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I think River of Lost Souls is one of the worse place, but that Fire Realm seems like it is the Worst Place.
As for the Heaven Realm….I see it as being one huge world, where everything is there for everyone! You have amusement parks and the real world for people like Neal, you have the wide open seas for people like Liam, Mount Olympus is surely the capital of this realm and is for people like Hercules & Meg, and you have castles, estates, mansions and innumerable wealth for people like Cora & Henry Sr.
Everyone lives together in perfect harmony, there are no bad feelings for anyone and it’s just peaceful and content. And when one crosses over, the portal opens for what God or the Gods know would be your preferred area in this perfect utopia.
And of course, the Circle of Life plays 24/7 in this Heaven Like Realm.
[adrotate group="5"]"If you go as far as you can see...you will then see enough to go even further." - Finn Balor
This discussion thread is awesome!
A point of consideration we may not be taking into account is that, while these souls are in the UW, they are in some form suffering and performing atonement, particularly as Hades’ prisoners with no hope of moving on until our Heroes arrived and the process moved forward again. The key to moving forward, if you follow the clues from the episodes, is to come to terms with and acknowledge your wrongs and to be willing to accept your fate for better or worse – this becomes the essential factor to potentially moving on to a better place. We did have 1 character who went to the Worst Place – one of Cora’s henchmen – that was our clue to see that just blindly following on an evil path with no self acceptance of fault will end in the worst fate. Both Gaston and James, did not at anytime accept that they had any part in their own fates and deflected onto others fault (i.e. Belle and David, respectively, were their scapegoats), and though they did end up in the River of Lost Souls by accident, had they gone to the “Cave of Judgement” (for lack of a better term) would both probably have ended up in the Worst Place. Milah after years of probable penance was on the verge of self realization and acknowledgement before Rumple threw her in the River, and we unfortunately don’t know much about Auntie Em to know which way her path was laid. I do hope that at the end of the arc, that the souls in the river would be given the opportunity to go to the “Cave of Judgement”
As far as the discussion on punishment, we fall to the age old discussion as to who is fit to be judge? Is my definition of enough punishment the same as the next person’s? It is a very fine line, that we mere mortals will never agree upon (just take the death penalty as an example of a complex discussion).
As far as the discussion on punishment, we fall to the age old discussion as to who is fit to be judge? Is my definition of enough punishment the same as the next person’s? It is a very fine line, that we mere mortals will never agree upon (just take the death penalty as an example of a complex discussion).
I agree but the fire that wrapped around Cora seems almost sentient in that it (or whatever/whoever controls it) decided that Cora was now a-okay.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I haven’t read this full thread because I’m late and it’s a bit TL;DR, so sorry if I repeat something.
At first I was upset Cora didn’t get swallowed up by the fire, but I think there is a larger message, one that Christian people and spiritual people may recognize.
Anyone who seeks forgiveness can be forgiven. Everything they’ve done in the past gets washed away. That is what happened to Cora, as terrible, terrible, terrible as she was. She FINALLY sought genuine redemption and forgiveness.
Maybe that is also the point of the Underworld. It’s a place for you to not only finish unfinished business, but this process leads some people, who are deserving, to a path of redemption and salvation.
As for the Heaven Realm….I see it as being one huge world, where everything is there for everyone! You have amusement parks and the real world for people like Neal, you have the wide open seas for people like Liam, Mount Olympus is surely the capital of this realm and is for people like Hercules & Meg, and you have castles, estates, mansions and innumerable wealth for people like Cora & Henry Sr.
YES! Many people in the Christian faith beleive that this is what heaven is like. A world where things you can never imagine occur. Colors and sounds never seen or heard before. I can see the OUAT “heaven” having all the worlds together with all the “magic” , technology and creatures from all worlds, which would just be amazing to people from each world who have never witnessed things from the other worlds.
If the characters are fan favorites or related to a fan favorite or Disney made a film about them then they will go to the better place (whatever it is) otherwise to the worse place (whatever it is) like poor Auntie Em whom nobody cares about.
"All your questions are pointless"
Anyone who seeks forgiveness can be forgiven. Everything they’ve done in the past gets washed away. That is what happened to Cora, as terrible, terrible, terrible as she was. She FINALLY sought genuine redemption and forgiveness.
Yes most people recognize that and while this is tricky because it delves into religion and spirituality, which is way more nuanced than a TV show can portray over 42 mins, but a good portion of the religions/spiritual people in the world believe they have to *do* something along with asking for forgiveness. You have to labor hard, do good works, say a certain prayer, pray a certain number of those prayers, in some cases you have to make a sacrifice, and in extreme scenarios there may be corporal punishment.
There is also the problem that Cora (and Liam) were asking for forgiveness for very specific cases–Cora, her two daughters and Liam, the sailors he led to death. This doesn’t cover all the crimes these two did yet they both earned the Better Place which would imply there is some sort of force/deity/thing controlling this whole situation who decides which sin is greater.
If the characters are fan favorites or related to a fan favorite
Which is exactly what I said on the first page of this thread lol. It probably does come down to that in reality.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"She FINALLY sought genuine redemption and forgiveness.
Really? Sure, she made things right with Regina and Zelena. And… that’s it. I’m not convinced that I would count that as “genuine redemption.”
There is also the problem that Cora (and Liam) were asking for forgiveness for very specific cases–Cora, her two daughters and Liam, the sailors he led to death. This doesn’t cover all the crimes these two did yet they both earned the Better Place which would imply there is some sort of force/deity/thing controlling this whole situation who decides which sin is greater.
Another way to interpret it is that on OUAT, precisely, there isn’t any kind of force/deity/thing controlling things. Instead it’s all about an individual’s psychosocial hangups. For Cora, that’s her guilt about her daughters. For Liam, it’s the murder of the sailors. We know little about Liam beyond this one event, but Cora had managed to do oodles of damage to other people during her life. But it’s entirely possible that she just doesn’t feel all that bad about that — it sounds like her only real source of guilt is being a bad mother. So while making peace with her daughters resolves her individual “demons,” it seems like a rather nihilistic view of atonement.
One only needs to atone to the people that count. No one cares about the dead peasants. They’re just cameos. (Which is pretty much what @Bar Farer was saying above).
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