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Has Hook let go of the Captain Hook persona? Can he ever? And if he hasn’t, what does that mean for the future of his character?
It’s slowly slipping away. As I said earlier in this same thread, Hook is changing in a way that *I* personally don’t like. He isn’t the same guy he was before. I get he is evolving as a character, I guess >> but they should make him more interesting or just as interesting as he was before. But ofcourse, this is my opinion. Can he let go of his pirate persona? I think the better question is SHOULD he? This is Captain Hook we are talking about. I want to see that pirate rapscallion, not some sweater vest wearing business man (just using that as an example). Hook IS a pirate. He is one of the most well known pirates. They have already taken most of the pirate from his personality which was really what interested me in him in the first place. Now he doesn’t have a ship, is rarely effective in the story anymore, and I swear if he decided to have Emma magic his hand back, I will be very upset.
Here’s my question of contribution: What do you guys think will be in store for Hook (besides his relationship with Emma) in the coming season?
[adrotate group="5"]"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICI suspect Milah wouldn’t have thought much of Killian Jones and probably hero worshipped Hook a bit, which only served to encourage the character, and her death – and Hook’s new obsession with revenge, made the character completely take the place of Killian Jones.
Milah never knew him as “Hook” though–he didn’t lose his hand and need the hook until after she was dead. So she did know and fall in love with him as Killian Jones, but I get what you’re saying since he was definitely the post-Liam pirate version. I really don’t think he took on the worst characteristics of “Hook” per se until after she was dead, though. Was he arrogant and kind of a jerk when Milah first met him and when he challenged Rumple to a duel to get her back? Definitely. And he still was when he first encountered the newly empowered Dark One as well ten years later, but when he realized what was going on he just kinda “sucked it up” if you will and turned up to face Rumple, ready to die to protect Milah. From what I can tell/remember, I don’t think he did any of the really villainous stuff until after he lost his lover and his hand.
So to answer the question, I do think he’s let the worst of Hook go; that was made clear when he turned his ship around and came back at the end of S2, and was able to have Rumple on his ship and not try to kill him. It’s hard to say how much remains of the persona now, though. I don’t think he’ll ever drop it completely; that was who he was for hundreds of years. I think the first few episodes of the upcoming season will tell a lot: whether he still dresses the same, whether anyone still calls him Captain Hook or if he’s universally known as Killian, etc.
He also tends to live on the ends of the spectrum, and spend very little time in the middle and can be very black or white. He loses his brother – so he does a total 180 and becomes a pirate. He loses Milah and spends 300 years in search of revenge.
That’s a really good way to describe it, “the ends of the spectrum”. He doesn’t seem to be great with the whole concept of moderation! As for the other stuff, I’ll have to address that later because I’m getting tired…
Much like Dark One is to Rumplestilskin, and Evil Queen is to Regina, Captain Hook is to Killian. It’s something that will forever be a part of him, it’s just how he uses that persona now that defines him as either good or bad, and in my opinion…he is neither. Hook is an Anti-Hero…the guy who gets the job done whether it’s the right way or the wrong way, and it has it’s advantages and disadvantages, but being an Anti Hero is somewhat better than being fully Hero or fully Villain.
Killian Jones will be Killian Jones, but when it’s time to put on that pirate hat, then it’s time to put on the pirate hat and be Captain Hook. 😛
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
Much like Dark One is to Rumplestilskin, and Evil Queen is to Regina, Captain Hook is to Killian. It’s something that will forever be a part of him, it’s just how he uses that persona now that defines him as either good or bad, and in my opinion…he is neither. Hook is an Anti-Hero…the guy who gets the job done whether it’s the right way or the wrong way, and it has it’s advantages and disadvantages, but being an Anti Hero is somewhat better than being fully Hero or fully Villain. Killian Jones will be Killian Jones, but when it’s time to put on that pirate hat, then it’s time to put on the pirate hat and be Captain Hook.
Wonderfully said
"I could have the giant duck as my steed!" --Daniel Radcliffe
Keeper Of Tamara's Taser , Jafar's Staff, Kitsis’s Glasses , Ariel’s Tail, Dopey's Hat , Peter Pan’s Shadow, Outfit, & Pied Cloak,Red Queen's Castle, White Rabbit's Power To World Hop, Zelena's BroomStick, & ALL MAGICMuch like Dark One is to Rumplestilskin, and Evil Queen is to Regina, Captain Hook is to Killian. It’s something that will forever be a part of him, it’s just how he uses that persona now that defines him as either good or bad, and in my opinion…he is neither. Hook is an Anti-Hero…the guy who gets the job done whether it’s the right way or the wrong way, and it has it’s advantages and disadvantages, but being an Anti Hero is somewhat better than being fully Hero or fully Villain.
I agree. Rumple, Regina and Hook are all anti-heroes. Their darkness will always be a part of them, it’s how they decide to use that darkness without giving in to it that will be important.
Hook has changed over the course of the series. He still uses his pirate ways when he needs to but he uses it for good rather than evil.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix3) Hook often talks about living with “good form.” How does Hook define good form and do you agree with it? And has Hook lived by good form, do you think?
I wanted to talk about the whole “good form” concept, because I recently got around to reading the actual Peter Pan book and, I don’t know if this is/was common knowledge to everyone else, but Hook’s obsession with it comes straight from the book. In the book his last words are an accusation of “bad form!” directed at Pan, haha. One mention of it in the book though that I think particularly applies to OUAT Hook/Killian: “Good form! However much he may have degenerated, he still knew that this is all that really matters.” I think that bit carries over into the show…he mentions good form several times in a way that almost seems to justify the actions that others would most likely consider bad form (not to mention crimes), like commandeering a Navy ship and becoming a pirate.
Heck, maybe he decided it was “good form” to avenge a loved one’s murder, thereby justifying all of the questionable and/or awful things he did in an effort to kill Rumple. So I feel like when we first see Hook, he kind of twisted his definition of good form to suit his needs. But then I’d say that for most of season three he’s been trying to turn back around to maybe embracing a wider definition of good form since he wants to actually be a good person for Emma. Of course there was certainly some backsliding during the missing year, when he thought he’d never see her again, but in that episode we also see that he regrets those instances of “bad form”.
I wanted to talk about the whole “good form” concept, because I recently got around to reading the actual Peter Pan book and, I don’t know if this is/was common knowledge to everyone else, but Hook’s obsession with it comes straight from the book. In the book his last words are an accusation of “bad form!” directed at Pan, haha. One mention of it in the book though that I think particularly applies to OUAT Hook/Killian: “Good form! However much he may have degenerated, he still knew that this is all that really matters.” I think that bit carries over into the show…he mentions good form several times in a way that almost seems to justify the actions that others would most likely consider bad form (not to mention crimes), like commandeering a Navy ship and becoming a pirate.
Oh that’s interesting, I read that final ‘bad form’ as being directed at himself. Hook had just been having that inner discussion about whether he or Pan were good or bad form. And came to the conclusion he had bad form for wanting to have good form (he had concluded Pan had good form) So for Hook to want to be sent to the crocodile was a confirmation of his own bad form. (sorry, a bit confusing with all the ‘forms’)
To answer the other questions:
1/ Hook won’t ever completely lose the Hook persona. It’s a part of him and it’s also the part of him that survives. Even Pan was impressed by that trait. He’s a survivor, no matter what he’s been put through and even when he welcomed death it never came. He aligned himself with whoever would get him what he wanted, and also with whoever would help him survive – ie conversation before the beanstalk “you four are much safer company” So even though he is aligned with the good guys now, I wouldn’t be surprised if he perhaps did something a little shady in the future to survive or to save someone. So he may not be ‘evil’ anymore (and I’ll debate that he actually was evil) and is Hook-lite, but Cpt Jones is still a pirate and is a very different entity to Lt Jones and he’ll never completely revert to the doe-eyed innocent sailor.2/ I would say his fatal flaw is his quick temper. Deciding things and not thinking about the consequences. That is what seems to get him into trouble. Liam died, he didn’t process that very well. Instead of going to the admiralty (as he had planned to do with Liam) to call out the King’s cowardice, he decided to throw it all away and become a pirate. As you do. With the death of Milah it was all ‘Right, I’m going to kill this guy, I don’t care how long it takes, let’s go to another Land (without a way to get back!) so we can live forever and work it out’ As you do.
3/ Well, similar to the book I would say, he wants to have good form, saying things like ‘I’m always a gentleman’ to prove he has. But in wanting to have ‘good form’ proves that he doesn’t. He knows he’s done bad things and his conscience is really tripping him up on that lately – re sacrificing Eric for the JR. Where previously he would kill, shrug his shoulders and not care (ie, Claude ‘I didn’t recognise him without my hook in his neck) So perhaps he hasn’t always had good form (except when he was Lt Jones) but 3B is showing he is capable of it.
And there obviously are lines of good form/bad form for him. When he was trying to ‘win’ Emma’s heart, he said he believed in good form, ie, he wouldn’t cheat, play tricks etc. However when playing with Henry he’s got loaded dice in order to win. So when playing a game when the stakes aren’t high or it’s not very serious (they were only playing for chips) it’s perfectly fine to cheat, but when it comes down to serious matter, playing with people’s emotions and the like he obviously want to make a fair fight of it then. Hence me thinking that he can still be a little shady if he needs be.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
As I see it, Hook was/is not evil, he was deeply wounded and profoundly angry. Because he acted out defensively and violently against the personally tragic and hurtful happenings of his life does not make him evil, but it did make him somewhat dangerous, passionately tortured and constantly struggling to overcome his seething anger ( which he often drowned with numbing alcohol or barricaded behind cocky attitude)
His destructive anger I.E. selfish quest for revenge was a flaw, but not fatal because it did not ultimately destroy him. He was able to conquer that toxic, internal driving force.
His loyalty, rapscallion aura, witty snark, natural charm and indomitable Good-Form spirit is deeply imbedded in his essential character and when not plagued/diseased by anger and hurt, will always be “who” he is.
***Always in search of a good flock***
As I see it, Hook was/is not evil, he was deeply wounded and profoundly angry. Because he acted out defensively and violently against the personally tragic and hurtful happenings of his life does not make him evil, but it did make him somewhat dangerous, passionately tortured and constantly struggling to overcome his seething anger ( which he often drowned with numbing alcohol or barricaded behind cocky attitude)
Agreed! He is a man very much ruled by his heart.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
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