Better, But Not Different

[RumplesGirl]

Excalibur has everything to do with the dagger. It was refused with the dagger before he pulled it out of the rock.

No it wasn’t

https://youtu.be/pDqqPg_BM2k

And in the end, he chooses the side that represents darkness, not both ends. Just the one

[nevermore]

Haven’t quite finished listening to the episode — btw @RG, I really enjoy your contributions to the discussion — but I think @Marty’s onto something with the power thing.

I’ve posted many times at this point that OUAT has some pretty weird messages on power/gender/class which might be subtle social commentary, or might be straight forward classist ideology. I can’t tell anymore. Anyway, I think the question of “why is power evil?” is a legitimate one.

There is a theme in OUAT about dark magic vs light magic, and the nature of magic more generally as something that can be tinged with a particular emotion and intent (and thus acquires a certain quality). Magic itself is a kind of element of nature — it even seems to obey some sort of Newtonian conservation law, since you can’t destroy it, only transform it — but the question then becomes whether DO magic is the same thing as Dark Magic (in its extreme manifestation), or whether it is a qualitatively different thing.

Because if it is the same thing, then it can be whitewashed. And if it’s not, but still obeys Newtonian physics, then it can presumably still be transformed?

Anyway, this isn’t precisely a discussion on Rumple, but I think OUAT’s magic system does affect the possible outcomes and trajectories for the character. If only it were consistent…

[RumplesGirl]

I don’t think power is evil or a bad thing or that magic is evil or a bad thing. The problem, which @nevermore hits on at the end up thread, is that it’s wholly inconsistent year to year. I tired to point this out to Jeremy in the podcast on Wednesday, but we’ve seen Rumple use his DO magic for good–like helping Henry, curing ills, ect–as well as nefarious, self-righteous, and selfish purposes. But the show flits back and forth on whether magic is simply MAGIC and who wields it and for what purpose determines if it’s light or dark AND the idea that the DO power is simply evil. As the show stands right now, canon wise, it seems to be emphasizing the latter and forgetting the former. (though, the second sneak peek for 5×17 finds them flitting back to the idea that Rumple can use magic, but Belle puts the kaput on it being dark magic

But to bring this topic back round to Rumple…he doesn’t seem to be able (thus far) to stay away from taking the easy way out…when he needs, he uses Dark Magic, to heck with the results. He’s not above lying, manipulating, and working an angle if he feels the ends justify the means. and now we’re back to the current new peek, in which he tries to sell moral relativism to Belle

The darkness is too tempting (case in point: giving up his hero status to magically take back the DO powers after being rid of them and having his heart cleansed) and it seems highly unlikely that he’ll ever be able to stay away from “the sauce” for good.

btw @RG, I really enjoy your contributions to the discussion

thanks!

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thedarkonedearie]

I also enjoy your voice in the discussions.  I think the three of you play off each other quite well, although I haven’t heard the bloopers haha.

[RumplesGirl]

I also enjoy your voice in the discussions. I think the three of you play off each other quite well, although I haven’t heard the bloopers haha.

Quote

Thanks! And you could hear the (unbelievably) hilarious bloopers if you were a hero! (wink wink) (or…listen live…)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[thedarkonedearie]

Thanks! And you could hear the (unbelievably) hilarious bloopers if you were a hero! (wink wink) (or…listen live…)

I suppose I should get on that.

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