Could Regina be the miller’s daughter?

[Daniel J. Lewis]

Prepare yourself for Kim’s amazing theory about Regina and the miller’s daughter. We’ll transfer this post to her when she joins the forums (soon!).

I had posted this message a few weeks ago on another website, but love your podcast so thought I’d share my crazy theory with you guys as well.

Many people believe that Regina is the miller’s daughter. If we suppose that this is true, according to the fairy tale, the miller’s daughter made three deals with Rumpelstiltskin so he would spin straw into gold for her…once for a necklace, once for a ring, and once for her firstborn child. Upon seeing that the miller’s daughter could spin straw to gold, the King married her and thus the miller’s daughter became queen.

The queen gives birth to her first child within the year and Rumpelstiltskin comes back to collect on the deal. The queen is horrified and begs him to release her from the contract. At this point, I have read two variations of the story and the basis of my theory lies in the wording of one. One has Rumpel saying “if you can find out my name in three days”. The other has him saying “if you can GUESS my name in three days”. My theory is that the queen was supposed to GUESS his name. However, we know in the common fairy tale that one of her messengers overheard Rumpelstiltskin say his name in the woods and reported it back to the queen who was then able to “guess” the name and thus keep her baby. What if this is the secret she shared with Snow White? What is Snow White let it slip that the queen did not really “guess” the name, but had been told? If Rumpelstiltskin found out then he would come back to collect saying the deal had not been satisfied. So the queen, in the end, loses her child to Rumpelstiltskin because of Snow White. A child would be something you love most. It would also explain Regina’s obsessive need to have Henry, her trying to get Hansel and Gretel to stay with her and her hatred of Snow White. She is trying to fill the aching void of a lost child. It would also connect to Mr. Gold saying “which deal was that” and Regina’s extremely cold look at him.

If we take this theory a step further…let’s suppose that Rumpelstiltskin collected Evil Queen/Regina’s first born and somehow took him (I’m assuming in this theory that the first born was a baby boy) out of fairy tale land and placed him in the real world. A few years later, all heck breaks loose in fairy tale land and Emma is placed in the magic wooden “box” and ends up in the real world as well. What if many years later, these two lost children of fairy tale land met? Could Regina’s lost child be Henry’s father??? This would add complexity to the story as these two bitter enemies (Regina and Snow White) are in fact grandparents to Henry. Or, could this be the mysterious stranger in Storybrook? Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

Kim

[sairafaith]

i love this theory! it makes complete sense, from what we know so far, and would fill in all the holes. ever since you guys mentioned the Miller’s daughter might be Regina i’ve been trying to figure out how it could be, cause it just seems SO close to the truth, apart from the hiccups you first mentioned. but this theory smooths all those hiccups out. AND the idea of the “thing she loved most” being a child is something ive been wondering for awhile. i really wouldnt be at all surprised if this is how it played out.

[obisgirl]

Okay, I’m totally behind Regina being the Miller’s daughter and this expanded theory, makes a lot more sense now.

However, I did read something on IMDB that Regina’s real world last name ‘Mills‘ is actually derived from ‘milo‘ meaning apple, which obviously references the poisonous apple in Snow White. So, it could go either way.

[hjbau]

After listening to the podcast i really like this theory. I especially liked the idea that Regina looses her son because of something that Snow shares and Rumpel sends him ahead and he ends up being Henry’s father. That is such a great theory all around. I hope it turns out.

[obisgirl]

I have a spin-off theory of that that links her background story to Rumple but not quite the way it happens in the Miller’s Daughter.

My theory is that Regina before she became the Evil Queen, was Rumple’s wife. Now hear me out here. We never met Baelfire’s mother. What we know of her comes from what Rumple said of her and what that big bully of a brute said.

I’m thinking that her and Rumple were married but Regina (or maybe she had a different name), was so unhappy with her life. But despite her unhappiness, she became pregnant with Baelfire but even being a mother to him, doesn’t make her happy and eventually she realizes that she doesn’t love Rumple and wants out of the marriage. But she feels horrible about abandoning Baelfire, so she puts off ending things with Rumps.

Then, the Ogre wars start. Rumps goes to fight in the Ogre wars and whatever happens to help him become known as a coward — happens. Nevertheless, by the time he returns home, Regina has learned of what happened and regardless if it is true or not, she has her out. She leaves Rumple and Bealfire (and by the way, for this to make sense, let’s say Baelfire is a baby at this point, therefore, too young to remember his mother). But Rumple does remember what happened and comes up with this story that Bealfire’s mother died, even though she’s not really dead. Because in reality, she abandoned them.

So, what happens to Regina after she leaves Rumple? Well, she does what can to survive and eventually meets Snow’s dad, who is newly widowed. King Leopold falls hopelessly in love with Regina and they get married. Now, Regina wants another child but King Leopold, for whatever reason, cannot have anymore children or doesn’t want to have another child since he has his wonderful daughter, Snow. Regina is very upset about this because she desperately wants a child, to fill the void of abandoning her son, Baelfire.

Regina meets her would-be lover and they begin to have an affair, and she gets pregnant. But Regina suspects that Leopold is not the father since they don’t have sex that often, so it must be the lover. Regina struggles with that to do and how she can possibly cover this up. (At this point, Regina breaks things off with her lover *before she starts showing).

Then, Rumps shows up as the evil, conniving self that we all know and love. They have a bitter reunion but in the end, Rumps offers her a solution to her problem. Rumps will take the child, thus sparing her husband of the hurt and possible “who’s your daddy?” controversy. Regina, not wanting to part with another child but wanting to save her marriage to King Leopold, agrees to this arrangement. Rumps is happy, promising to return in 9 months time.

But before the child can be born, Snow finds out about Regina’s pregnancy. In her excitement, she tells her father and Regina has to lie, telling her husband that she is pregnant with “their child.” Leopold is skeptical at first but welcomes the pregnancy, despite the fact that he told her he didn’t want or couldn’t have children. However, the deal with Rumple is still on.

Nine months pass, and Regina gives birth to a baby boy and Rumple comes to collect. She begs him to let her out of the deal since her husband knows about the baby and can’t wait to be a father again. Rumps says a deal is a deal and leaves with the child.

Regina, in her grief, blames Snow White for the loss of her child; thus beginning her simmering hatred of her step-daughter. Regina once again lies to her husband, saying that the child was still-born, protecting him from the truth that Rumps has their son.

So, who was the son Regina gave birth to? What happened to him? 😉

Anyway, that is my spin-off theory about Regina & Rumps. Which, by the way, was inspired by Kim’s theory. And I’d been thinking about other ways Regina and Rumps could be connected, besides the traditional miller’s daughter story. 😀

[nonnie]

This is food for thought but IF Regina and Rumple were married….. there would be more cat and dog type arguments and snide remarks between the two on a very personal level. THEY do not seem to know each others vulnerable spots as a husband and wife would.

I honestly do not see this as a very viable theory but then I have been wrong before. And it is not any more crazy then any of my crack pot theories.

Looking forward to seeing it this theory is possible in the future.

Nonnie

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[obisgirl]

It was just a thought. 🙂

[hjbau]

I think that Regina wasn’t born yet when Rumpel had Balfire so i think it is not possible that she could be his mother.

[obisgirl]

Probably.

[riddleraven]

I also thought that maybe Regina was Rumps wife and Baelfire’s mom but I abandoned it because of the timeline problem too. Desperate Souls took place centuries ago and I really don’t think Regina is that old, magic or not. Also, I don’t think she would leave her son for any reason, because the whole point of the Rumpelstiltskin story is that the miller’s daughter ISN’T WILLING to give up her son when it comes down to it–she desperately wants to keep him. And we’re thinking that’s the whole reason the EQ hates Snow. So there’s no way, in my mind, she could possibly be Rumps wife or Baelfire’s mom. And he doesn’t talk to her like they were once lovers. I think he would hate her more now that he’s such a darkie. I do like toying with the theory though and maybe some details that come out will revive the theory again. Who knows.

UPDATE FROM FRUIT OF THE POISONOUS TREE:

In the fairy tale we know the King demands “spin me some gold and I will marry you. Or don’t and DIE.” King Leopold does NOT seem like the type of king to say that! But he does have a darker side (wanting to kill the queen’s lover even though he doesn’t love her himself) so maybe he did act like that. So, fine, she makes the deal with Rumple for the baby and marries the king. Then she has a baby and succeeds in tricking Rumple. But Snow tells Rumple so Rumple comes back and takes the baby. This could explain why the King “can’t love her” which he says to the Genie. Then the king dies and we get the scene where Snow is sobbing over it and Regina comes along still pretending to be friends and hugs her and talks about missing him too. Then she goes on to plot her death and the take over of the kingdom.

Does that sound right to everyone? At first I was going to say that the theory was falling apart in my mind but now I found a way for it to still make sense. xD.

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I do keep coming back to one big problem though. Even if the baby did get taken away because Snow let the secret slip it’s not really her fault. It’s Regina’s fault for making the deal in the first place and Rumple’s more than anyone else’s for requiring such a despicable thing. Even though she already dislikes Snow because the king said she was the “fairest of them all” I don’t think her wrath would be so misplaced. Surely she would just find a way to get her son BACK from Rumple? I can’t believe that if she loved the kid soooo much that she would consider Rumple’s deal so irreversible that she wouldn’t do everything she could to get him back and that would take up her focus, not letting her focus on Snow so much. Don’t you think?

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I’m starting to think maybe she really is just jealous of Snow’s beauty. The genie told her that she was the fairest of them all in this episode and I can see her making a tradition out of that–asking him everyday “who is the fairest?” like in the fairy tale. I know she said Snow “took someone precious from her” and that “she couldn’t keep a secret” but maybe she made that up. Characters lie, after all. Snow is the one who said “yes, I ruined her life” but that could still be because she was the fairest and the king loved her more than Regina and the mirror who she relied upon even said Snow was better. That could ruin a superficial queen’s life. I don’t really want this to be the answer, I still think the other theory is great, but I want to put it back on the table.

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