Characters dying.

[marilou]

myril thank you, you took my poor knowledge of the english language and translated it into exactly what I meant. 😀

[oncewatcher]

@myril wrote:

Has anyone here heard the term “Redshirt”? ….

This is a wonderful post (on page 1). Myril is exactly right. I know what a redshirt is. Once Upon A Time is full of them. I still hope Hook isn’t one. Nobody likes to be teased; putting a juicy steak under someone’s nose, and then ripping it away when they want to take a bite. They’ve barely done anything with Hook yet and as for me, I don’t like being pulled around by a ring in my nose. With the reception he’s received (especially in social media), killing him off won’t just take a way from the story. It’ll take away from the viewers. To ignore that, would be boorish.

To Myril: Glad to see someone else here appreciates Star Trek. Live long, and prosper.

[Myril]

@Marilou wrote:

myril thank you, you took my poor knowledge of the english language and translated it into exactly what I meant. 😀

Poor knowledge of English, you? No! I merely enjoyed to take you on a tour into my mind to express in many words what could have been said in one short sentence: I mostly agree with you.

Oncewatcher: Live long and prosper!
And I see your point,

I’m not sure yet about what they’re going to do with Hook. We’re not even sure that there will be a next season, are we (seeing the ratings it would be stupid if not, but still)? Wouldn’t say they’ve barely done anything with him yet, but I agree, there is more to the character, and we will see more of him. After all, he just got only one step closer to his big goal. Can even imagine storylines going beyond this, but not sure if they are any good. Think the producers and writers are aware of the reception, and I trust them as much, that it won’t be any easy thing for them to kill him, if they will do it. But I see it from a different point of view: If Hook in some way gets what he is seeking, it will take a very good reason and good story to keep him around – and sorry to all Captain Sawn fans, a love story with Emma is not a good enough reason to keep him in the show IMO, he is no lapdog. If they can think of a good story, he will stay, but otherwise, Hook is a character who certainly deserves a big exit, death or disappearance, whatever. Same goes for Cora. Both are not Redshirts, but they aren’t central main characters either.

For a show like OUaT to work you need always good adversaries. As I said, they want us to get invested emotionally with the characters, and with the bad guys you have the problem, that you have to keep them being good at being bad. But if a character is around longer you have to deepen their character, to stay interesting, and hen pay the price, that they will become more sympathetic and thus eventually less evil. So shows running longer come up with new villains once in a while. Look at Star Trek’s long history and the change of villains there. They had to come up with new ones not just because of different generations of Starfleet officers and exploring more of the universe – it was necessary because the bad guys became more and more sympathetic the longer they were around (and Klingons even made it on the bridge!). If that happens, you have to find good stories for them to stay – or you have to kill them (it’s the best option, proper end of their story line, no confusion), while building up a new villain. Remember the awful development of the Borg on Star Trek Next Generation, best example for how not to do it (although later in the movie and then Voyager they managed to make the Borg well working bad guys again).

Before anyone worries, nope, I’m not pleading for killing the Evil Queen or Rumple, they’re far too rich characters to be done with them any time soon. Besides, they are main cast, central to the overall storyline of the show.

You have to come up with good stories for the good guys too, don’t get me wrong here – but often most of the main cast are good guys, so they’re more likely last on the death list of writers. Just being succesfull fighting the bad guys is not enough for a long running show though either. It’s all about character development, findind interesting stories.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[thebee]

I’d like to see Hook become a part of the central cast. If the writers need help figuring out how to keep Hook on the show, reading some fan fiction or going to fans might jog some other great ideas.

I have an idea. The show eventually spans itself outward from Storybrooke (people can leave). The government doesn’t like the supernatural. Somehow and somewhere the CIA learns about where this town came from, and gets involved. People are assigned to keep the matter “contained”. A series of events brings Hook somehow working in a covert (007) manner for the CIA and because of that leaves Storybrooke for a real job promising really great adventures around the world. Good exit for Hook, and a lot of happy fans because he’s not dead. This also gives the possibility for another series or more stuff for OUaT at some point down the road. There you go.

[oncewatcher]

I agree, Bee. Consulting fan ideas should not be below, or beyond the resources Once’s writers might reach out to. I hope they know how it will impact viewers, if they kill off Hook. It would be more than a disappointment. This would be a great let-down. Keeping him alive and productive, if even not directly on the scene, is a good way to go. Good ideas, Bee. I think that’d be better received than his death.

[toothfairy]

@Oncewatcher wrote:

I agree, Bee. Consulting fan ideas should not be below, or beyond the resources Once’s writers might reach out to. I hope they know how it will impact viewers, if they kill off Hook. It would be more than a disappointment. This would be a great let-down. Keeping him alive and productive, if even not directly on the scene, is a good way to go. Good ideas, Bee. I think that’d be better received than his death.

Ditto.

[maiqu20]

@Oncewatcher wrote:

I agree, Bee. Consulting fan ideas should not be below, or beyond the resources Once’s writers might reach out to. I hope they know how it will impact viewers, if they kill off Hook. It would be more than a disappointment. This would be a great let-down. Keeping him alive and productive, if even not directly on the scene, is a good way to go. Good ideas, Bee. I think that’d be better received than his death.

Yes especially considering people are still mad about the fact that they killed Graham, if they killed Hook it would be even worse

[Myril]

To rub salts into the wounds: I want good story telling, that is what really keeps me watching a show, not liking particular characters. So, if they can’t come up with a good story for a character or not with a good way to integrate a character into the story lines they’re telling, I want them to let that character go, no matter how much I like the character. And I want them to do it, even if it means losing a number of fans or people, new ones will join, if you still are telling good stories. Or maybe not, but that is a risk you have with any TV show with whatever you.

And if the writers have a good story line which means killing a character I like – well, tough, but go ahead, kill the character.

And let’s stop talking just about Hook. He is not the only character on the show, and the unsubstantiated panic that is spreading, is becoming annoying. Starting to make me wish, that we should get done with it, kill him, just to move on. From my observation doubt people want to live with Hooking being only in every third episode, and then even just for a minute or so, that doesn’t leave many options besides killing him once the revenge story line is done. Saying that, because there are characters like Archie (although some are complaing about him being seen so seldom this season so far) or Belle, who very well work without being around much in every episode since they first came onto the show. Be honest and ask yourself if Hook could work that way. Alright, some are sure wishing for more Belle, but I’m not talking about what people are wishing for, I’m asking, what is working while keeping the stories good. OOokay, now quite sure provoked more talk about Hook, oh well, so be it.

Remember Graham wasn’t all loved at the beginning, whatever. Think killing him was brilliant and pretty much the right time to do it.

IMO no character, no matter if main cast, regular, or not, no matter if having many fans or not should be safe. Not from the point of view of story telling. The only thing I would feel sorry about is, that it means taking a job from good actors / actresses, but that is business.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[toothfairy]

[/quote]Yes especially considering people are still mad about the fact that they killed Graham, if they killed Hook it would be even worse[/quote]
@myril wrote:

And let’s stop talking just about Hook. He is not the only character on the show, and the unsubstantiated panic that is spreading, is becoming annoying. Starting to make me wish, that we should get done with it, kill him, just to move on. .

That would probably be a very bad idea.

[oncewatcher]

@myril wrote:

To rub salts into the wounds: I want good story telling…

We all do. That’s why Hook is so popular. This character has so much potential, it’s incredible (providing somebody does something with it). That’s why fans are so intrigued. Not just because he is adorable, but also because he is interesting.

@myril wrote:

that is what really keeps me watching a show, not liking particular characters….

It should be quite obvious that a large portion of the audience disagrees.

@myril wrote:

So, if they can’t come up with a good story for a character or not with a good way to integrate a character into the story lines they’re telling, I want them to let that character go, no matter how much I like the character. And I want them to do it, even if it means losing a number of fans or people

Lack of perspective, and creativity

@myril wrote:

new ones will join, if you still are telling good stories. Or maybe not, but that is a risk you have with any TV show with whatever you.

People don’t like being treated like objects. If the word gets out that’s how OUAT’s writers view it’s viewers, people will be turned off (as they should be).

@myril wrote:

And if the writers have a good story line which means killing a character I like – well, tough, but go ahead, kill the character. And let’s stop talking just about Hook. He is not the only character on the show, and the unsubstantiated panic that is spreading, is becoming annoying..

Viewers are not subject to your likings, or dislikings. The scope of a writer’s capactity makes him/her subject to the conditions her/his efforts are aimed to impact; thus, the public.

@myril wrote:

Starting to make me wish, that we should get done with it, kill him, just to move on. From my observation doubt people want to live with Hooking being only in every third episode, and then even just for a minute or so, that doesn’t leave many options besides killing him once the revenge story line is done

Toothfairy isn’t the only one who pays attention to social media. I do, too. Get a clue. When a favorite character dies, fans don’t just feel like it was done to the character, they feel like it was done to them. This is not about you, or artistic prowess. This is about the viewers, and they’re feeling really gun-shy about getting attached to Hook because they’re already afraid he’ll be killed. Let’s put that in the perspective of a business. I won’t get very far, if my customers tell me what they want and in artistic expression, I tell them what they really want. That’s not going to get very far, when the intangible meets the tangible. In fact, over time, I’ll probably be planning my going-out-of business sale. I was watching a documentary last night on Costco, and they were talking about how many businesses (large ones, like Woolworth’s, K-Mart, Sears) took their customers for granted, and “forgot their place” in the scheme of things. Whether it’s writing for a show, running a business, or whatever, the conditions remain the same. The supplier is subject to the consumer and without the consumer, there is no demand. If there is no demand, then there is no product. Remember: The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. So boldly go! 😉

@myril wrote:

Saying that, because there are characters like Archie (although some are complaing about him being seen so seldom this season so far) or Belle, who very well work without being around much in every episode since they first came onto the show. Be honest and ask yourself if Hook could work that way..

If someone put due time and effort in the creativity needed to do so, then Yes!!! Nothing noteworthy is ever accomplished, by playing it safe.

My house won’t clean itself, and I’ll live in a dump if I don’t lift a finger. Same analogy, here. If you don’t try, it doesn’t get done. The next step, then becomes the asking, of why. I have a very simple answer: Priorities, whether placed correctly or not, inspired by perspective.

[Author]

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