was, and even more important, that Belle had pretty much lost herself.

It could be interesting to see more of Belle and without Rumple, in the past and/or present, but maybe should be careful, what we wish for, it might not be to the liking of all what we might get to see.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Author]

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