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Yeah. Rumple knew of the risk but Hades hadn’t quite worked it out yet at that point. He may not have realized the contract could be enforced, but he knew Belle was pregnant…and the way he tried to gather up the shards of the ball, I think he realized that Hades could work it out, too.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
While I certainly see a case to be made that spinner Rumple really jumped at the chance to get the power of the dagger, he didn’t want power for power’s sake. That was the entire point of “Desperate Souls”; he wanted the power precisely because he wanted to use the power to save Baelfire. The trouble is, once Rumple got a taste of that power, it started to consume him. This is an illustration of the old adage “absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
Yes this is true. But I think this is where @nevermore point of control often comes into play: it’s not control in the corrupt way, per se, but rather control over his own life and future. As a peasant and incredibly poor Rumple had no control over his life, or even his death. The Duke could send him (and his child) out to die at a moments notice and there was no way to better his life unless he took the power himself. So while I agree that “power for the sake of power” isn’t Rumple’s story, there is a measure of desperate need for control that does run through him and if we really want to get into this, it’s what @ouatrandothoughts said in the fav/least fav thread, it stems from his abandonment.
I guess the other question this comes down to (besides the one you stated about Belle) is: what does Rumple think his life will be like if he gives up that power and control that the dagger give him? It’s like a safety blanket in many ways. That dagger assures him that his life and destiny are his to command, not someone (or fate) else’s. And maybe that’s his true fear (which is a pretty human one if the show would develop it and explore it in a meaningful way) but instead of being able to communicate that to Belle he makes it out that he’s simply hungry for power.
There’s a impotence theme running through this episode–not exactly sexual impotence (though Hades’s frozen heart and the reaction Greg Germann gave on the bike certainly speaks to that) but the inability to have control over anything: Charmings being unable to leave the UW and communicate to their son, Hades’s frozen heart, Rumple’s fear of what the loss of power means; Zelena unable to do magic when she needs.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"^^
Exactly. I’d say there’s an interplay between potency/fertility in a very broad sense. Consider, for example, Hades’ statement that “nothing grows here” alongside Rumple’s genuine surprise/awe when he tells Belle “It happened.” This seems to have a lot to do with infertility as the lack of capacity to nurture new life: Charmings not being there for Neal, Rumple potentially not being able to beget and subsequently protect his child; Hades — a god, and hence literally a creature capable of poiesis, or world-making — incapable of engendering a world that can self-regenerate, and isn’t doomed to only decay.
I loved Belle and Rumple’s scene in this episode. Honestly, I didn’t expect Rumple to say the things he said, and I didn’t expect to like what he said.
What he said is definitely controversial, Belle loving him for the beast as well as the man, but there was something that wasn’t said that made me feel good about Rumple’s character development.
While the focus was on why Belle fell in love with Rumple (Rumple accused her of liking the beast, even loving the beast) Rumple’s reasons for falling in love with Belle were never mentioned.
Rumple loves Belle because she isn’t afraid of the beast, and because she’s proven to be able to tame the beast. Rumple believes he’s a better person with Belle in his life, and in his mind, he thinks she keeps the beast in check, which encourages Rumple to use his power more responsibly.
Rumple wants power, but he needs Belle for him to use that power the right way, and he knows it. He knows he can be a hero. I think at this point, he wants to be a hero, but he can’t be trusted with the DO power without Belle there to guide him.
If the Dark One absolutely must exist and there’s no way to break the curse, at this point if we were voting, we would all WANT the DO to be Rumple. He seems to be the best at it, and I think there’s even hope for him to begin using his power for good rather than evil. But he thinks he needs Belle to be good.
I think at this point, he wants to be a hero, but he can’t be trusted with the DO power without Belle there to guide him.
Does he though? He was a hero. He was hat-sucked, heroized, sword pulling, pure hearted, and still went back to the lure of the Dark Power. This is the problem, right? He can’t resist constantly taking more and more power.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"OK. I am listening to the Once Podcast, and I must add my thoughts to this. RG claims that it isn’t true that one can’t exist without the other (man and beast) but this is the truest statement that has ever been said!
“power corrupts” is a very famous american motto. “power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”
there is no such thing as “dark” power and there is no such thing as “light” power. there is only power.
(saying that “Dark One” power is pure evil and that it can’t be used for good because it’s supposed to be evil, is like saying that anyone who speaks parseltongue must be as evil as the dark lord because it is a dark power) why is it a “muddy nasty message” to wield dark magic for good?? just because some self-righteous blue fairy said that it “doesn’t belong” and it’s dark etc.?
things that were said in the podcast: “rumple keeps calling it power but it is evil”, “the way he is using it is evil” they keep saying that he “kills peasants” “as it includes deceit murder kidnapping babies for potentially nefarious reasons” – Keb I must say that even tough he has killed exactly two peasants (the snail guy – was he even a peasant? and their maid Honora) he rarely used the power for evil! when did he ever kidnap babies? now he gets to pay for Zelena’s crimes too? deceit? the only time he ever lied was when he lied to Belle about the dagger. (I will not even get into the psyche behind the fear that Belle won’t trust him unless she had the dagger because in neverland Neal didn’t trust Rumple because he couldn’t give him the dagger or that *giving* the dagger to ANYONE would scare the heck out of Rumple after the trauma of 3B)
on the contrary, this dagger is more a symbol of heroism than it is anything else:
1) he used the dagger to save his son +1000 children from the Ogres War
2) he used the dagger to cut off his shadow so he could save Henry with the full knowledge that he will have to die in the process (very painful as affirmed by Felix)
3) he used the dagger (when he had no magic) as the only way to save the town from Pan and actually die in the process.
4) he let go of the dagger knowing full well that he will be slave to a sadistic person with an agenda against him
5) he pulled Excalibur from the rock
now we can list how the dagger symbolizes struggles and sufferings
1) he was caged and was treated like a puppet
2) for many many lonely years with no love and no light he fought the darkness for his child’s sake. and instead of dominating the world he lived alone in darkness and isolation
3) he never fully became The Dark One (as affirmed in Neverland with Vision!Belle)
3) tried really hard to give his dagger to his wife even though being controlled scared the wits out of him.
4) he tried to prevent dying and becoming a dangerous dark-one and when he failed he gave Belle the dagger and sent her away with another man.
BUT, I just have to put it out there: “i love this dagger” was the only line that gave me the creeps. how can a man love the object that enslaved him and hurt him the way Zelena did in season 3?
RG claims that it isn’t true that one can’t exist without the other (man and beast) but this is the truest statement that has ever been said!
RG claimed no such thing; RG questioned it. Rumple claims that the beast and the man cannot exist without one another.
there is no such thing as “dark” power and there is no such thing as “light” power. there is only power.
Not on this show. Not the way they’ve set it up over the past arc.
(the snail guy – was he even a peasant? and their maid Honora)
Does it honestly matter if they were or were not peasants? Murder is murder no matter the social position.
on the contrary, this dagger is more a symbol of heroism than it is anything else:
He also used the dagger to kill soldiers
5) he pulled Excalibur from the rock
Which had nothing to do with the dagger. He didn’t use the dagger or was even in possession of the dagger when he did this. Excalibur represented the light; the dagger represented the darkness. You need both for a story, for a person. That’s the point of making them connected.
3) tried really hard to give his dagger to his wife even though being controlled scared the wits out of him.
No he didn’t. He created a fake one to give to her so he wouldn’t have to give up the dagger
4) he tried to prevent dying and becoming a dangerous dark-one and when he failed he gave Belle the dagger and sent her away with another man.
He just tried to prevent himself from dying. Nothing about not becoming a dangerous dark-one. He is a dangerous dark one. Just being the dark one means being dangerous because the power is there to tap into.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I really liked what Belle had to say in the most recent sneak peek for 5×17. She basically said all the things I’ve been wanting her to say. She’s not just going to let Rumple get away with using whatever dark tactics he feels he must in the heat of the moment. I love that she rejected his point that darkness is just a matter of perspective. She isn’t the moral relativist that Rumple is. She basically said they were going to do it her way (i.e. a way which involves using the darkness only for good).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
No, it does not matter if they were peasants or not. Murder is murder. However, the statement “he has to stop killing peasants” sounds like he kills peasants every month or something, while in reality, he HAS killed some innocent people centuries ago, and hasn’t done it since.
“he used the dagger to kill soldiers” snow and charming killed countless soldiers on screen. so did many heroes on this show. Does it matter what dagger or sword they used? This whole “heroes don’t kill” is one big joke on this show. He used the dagger to kill the dangerous kidnappers who sacrificed children to the Ogres.
Excalibur has everything to do with the dagger. It was refused with the dagger before he pulled it out of the rock. You said it. You need both, or rather, you have to have both: you can’t have one without the other. Just because the blue fairy possesses “light” magic, doesn’t mean she isn’t bad or won’t use it for bad puposes.
No, the dark one does not necessarily mean dangerous. A zombie!DarkOne would be dangerous. And that’s what he warned Regina about and that’s what he wanted to protect Belle from when he gave her the dagger before he collapsed and told her to go with Will. He DID try to give his wife the dagger. He tried very hard. He stopped trying after that story with the snow queen.
No, it does not matter if they were peasants or not. Murder is murder. However, the statement “he has to stop killing peasants” sounds like he kills peasants every month or something, while in reality, he HAS killed some innocent people centuries ago, and hasn’t done it since.
We were being humerous because we always joke about peasant killing, be it Rumple, Regina or Hook.
“he used the dagger to kill soldiers” snow and charming killed countless soldiers on screen. so did many heroes on this show.
Actually they haven’t. We rarely see war conflict leading to death from Snow and Charming. Even the “take back the kingdom” story was dramatically reduced to a small handful of episodes in which veryittle, if any, murder was done. This is not say nothing of the very tricky topic of war vs premeditated murder and acceptability (not something I’m sure I personally buy, but something that is far less white and black)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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