Can You Deny A Villain Their "Rights"?

[TheWatcher]

TheWatcher wrote: Sorry by subjects, I just meant the creatures in her kingdom. We don’t know what she has been using Dark Magic for. But I assume it was for deals

1) Are the creatures sentient? As sentient as the merfolk? And you ASSUME for deals. Well, I’m not going to touch that. lol. You assume but you don’t know! Maybe I assume that she using dark magics to conjure up fish demons to attack Triton!

TheWatcher wrote: Even if her deals are sour, she is the Queen. She makes the laws and they obey them

Alright, Hobbes. (no seriously, go read John Locke because what you’re talking about sounds very Divine Right of Kings and absolute monarchy)

They are sentient beings (its Disney of course :P) But the creatures on land are sentient and Eric is sailor. Remember Sebastians disgust when he came into Chef Louis kitchen:

So if she cant eat them, the humans cant either.

And yes, I assume deals. Judging from what we know about her both the tv series and movie, plus the show and other media, deals seems to be the thing. Also, she’s the queen, They don’t like it they’ve got three options :1. accept it 2. Leave and go to Tritons part of the water OR 3. Kill her.

hmm.. I think my evil is showing :3

[PriceofMagic]

slurpeez108 wrote:

But as Rumple himself told Regina in S1, “intent is meaningless.” What counts are words, details, the fine points of a deal, contracts. Etc… He still made an immoral deal for self gain, whether he really cared about the acquisition of the baby or not.

So is Rumple’s intent over the course of 300 years to find his son meaningless? Because Regina counters that intention is everything. Something Rumple knows full well given that everything he has done was in the name of finding his child. Something his apologists (like myself) are quick to point out when his detractors go against him.

I think Rumple acknowledges some of his actions over 300 years have been morally questionable and he’s not going to hand wave and justify them by saying they were all committed in the name of finding Bae. Rumple thinks himself a monster because of things he has done. Contrast this to Regina who has taken no responsibility for her own actions and just blamed Snow for everything she did.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[Slurpeez]

So is Rumple’s intent over the course of 300 years to find his son meaningless? Because Regina counters that intention is everything. Something Rumple knows full well given that everything he has done was in the name of finding his child. Something his apologists (like myself) are quick to point out when his detractors go against him.

I think you know where I really stand on this. I love Rumple, I love Neal, and I want them to be reunited, happy, and one big family. Yet, as the saying goes, the path to he!! is paved with good intentions. Rumple sacrificed an entire world for another in an effort to find his son and tell him he loved him. Do the ends justify the means? Does one parent’s loss justify an entire race of people losing their families and children?

And Neal’s reaction so far? To express his hurt, anger, and fear that Rumple will kill his son. Neal was a victim of both of his father’s curses: his dark one curse and the dark curse. I know we’re actually pretty much agreed on this point, since you also love both characters. I’m just throwing these questions out there purely for the sake of philosophical discussion.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

Also, she’s the queen, They don’t like it they’ve got three options :1. accept it 2. Leave and go to Tritons part of the water OR 3. Kill her.

So absolute totalitarian monarchy is ok? According to John Locke, the people who govern get their rights from those they govern. It’s also one of the basic principles here in ‘Merica (no surprise). Those who govern have an obligation to protect their citizens and see that their rights aren’t infringed. If she’s eating them that’s an infigment. I’m going to stay out of the moral implications of US eating animals because I do think it’s different in that they aren’t part of the government. Cows don’t vote, for instance. These are equally sentient creatures.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[RumplesGirl]

I think you know where I really stand on this. I love Rumple, I love Neal, and I want them to be reunited, happy, and one big family. Yet, as the saying goes, the path to he!! is paved with good intentions. Rumple sacrificed an entire world for another in an effort to find his son and tell him he loved him. Do the ends justify the means? Does one parent’s loss justify an entire race of people losing their families and children?

I know. *hugs* Just keeping the argument going.

And Neal’s reaction so far? To express his hurt, anger, and fear that Rumple will kill his son. Neal was a victim of both of his father’s curses: his dark one curse and the dark curse. I know we’re actually pretty much agree on this point, since you also love both characters. I’m just throwing out these ideas purely for the sake of philosophical discussion.

Ditto. (love those Stiltskin men)

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[PriceofMagic]

Every time I see the name John Locke I think of Lost.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

[TheWatcher]

Just imagine a FTL court. Who would be the Judge? Who would be the lawyers? Who would be the Jury? Imagine the cases Cinderella vs Rumplestiltskin
Regina vs Snow White
Regina vs Belle
Snow White vs Rumplestiltskin
Maurice vs Rumplestiltskin
Gepetto vs Jiminy Cricket
Jiminy Cricket vs Rumplestiltskin
Blue Fairy vs Rumplestiltskin
Baelfire vs Rumplestiltskin
Tinkerbell vs Blue Fairy
The Enchanted Forest vs Regina Good job Rumple has legal knowledge in Storybrooke because he would’ve been in FTL court a lot.

If I were the judge:

Cinderella vs Rumplestiltskin: Rumpel wins, Cinderella must give up her child. She shouldn’t sign things she doesn’t read first v.v
Regina vs Snow White: Snow White wins for obvious reasons.

Regina vs Belle: Belle Wins. Regina is sentenced to be locked in an asylum for 28 years
Snow White vs Rumplestiltskin: Depends. What is the case in particular?
 Gepetto vs Jiminy Cricket: Jiminy wins. He shouldn’t be guilty for what his parents did.
Blue Fairy vs Rumplestiltskin: Blue wins. Rumpel is at fault for losing Bae. Unless she was being sneaky >>
Baelfire vs Rumplestiltskin: Bae wins
Tinkerbell vs Blue Fairy: Blue wins. Tinkerbell was breaking all the rules multiple times, and needed to be punished.

 

 

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[TheWatcher]

TheWatcher wrote: Also, she’s the queen, They don’t like it they’ve got three options :1. accept it 2. Leave and go to Tritons part of the water OR 3. Kill her.

So absolute totalitarian monarchy is ok? According to John Locke, the people who govern get their rights from those they govern. It’s also one of the basic principles here in ‘Merica (no surprise). Those who govern have an obligation to protect their citizens and see that their rights aren’t infringed. If she’s eating them that’s an infigment. I’m going to stay out of the moral implications of US eating animals because I do think it’s different in that they aren’t part of the government. Cows don’t vote, for instance. These are equally sentient creatures.

But she wasn’t eating the MERPEOPLE She ate the fishies, the clams, the sharks. I know that Eric’s dog couldn’t speak from what we saw, but as a sailor prince, he eats tons of seafood. Sentient seafood that was once alive and talking. So is that evil on his part?

"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGIC

[Slurpeez]

But she wasn’t eating the MERPEOPLE She ate the fishies, the clams, the sharks. I know that Eric’s dog couldn’t speak from what we saw, but as a sailor prince, he eats tons of seafood. Sentient seafood that was once alive and talking. So is that evil on his part?

Hehe, where do we draw the line between animated Disney cartoon canon, FTL laws from “Once” and reality? This conversation just took an amazing turn. I’ve always wondered why Pluto, a dog, couldn’t speak, and yet Goofy, also a dog, could. 🙂

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[RumplesGirl]

Just imagine a FTL court. Who would be the Judge? Who would be the lawyers? Who would be the Jury? Imagine the cases Cinderella vs Rumplestiltskin
Regina vs Snow White
Regina vs Belle
Snow White vs Rumplestiltskin
Maurice vs Rumplestiltskin
Gepetto vs Jiminy Cricket
Jiminy Cricket vs Rumplestiltskin
Blue Fairy vs Rumplestiltskin
Baelfire vs Rumplestiltskin
Tinkerbell vs Blue Fairy
The Enchanted Forest vs Regina Good job Rumple has legal knowledge in Storybrooke because he would’ve been in FTL court a lot.

If I were judge

1) Rumple wins. Ella never should have signed the contract without reading.

2) Snow wins. It’s her kingdom by succession and then by right of conquest when they beat Regina in battle.

3)Belle wins.

4)Rumple wins. Snow never would have met her true love if not for Rumple. Rumple has also helped Charming and Snow more than he ever hurt them. Snowing made that final decision to put baby Emma in the wardrobe. They could have kept her with them.

5) Rumple wins. Belle was a free agent and went with Rumple willingly.

6) Jiminy wins. The sins of the father should not be put upon the son

7) I’m not sure which case Jiminy vs Rumple would be

8)Rumple wins. Sneaky Fairy is Sneaky

9) The trial is overthrown because I will not choose between the Stiltskin men. Both are at fault for various things.

10) Tink wins. Sneaky Fariy is Sneaky

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

Posts