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I can’t decide if I think that wording taken from the script is legit…but I’m also not sold on this boat being the JR…it could also just be parts of the actual JR and they plan on taking away the tell tale JR accents like the yellow and blue paint.
[adrotate group="5"]My goodness I forgot how tricky those tags like to be! Sorry if people were spoiled and didn’t want to be while I was trying to get it to work…..!
“They go through the highs and lows of that addiction but at no point is it outright stated on the show that it is an addiction.
They could probably write Hook having an alcohol problem in the same way. They won’t throw the word “alcoholic” or “alcoholism” around but they’d plant the little signs there.”
Yup, which, is basically what I said (small grin). We are on the same page about A&E.
However, they DID write Hook that way already with a lot of little comments and mini-snarks about his fondness for rum. Subtle commentary, undetected by a lot of the more youthful and less jaded viewers of the show who are not interested in soap opera style drama. But the commentary has been there all the same. The edge of darkness is quite often very quietly but poignantly shown in the *eye emoting* of many of the main actors. Colin is particularly good at that. As is Carlyle.
Regarding the ship, we have no evidence of what ship is referenced in the well publicized bleed through page of the script. Regardless, a ship is being built and if it isn’t The Jolly Roger, which is highly possible, that doesn’t change my hope that they keep it in the storyline. It is a great opportunity for future adventures or past flashbacks. If they do it now, or later, (or nevah evah again for any Hook related reason) The Jolly Roger would be a wonderful setting. And I am not sorry at all (grin).
***Always in search of a good flock***
1) Has Hook let go of the Captain Hook persona? Can he ever? And if he hasn’t, what does that mean for the future of his character?
Tough question… IMO, to answer that question a meaningful way (ie. Without shipping goggles of any kind- be they pro or anti), would require that there be a universal definition of what exactly defines ‘Captain Hook’s’ persona on Once- ie. How much of ‘Killian’ is actually ‘Captian Hook’ & how much is the facade he assumes to fulfill the Captain Hook role.
The only reason I think this, is people seem to have very polarizing views on Hook, some seem to want him to simply be bad/evil no matter what & any action he takes out side of this is simply a villain biding his time- I guess for them, Killian will always be exactly the same person as Cpt Hook. For others Cpt Hook simply didnt exist Before Rumple murdered Milah & maimed Killian, he was a pirate sure, but he was Cpt Jone’s, Not Cpt Hook- so what makes Hook, Hook?However my personal opinion (without the basis of an accepted universal definition), is in the short term- Yes, Killian has let go of the Hook persona. However, he has Not let go of his pirate persona.
If he will ever truly be rid of his Hook persona long term, I think will be explored on show next season, as they’ve put him in a prime position (his budding romance with Emma) to do just that, but just as Killian has always maintained that Emma would make “One hell of a pirate” or ‘there’s a little pirate in her’, It’d come back too defining exactly what the Hook persona actually is- ie. is it his love/pride of his Hook, is it his single minded pursuit of vengeance against Rumple, his ability to murder… what actually defines Hook as being Hook? Killian was a pirate & doing some less than honorable deeds (bullying) before he was Hook, so Pirate doesnt cut the mustard to define Hook’s persona IMO.2) What is Hook’s fatal flaw?
I would have said selfishness for Hook, but I’m guessing you actually mean Killian’s fatal flaw? …. I’d have to say self-doubt. I think he struggles with a lack of confidence that who he really is at his core is enough- enough to keep him alive, good enough to be forgiven/be truly redeemed (he has to be really pushed for him to point out he is ‘helping’ others, yet is ready & willing to accept blame laid at his feet- even if he’d be justified in passing that blame off to others, or allowing others to think poorly of him, when he could set easily them straight- causing me many ‘banging my head against a brick wall- Just tell them Why!’ moments), good enough to be worthy of being loved again etc. vs who he has to be/has had to become in order to survive. I think that’s why he’s so ready to elevate Emma above himself & so surprised in the finale when she pointed out he was a hero too- that’s probably the 1st time in a couple of hundred years, that anyone has truly believed him to be & openly acknowledged him being anything close to whom he actually is at heart, instead of ‘just a pirate’.
3) Hook often talks about living with “good form.” How does Hook define good form and do you agree with it? And has Hook lived by good form, do you think?
Another really good question…. & one I wish with my whole being that Colin or A&E get asked at a Con, so we get an actual answer! (I may steal it & tweet it to Adam if I happen to be on twitter when he’s active, as I’d LOVE an answer to it).
Personally I think Hook defined it as the ‘ability to fight for what you want’ & ‘not using trickery’ ie. If you are going to duel with someone, that person HAS to have a weapon as well (otherwise it’s just murder), they have to know that it’s a fight (probably to the death), they have to have a ‘way out’ (either fight for it or leave) & they have to know who they are dueling with (he doesnt hide who or what he is- the notorious pirate, Capt Hook)- so in that respect, then yes I guess he lived by ‘good form’. But No, I dont exactly agree with that definition (if that really is his definition) of ‘good form’… I think Killian’s idea of good form would be a little different/detailed from Hook’s definition 😉Here’s my question of contribution: What do you guys think will be in store for Hook (besides his relationship with Emma) in the coming season?
Figuring out ‘who’ exactly Killian is now- is he Hook, is he a pirate, s he a Navy man, is he a hero, a villian or is he a mixture of some or all of those things now etc.
What does he want to do with himself if he doesnt have his ship- I cant see him liking the idea of being a ‘kept man’, but I guess he’ll simply fall into a ‘police officer’ roll maybe. I’d also like to see the comedy of him coming to terms with living in a modern house, with all the gadgets & gizmos we use nowadays, which we often take for granted as ‘normal’, esp with a teenager- I’d love a Henry teaching Killy how to play Xbox scene lol 😉
I REALLY want to see more of CaptainCobra (Killian & Henry) & the CaptainCharming bromance, I’d also like for Killian & Robin to bond- esp over going from a world where their skills are useful & allow them to ‘provide’ for their families, to now being in a world where in essence, their skills are pretty much useless- I mean Robin is good with a bow & knows how to fight- Killy is good with boats/ships & good with a sword & pistol, both are good at thieving & are obviously good leaders, since both have loyal follower’s/ crew’s. So where does that leave them in SB, what are their roles now.
IMO, FTL skills dont really translate into ‘real world’ skills very well if you dont have the benefit of 28yrs worth of false memories to rely on- ie. Drop a FTL healer, mason, carpenter or even ‘peasant/farmer’ into the real world & they will struggle to cope & survive, esp at 1st, with such a fast pace, specialist & tech heavy world, but drop a ‘real world’ doctor/surgeon, builder, carpenter or average joe-blog or lifestyle farmer into ‘typical-not post apocalyptic’ FTL & while it maybe a culture shock (mostly due to lack of indoor pluming lol) at 1st, they at the very least have if not useful advanced skills to rely on, then at the very least ‘revolutionary’ ideas (in door pluming for instance 😉 ), which they could rely on to more easily adjust to a slower paced, low tech life.Heck, maybe he decided it was “good form” to avenge a loved one’s murder, thereby justifying all of the questionable and/or awful things he did in an effort to kill Rumple. So I feel like when we first see Hook, he kind of twisted his definition of good form to suit his needs. But then I’d say that for most of season three he’s been trying to turn back around to maybe embracing a wider definition of good form since he wants to actually be a good person for Emma. Of course there was certainly some backsliding during the missing year, when he thought he’d never see her again, but in that episode we also see that he regrets those instances of “bad form”.
Agreed.
As I see it, Hook was/is not evil, he was deeply wounded and profoundly angry. Because he acted out defensively and violently against the personally tragic and hurtful happenings of his life does not make him evil, but it did make him somewhat dangerous, passionately tortured and constantly struggling to overcome his seething anger ( which he often drowned with numbing alcohol or barricaded behind cocky attitude)
His destructive anger I.E. selfish quest for revenge was a flaw, but not fatal because it did not ultimately destroy him. He was able to conquer that toxic, internal driving force.
His loyalty, rapscallion aura, witty snark, natural charm and indomitable Good-Form spirit is deeply imbedded in his essential character and when not plagued/diseased by anger and hurt, will always be “who” he is.
Hands Bo a *Hookie cookie for a great post*
I want Killian and Emma to be two completely separate individuals. The thing that I hate about Snowing is their co-dependency. So while Emma’s working on really breaking those walls down with everyone, I want to see Killian on his own path to become the person he feels has “good form” or get to a point where he actually feels he can be a “man of honor.” While, of course, kicking hiney with the others! I love their little group and they each bring their own strengths to it; so I hope that doesn’t fade in S4.
This, although I dont hate it in Snowing, because well, they are Snowing lol- If Emma & Killian are going to be a long term thing, then I really would rather not see them become Snowing 2.0
Thought I’d post this here since it’s Hook themed 🙂
Killian’s Lt to Pirate score:
http://ouatmusic.tumblr.com/post/90652900021/requested-by-two-lovely-anons-first-post-in-thisHands Bo a *Hookie cookie
In my best Carrie Bradshaw imitation: “Ooo, me likie Hookie cookies.”
Glad to see all your commentary, surayya! Always provokes thought and is much appreciated.
That suspension of disbelief thanggg that is present for all the characters that ONCE morphed from established fairy tales/literature is there in aces for Hook as well. I try to avoid preconceived concepts of who Captain Hook is suppose to be, because in this incarnation, Hook is what Colin makes him. Not so much a persona to turn off and on, but one to embrace and evolve with as life in this particular adventure, affects him. He IS Hook. Always will be from the moment he gained the actual hook and moniker.
I know many actors do a lot of researching while creating characters, and with such well-loved characters one has to be respectful as well as personally creative. The man he has created on the small screen is filled with complexity and emotions, some he wears very well and others torment him even as he gives in to them, temporarily.
His self-serving nature boils up from a very self-defensive trait. I think he shows himself as always being a man of certain honor and good form~ except when the anger gets a grip. Then he can trip, bigtime. The anger rationalizes the momentary slip from good form. He hasn’t been as angry lately, but if you aggressively challenge him or threaten someone he loves, methinks the fierce passion would give him no pause in doing what is necessary to vigorously respond.
Good Form doesn’t negate fierce passion, it tries very hard to live hand in (hook?) hand with it. I hope he never loses the soul of Hook. It made him the man he is now.
Oh, and present day Hook? to loosely quote Capt. James Lawrence…”Don’t Give Up the Ship!” He belongs on the sea, he deserves a life with/close to/involving it. Make it happen A&E, give him a commanding position attached to the sea. It IS a harbor in Maine (grin).
***Always in search of a good flock***
I know many actors do a lot of researching while creating characters, and with such well-loved characters one has to be respectful as well as personally creative. The man he has created on the small screen is filled with complexity and emotions, some he wears very well and others torment him even as he gives in to them, temporarily.
Agree 100%
His self-serving nature boils up from a very self-defensive trait. I think he shows himself as always being a man of certain honor and good form~ except when the anger gets a grip. Then he can trip, bigtime. The anger rationalizes the momentary slip from good form. He hasn’t been as angry lately, but if you aggressively challenge him or threaten someone he loves, methinks the fierce passion would give him no pause in doing what is necessary to vigorously respond.
Good Form doesn’t negate fierce passion, it tries very hard to live hand in (hook?) hand with it. I hope he never loses the soul of Hook. It made him the man he is now.
Again agreed.
give him a commanding position attached to the sea. It IS a harbor in Maine (grin).
It’s exactly this reason that I doubt he’ll get JR back (at least not anytime soon), unless they want to cut his role on show down dramatically- if he’s always out working on ship in the ocean, then he isnt available to run around SB with Emma & Co. Nor to be sent to whatever world that running around ends up sending them too 😉
Ie. There’s another show I watch where one of main characters lived & worked on a boat. It quickly became apparent he was spending way to much time on land in order to interact with the other main characters, to also be doing ‘boat stuff’, so he was given a bar to run instead (which has become the “Granny’s of that show), as he now has staff he can leave in charge of the place, he now has a plausible reason for being on screen interacting with the others all the time 😉I don’t think A&E necessarily shy away from exploring “heavy duty” problems on Once but they dress it up to keep it “family-friendly”. For example, Rumple and Regina’s relationship with magic is basically one of addiction. They go through the highs and lows of that addiction but at no point is it outright stated on the show that it is an addiction.
They could probably write Hook having an alcohol problem in the same way. They won’t throw the word “alcoholic” or “alcoholism” around but they’d plant the little signs there.
Making something “family friendly” is something different to me than what they are doing, showing on the show and displaying in interviews and on panels, especially A&E. They are playing things down, being all busy with their flashy toys while showing little sensitivity to sensitive issues. That is quite the opposite even IMO of what a family show should do. Not shy away but be clear about things without going into exploitive sensationalism and gruesome pictures. The show is mostly sadly as worse as some exploitive ones like GoT, just representing the opposite side of ignorance with being all playful and trite.
People don’t need to be physically addicted to abuse a substance – sadly common misunderstanding. There are different stages of addiction: Experimentation, regular use, abuse/risky behavior, dependency. In other words, particular if it comes to alcohol a lot more people have problems with it than most of us notice or acknowledge. I am not sure what they are doing though with Hook here. Is it for jokes, the pirate trope (they drink rum don’t they) or as character issue – I am not sure. It could make sense, that he began getting lost in alcohol at times to numb the pain of losing Milah, and it became a habit to hit the bottle once in a while, as much as taking a sip has become a ritual of reassurance, that he is a pirate and doesn’t care much anyway. To me there are not little signs, Hook is abusing alcohol – but I am not so sure if the writers actually share that view.
¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
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