Belle

[midnight dreary]

@weedith wrote:

Give them a few sessions of couples counseling with Archie and they will be shopping for china patterns! 😀

weedith, I think I love you. 😆

If I'm not mistaken, Rumpel will be attending therapy sessions with Archie in episode 1×19, the same episode where we learn more about Bae.

[weedith]

@hjbau wrote:

I am sorry i will try and stay out of this thread.

I agree with Midnight Dreary on this one. We all know that you are not Rumple’s biggest fan 😉 but an unchallenged love-fest doesn’t always make for the most interesting discussions. As long as we can all stay friendly, the different opinions make for a more lively conversation.

[weedith]

@Midnight Dreary wrote:

@weedith wrote:

Give them a few sessions of couples counseling with Archie and they will be shopping for china patterns! 😀

weedith, I think I love you. 😆

If I'm not mistaken, Rumpel will be attending therapy sessions with Archie in episode 1×19, the same episode where we learn more about Bae.

I saw that at the Paleyfest panel and I CAN'T WAAAAIIIITTTTT!!!!!!!

[hjbau]

I just don’t want anyone to be upset because i don’t like Rumpel. And really it isn’t that i hate the character. I just don’t think that he is good. I think he is a good villain, I was so happy when he followed Regina into the hall at the end of the last episode and i knew that they were going to speak to each other. I think that was the first time they have spoken since Regina forced Rumpel to come out and say he knows who he is. I just don’t think that he is good or even that he is doing evil things for good in the long run.

And it does make me crazy to see Belle in an abusive relationship. I just know if it was a real person and they told me that their boyfriend did that to them i would tell them to stay the crap away from them. And it is hard for me to get past that realistic reaction to this is supposed to be Beauty and the Beast so this means they will get a happily ever after. I kind of hope that they don’t. I like him as a character, but not as a human being.

[midnight dreary]

It’s ok, hjbau. I completely understand. I hope you continue to chat with us. 😀

I also understand the human vs. character conflict. As viewers, we tend to throw out human values and standards and immerse ourselves into the world of make-believe. It becomes more and more difficult to tell right from wrong.

[Phee]

@Midnight Dreary wrote:

As viewers, we tend to throw out human values and standards and immerse ourselves into the world of make-believe.

Totally. In real life, I wouldn’t have been all “Awwww, how romantic” if I knew someone who was sneaking around behind his wife to have romantic picnics in the woods with his mistress. But though I was a tad conflicted when I saw it on the show, ultimately, “Those two crazy kids are so meant to be,” won out in my mind, because we’re not dealing with the real world here.

I can see where the Stockholm Syndrome folks get their dislike of Rumbelle. Personally, I see their relationship differently.

I see them less as prisoner and captor and more as equals. She wasn’t afraid to challenge him and believed in him from the beginning, despite his appearance. She saw through the Dark One persona to the good man within and wanted to help him find his way back.

Of course, if you’re someone who’s never seen goodness in Rumple, then you won’t be able to interpret their story like that.

[hjbau]

The thing is that Belle thought she was a captive. She thought about it. Once he let her go she was going to run. She wasn’t going to come back. It was only once she met the Queen and the Queen told her to go back and break the curse that she decided to go back.

[killianhookfan]

hjbau – I think Robert Carlyle actually addressed your issue with Rumple and Belle in one of his Twitter sessions. Someone asked him why he used Snow and Charming’s hair for the love potion but said something like “What? Didn’t Belle leave a hair brush laying around?” His response was something like “That’s why he fired her. The love potion was a very big moment.” I took away from that very short and kind of kind of kryptic tweet that he was saying that Rumple recognized that he was NOT good for Belle because of what the curse had done to him so even though he may have loved her he needed to make her leave and use the hair of a love that that is pure.

I think if we keep in mind what Disney did with their Beauty and the Beast story when it first came out – they changed from having the female character be the pretty girl who was waiting to be rescued by her prince and made her a strong intelligent woman who motivated the flawed male character to want to change for HER. If you think about it in that context I think they are doing exactly the same thing with Belle and Rumple in OUaT – only our flawed male character also appears in every other fairy tale we see on the show so we see just how incredibly flawed he really is. It’s a totally different story when the curse doesn’t just turn the prince into a big giant teddy bear with fangs who doesn’t know how to use the proper dining utensils.

And Kitsis and Horowitz have addressed how morally complicated they have made the show – they WANT people to be bothered that David is having an affair with MM – but wait a minute, he really ISN’T having an affair with MM because MM is REALLY his wife. They have said the same with the villians – they have created villians that aren’t entirely evil because they wanted to show WHY they became evil and they are showing the dark side of characters we have always believed to be only good – like Snow White.

[lissy]

They have said the same with the villains – they have created villains that aren’t entirely evil because they wanted to show WHY they became evil

You just basically summed up why I watch this show rumplegoldfan! Nothing is simply black and white. The character’s complicated history allows you to become deeply attached to them and form your own personal opinion on the multi layered situation. It’s like when I’m watching Skin Deep with these lovey eyes, then all of a sudden I remember how Rumpel kind of blew up a fairy (and other evil what not) and I think This cannot be right!…But I wish it was because there just sooo sweet together, maybe he’s changed!…or Belle’s in danger…. The story lines make everything more interesting and heart-wrenching. If you begin to through in your own morals and feelings for characters, you know it’s an amazing show worth analyzing/watching 😉

[weedith]

Isn’t it interesting how each person has a different level of being able to suspend disbelief and/or put themselves into the world of the show. For myself, where I really like both Snow and Mary Margaret, and I want her to be happy, I find James to be arrogant and kind of insufferable (“none has had my fearless bravery…” *gag*), and David to be a spineless jellyfish. If a real life friend was dating either one of those guys (not to mention HE’S MARRIED!!!) I would constantly be telling her that she could do better.

At the same time, if I knew someone who was in love with a guy who remorselessly tricked and manipulated people into trading away THEIR CHILDREN, I would probably be having a few interventions there as well.

As it is, I fell hook, line and sinker for Rum/Belle. In real life I am married to the most straight-laced nerd you can imagine. But on screen I can go all swoony for the tormented soul villain whose icy heart is melted by the non-judgmental love of a brave and pure young girl. Even on screen I do cringe at relationships that are downright abusive (locking in dungeons, shoving around and screaming in her face, etc.), but I don’t get queasy at the Stockholm syndrome because, as others commented above, it just doesn’t come across as a hostage situation, even though I guess technically it is. After all, Belle volunteered. And a theme that has been developed in some fanfic is that Belle was kind of a hostage in her life already. She was engaged to a man who she admittedly “never cared much for,” and who, in their short scene together, didn’t show much respect for her. I was bothered by how Gaston shoved her behind him. It didn’t seem so much chivalrous as possessive. In some ways, Belle seizing the opportunity to be heroic was sort of empowering.

In any case, I give HUGE kudos to Eddie and Adam and their crew for creating characters that inspire this kind of discussion. I love that they are “layered” and morally ambiguous. Much more interesting than your average good guy vs. bad guy t.v. fare!!

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