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I think the unfinished business is the one thing you regret the most then once you resolve that you get to move on. So Cora regretted splitting up WickedSisters the most and reuniting them enabled her to resolve that and move on.
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Keeper of FelixEh gad but that’s a fine line to walk. Who decides which sin is greater in this OUATverse then? We have actual gods now but do we have GOD or some sort of universal element that oversees morality and makes judgement?
I put this in another thread, but I think they are going with a kind of Western take on the liminal state in Tibetan Buddhism. This, of course, allows them to sidestep the question of moral absolutes.
The more I think about their mythology of the UW, the more I think they are actually modeling a lot of it on the Buddhist concept of bardo where the person’s experience after death and before the next rebirth is often negative, and is the fruition of one’s karma (past actions). The Western interpretation of this concept, which is I think what they’re going with, is that “hell” is really the process of battling one own’s “demons” (some horror movies from the late 80s and early 90s used this as their core premise. Like, if anyone has ever seen Jacob’s Ladder). So “unfinished business” seems to go along this type of logic. Which of course also allows the show runners to skirt around moral absolutes. (A quick note that in Buddhism, karma isn’t morally relative, it has everything to do with how one’s actions have impacted other beings, but OUAT is kind of psychologizing it by suggesting that it’s all about the individual, and how they feel relative to their actions.)
I think the unfinished business is the one thing you regret the most then once you resolve that you get to move on. So Cora regretted splitting up WickedSisters the most and reuniting them enabled her to resolve that and move on.
That’s so darn tricky though because that denies the severity of the rest of your crimes and never gives your victims closure.
Put it another way: let’s say Regina’s biggest regret is killing Henry Sr. Okay, fine. That makes sense but that totally neglects all the other horrible things she did and doesn’t give any sort of closure to all the people she’s killed over the years–like the entire village, Graham, random student of Rumple’s in 205….
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Another problem with this arc is tha they are not showing what are these worst and best places? are all the same place for everyone, so the people that went to the “worst” place are all together or each of them has their own worst place? the same goes to “best happy” place, they are all in same place or everyone has their own place and what is this happy place? for example, Neal was the only one we never saw cross to this better happy place, bc he was simply there, so his happy place this is like another reality? For the people that move on, i cant see them being happy, being alone, like im not seeing Neal being happy in a time where he didnt have a home, a family , etc.( i will talk more about this below)
So im wondering if when they talk about movin on after they done or not with unfinish business, if they really get a afterlife, or if they simply die for real and after life doesnt really exist. Because if they do have afterlife, that sort of implies that they are getting like sort of other realities, where maybe these characters we know in present also exist in the other person afterlife, but has a fake, dream, which is also sad. Like going back to Neal, i would see Neal happy afterlife having Rumple, Emma and Henry and maybe Belle, the same goes to Cora and to henry Sr, to Daniel, to Marian, having the people they love,but if the show is implying this, that there is a afterlife happy for these characters, then is not really move on, bc that happy place is full of fake dreams, UGh, just got confused, sad and i think i may have confuse you all as well.
Like @SciFi girl pointed out in 518, the worst place seems to be the River of Lost Souls given Auntie Em’s tombstone and her last known location. The “better” place is the one that’s really messed up. Like is it just 1 realm and looks different for everyone? Is it multiple realms? Is there an infinite amount of heaven?! ARE MORE HEAVENS POPPING INTO EXISTENCE EVERY TIME SOMEONE DIES IN PREPARATION FOR THEM SHOULD THEY EVER CROSS OVER?!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Like @SciFi girl pointed out in 518, the worst place seems to be the River of Lost Souls given Auntie Em’s tombstone and her last known location. The “better” place is the one that’s really messed up. Like is it just 1 realm and looks different for everyone? Is it multiple realms? Is there an infinite amount of heaven?! ARE MORE HEAVENS POPPING INTO EXISTENCE EVERY TIME SOMEONE DIES IN PREPARATION FOR THEM SHOULD THEY EVER CROSS OVER?!
but what is heaven for these characters, if they are happy means that they are with people they love, but if the people they love are alive and not with them, then how can they be happy? That is the problem with what the show is showing with this storyline, besides retcon that dead is dead.
I know my questions are pointless.Who knows?! I mean “hell is other people” so maybe heaven really is being alone?? Unless you are forced to spend eternity with your murderer.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"heaven for these characters, if they are happy means that they are with people they love, but if the people they love are alive and not with them, then how can they be happy? That is the problem with what the show is showing with this storyline, besides retcon that dead is dead.
I know my questions are pointless.yeah, i was talking to a friend that still sees and she was the one that called to me these questions, she even said that she tweeted adam about those, i dont believe he answer her, but whatever.
This interview quote from a while back seems to point to Mount Olympus being the entire Better Place realm, while the Worse Place is the other:
KITSIS | The Underworld is kind of a weigh station between two other worlds. Hades has a brother that’s up in Mount Olympus, and then there’s a place “downstairs” that’s even worse. This is kind of a domain where you’re there because you haven’t found closure yet.
Source: http://tvline.com/2016/02/29/once-upon-a-time-season-5b-preview-underworld-emma-hook-hades/
Now I’m not quite sure that the River of Lost Souls and the Worse Place are the same thing, even though Auntie Em’s tombstone cracked. The tombstone could have cracked simply because she did technically receive a worse fate. There also could have been some miscommunication between the writers for 518 and the writers for 514 (when Cruella talked about the tombstones).
KITSIS | The Underworld is kind of a weigh station between two other worlds. Hades has a brother that’s up in Mount Olympus, and then there’s a place “downstairs” that’s even worse. This is kind of a domain where you’re there because you haven’t found closure yet.
In other words, *handwave* *handwave* *incomprehensible and illogical cosmological potpourri explanation* “Ooh, look over there, shiny!”
So, business as usual from Adam and Eddy.
I wasn’t under the impression that Mount Olympus is a universal heaven for everyone. I mean, it seemed like Liam’s version of a better place was on the watery side. Unless “Mount Olympus” actually means a single realm that’s the manifestation of each individual’s desire, and hence varies by person. But then, what happens if different people have conflicting ideas about what they want the heavenly realm to be?
And on the bad side of things, wasn’t there also a Fire Realm, in addition to the ROLS?
Like going back to Neal, i would see Neal happy afterlife having Rumple, Emma and Henry and maybe Belle, the same goes to Cora and to henry Sr, to Daniel, to Marian, having the people they love,but if the show is implying this, that there is a afterlife happy for these characters, then is not really move on, bc that happy place is full of fake dreams, UGh, just got confused, sad and i think i may have confuse you all as well.
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The only way I can make sense of this hot mess is to assume that afterlife in OUAT is actually following some sort of Buddhist interpretation. A better place is a “better” rebirth (with less suffering), a worse place is a “worse”/”lower” rebirth (with more suffering). The ultimate goal is to actually transcend all forms of attachment, including those to your loved ones, as they perpetuate the illusion of the existence of a self. All realms are illusory, and therefore all beings are stuck in an endless cycle of attachment/suffering. Neal reached enlightenment and but chose to come back as a Boddhisatva, for the benefit of all living beings. He retained his consciousness after death (hence passing unscathed through the liminal Underworld phase), broke away from the wheel of reincarnations, and is no longer realm-bound. He thus chose to come back and warn Emma and her friends that they are lost in a sea of delusion.
(Just in case this isn’t clear, this is a tongue in cheek explanation, not meant to get us into a debate over religious exegesis, or offend people’s various religious sensibilities. I am horsing around, trying to point out how much work one must do in order to make sense of A&E’s shoddy world building.)
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