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This episode marked the reunion of the Mills family, somethings I was really looking forward to. While that worked out well (besides the, you know, clunky dialogue and stuff), I didn’t really enjoy the fact that Cora was so easily redeemed.
Don’t get me wrong, she’s a great character. Probably my favorite villain throughout the series. But when you examine the extent of her actions, was it really deserved? This is a woman who:
1. Abandoned her oldest child for personal gain.
2. Killed her youngest child’s first love because “love is weakness,” creating a monster in her.
3. Did multiple things to further Regina’s descent into darkness.
4. Practically did the same thing with Anastasia, ruining her relationship with Will.
5. Tried to kill Snow and Emma multiple times.
6. Tried to kill the Charming family multiple times.
7. In death, even with her heart, tried to a.) hurt Regina’s father and b.) ruin Zelena’s chance at love with Hades.
Despite all of this, she’s allowed to gain redemption through a few musings of “I’m sorry.” While I don’t think Regina and Zelena should go through more pain (I mean, for a show that is so adamant on empowering strong women, it has quite a few examples of misogyny), I do think Cora’s actions should have come with some form of punishment.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Thor’s Hammer, Will Scarlet’s Genie Bottle, Emma’s Gun, Emma and Henry’s Moment at the Castle, Cora, and the infamous Family Tree!
It comes back to some points I made around the episode 515 about can their be redemption without any sort of suffering. Cora’s been in a prison of Hades’ making but not for very long and not for the actual crimes you listed above. The show gets a little sensitive about hurting their favorites or the friends/family of their favorites. In 515, it wouldn’t let Liam go to the worst place even though he turned out to have ensured the deaths of many men–largely because he’s Hook’s brother and Hook can’t have something that painful happen to him. In his case, it’s Cora who is Regina’s mother (and both women are beloved of the creators and writers) so they aren’t actually going to have her suffer for all eternity. But James, who’s crimes aren’t ripping hearts from hundreds, mass murder but just petty jealousy and egomania, doesn’t get any sort of redemption or even attempt. But he’s nothing special to the show…so…it’s “fine.”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Presumably James, as a Prince on adventures, kill dragons and other knights and stuff, but yeah, nothing compared to Cora, other villains, or even some of our Heros.
I guess where you go simply has to do with whether the person’s unfinished business, that is keeping them from moving on, gets finished… Basically whether that person feels they got personal closure. And it has nothing to do with we’d think of when it comes to crimes/wrongs/sins and redemption *at all*.
Concerning James and Cora….we really have to look at these two for who they are. James was a selfish, adulterating, egomaniac….his crimes were no where near as bad as Cora who was selfish, manipulative, and sociopath.
However, Cora also didn’t possess her heart, so she was really unaware of how much turmoil and damage she had done to her victims…James was completely aware. Not cutting Cora off too much slack, but she really didn’t have her heart, so she was practically like a child playing with fire….someone completely clueless/ignorant of the damage their doing to either themselves or someone else. James full blown reveled in the petty crimes he committed.
Upon regaining her heart, Cora completely understood all of the hell she’s wrought over the years and immediately realized the error of her ways. Unfortunately James never had such an epiphany. In the Underworld, Cora is consumed with remorse and admits aloud how wrong she was for everything, James remains the same way he lived, consumed with self-righteous behavior with the ego to boot. It’s pretty clear to see who could maybe get into the good, light side between the two of them.
It kinda goes back to an age old thought that some of the worlds worst people are going to make it into Heaven because of that last minute death bed confession and true repentance, not the ones who do it thinking it’s going to get them in easily, but those who accept and own up to their wrongdoing, and truly feels remorse for the sins they have done…no matter how quick it seems, it’s redemption, and that is what Cora did.
"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
My initial reaction was “so are we just redeeming everyone now?”
i think this episode was wonderful. The family bonding was great. And it’s fantastic that Cora reunited her daughters and set things right. However, before this moment I am not sure when the last time this woman did a reasonable thing was! Just because she did one nice thing suddenly she is redeemed? This doesn’t sit right with me. I actually was relieved when I saw the fire coming up, then the light appeared and I think my jaw dropped. I think she deserved to move on, I’m just not sure she deserved a happily ever after because she did one nice thing in the last moments of her evil life.
The way I took it is that Cora WAS willing to take responsibility for her actions, and was ready to go to the Worse Place, if that was her fate. That might have been enough to warrant the Powers that Be to allow her to move on to the Better Place, and could be a similar reason as to why Liam was spared that fate. Plus, I guess it would have been quite a damper to see Cora get sent to the Worse Place after having those beautiful scenes with her daughters, despite Cora’s long list of sins.
Taking a step back from Cora, I am not impressed with how OUAT has addressed redemption generally this arc. It’s completely dependent on plot convenience and protecting fan/writer’s favourites as RG said. From the characters’ perspective, it’s nothing more than a lottery. I mean, at least Cora and James had a chance to finish their unfinished business. Poor Aunt Em had no such luck.
I suppose what I find slightly disturbing/distasteful is that heaven/hell or ‘Better and Worse Places’ as they’ve been calling them here are deeply ingrained cultural beliefs and the show has been treating them as a cheap plot device for creating sensationalism. It’s bewildering and inconsistent that a show about hope, second chances and humanising villains could be so blasè about sentencing Milah, James, Gaston and Aunt Em to enternal torment. Some viewers might actually perceive this as a moral judgement on those characters when that is not the case. I mean, I understand that they need stakes to make the underworld arc more interesting, but they should have put thought into making it more consistent and compatible with the existing themes of the show.
The way I took it is that Cora WAS willing to take responsibility for her actions, and was ready to go to the Worse Place, if that was her fate. That might have been enough to warrant the Powers that Be to allow her to move on to the Better Place, and could be a similar reason as to why Liam was spared that fate. Plus, I guess it would have been quite a damper to see Cora get sent to the Worse Place after having those beautiful scenes with her daughters, despite Cora’s long list of sins.
I get what you’re saying but that continues to eschew any sort of punishment at all. I’m glad those two characters are willing to accept their fate and their punishment but the show got queasy at the idea and handwaved it away. Meanwhile, other souls–some villainous, some repentant and some nowhere near villain status (Auntie Em)–do get eternal punishment for no rhyme or reason except for PLOT. It’s what @sciencevsmagic was saying about it being blase.
However, I will say this: it works much better in this case–Cora–because we’ve been through so much with her, because of her goodbye with her daughters, and because of all reconciliation that came back in Zelena’s house. Liam didn’t really do any of that until after he was saved and sitting in his merry boat with his victims…
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Here’s something that I just realized. Have we ever seen anybody complete their unfinished business and get sent to the worse place? I think the way we’ve been looking at this is Heaven/Hell, but that may not be quite what the show is implying. So far all of the people who have been sent to the worse place or River of Lost Souls were sent there by force, and without fulfilling what their unfinished business was. I guess completing one’s unfinished business is essentially a second chance of sorts, and getting to go to the better place is your reward. Here’s something that Jane Espenson tweeted a while back, regarding this:
@Chipped_Mug7 Not everything you've ever done wrong is included in the Underworld's "unfinished biz" file.
— Jane Espenson (@JaneEspenson) March 21, 2016
Going by what she said, not all sins are taken into account, when it comes to one’s unfinished business.
Going by what she said, not all sins are taken into account, when it comes to one’s unfinished business.
Eh gad but that’s a fine line to walk. Who decides which sin is greater in this OUATverse then? We have actual gods now but do we have GOD or some sort of universal element that oversees morality and makes judgement?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
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