crazy crack theory incoming! -About an alternate reality/AU and a time-loop

[surayya]

Phee-

General audience. The vast majority of the audience for this particular show who just tune in once a week for some simple fairytale escapism probably wouldn’t be up for something this twisty and complicated

Okay thanks. This is oftent the problem for me with Once. I have all these big ideas for where I think they should take the story and then is disappointed when they dont go so far. Surayya-

The way I understand what you are saying, is to make the consistent causal loop paradox work, you are proposing Emma travels back twice? …. Then is either stuck there forever after or travels forward in time back to the future (see what I did there – sorry I just had to go there lol )

No Emma always only travelled back ONCE, but in order for her to do it, she had to already have done it once before lol I know its tricky but when you get it, it sort of make great sense in its own strange way.
Emma (her AR version) travelled back in time, to the day of the twister, from the AR. She makes the baby switch and as soon as she has done that, and Z Again is the baby that ends up in Oz, everything goes back to normal. The AR version of Emma seizes to exist And everything Z did was in vein, because we just go back to present day Storybrook, right after Z enacts her new curse (sends baby Regina back in time)- so because of what AR version Emma did, nothing really happens, exept baby Regina is lost in the time loop and now only adult Regina is left..

 

I think what is confusing me is where is your AR version of Emma coming from? There is only one time line (consistent causal loop = only 1 time line- there is no AR or AU created with that paradox? ie. It is a chain of causes that closes back in on itself. A causes B, which causes C, which causes X; which causes A, which causes B, which causes C, which causes X, which causes A… & so on ad infinitum.

So you’d Have to have current Emma {A} travel back in time {B} (because she always did), switches back babies? {C}, then she’d be stuck there {D1} (in which case Henry looses her again, as does Snowing & this means it’s no longer consistent casual loop) or she has to travel forward in time, back to the present {A} & things continue on as normal- HOWEVER, Snowing should ALWAYS have remembered the events that took place in the past in EF when/ IF Emma & or Hook interact with them, Emma cant just simply cease to exist because there is only ever one version of herself in the constant causal loop paradox.

In all honesty I can only see Zelena doing time travel if she knows SHE herself {we shall call current day Zelena- Z1} personally will benefit from her efforts- I dont think she is generous enough in nature to give what she wants for {Z1} herself to another version {we shall call AR or Parallel Reality Zelena- Z2} of herself, as she {Z1}would still be missing out on the life she wanted. So for me the only paradox that makes sense is for the time travel in this case is the Grandfather paradox. So Z1 travels back in time to alter her own life, by stopping Cora from giving her up? & by doing so is born a commoner (as Cora wouldnt be able to marry a prince with a child in tow), dooms Regina to never being born, dooms Snow to never meeting her TL/Prince Charming, so Emma is never born, nor is Henry, Rumple is never able to cast curse 1.0, so never finds Bae, Snow never meets Red, Charming probably never becomes a prince at all & so on & so forth. So Emma & Killian travel back in time to try prevent {Z1} Zelena from changing the timeline & causing people to stop existing.

My biggest problem with all this is how on all the purple smoke curses in Once, do they manage to get time travel devices/curses to go forward & back in time???

If time travel was possible why would Rumple simply not have used that as an effective & straight forward means of  returning to Bae 100’s of yrs ago?

[Grimmsister]

Surayya-

I think what is confusing me is where is your AR version of Emma coming from? ….

So you’d Have to have current Emma {A} travel back in time {B} (because she always did), switches back babies? {C}, then she’d be stuck there {D1} (in which case Henry looses her again, as does Snowing & this means it’s no longer consistent casual loop) or she has to travel forward in time, back to the present {A} & things continue on as normal- HOWEVER, Snowing should ALWAYS have remembered the events that took place in the past in EF when/ IF Emma & or Hook interact with them, Emma cant just simply cease to exist because there is only ever one version of herself in the constant causal loop paradox.

Im glad you ask all these questions because this is a very interesing discussion Sur (can I call you Sur?) But also very hard to explain.

Where did AR version Emma come from? She came from the AR. She was never in the Old Reality(from here on I will call Old Reality OR) When Z sends the baby back in time to take her place in the Twister, Z starts a new timeline.
It is within this timeline AR Emma is born. Because OR Emma tricked Z and kept her magic, AR Emma will remember life as her OR self- Thus being able to, by magic Means, travel back in time to the day of the Twister and make the reverse baby switch.

This Again puts baby Z in the Twister and Z goes to Oz. This erases the timeline that Z started. Therefore AR Emma also is erased (or maybe she lives out her life in EF, but this is not important to our story)

But by AR Emma putting the babies back as they were before Z’s timeline interference. The timeline we know from all the seasons of the show we have seen, now happens. So Z grows up in Oz, Regina in EF etc.. And the OR Emma is born like we saw in season one. Only to Again end up in the situation with Z trying to change timeline many years later.

In all honesty I can only see Zelena doing time travel if she knows SHE herself {we shall call current day Zelena- Z1} personally will benefit from her efforts- I dont think she is generous enough in nature to give what she wants for {Z1} herself to another version

There IS only ONE version of Z and of Emma and of them all. The reason for us calling them version AR Z/version AR Emma vs their OR selves is just so that we can differentiate between the two timelines. When Z in OR switches the babies she gives HERSELF a new chance, by changing what happened to her on that day in the past. Changing the babies makes her baby-self stay in EF. In if her plan had worked there would then never have been an OR version of Z.

My biggest problem with all this is how on all the purple smoke curses in Once, do they manage to get time travel devices/curses to go forward & back in time???

No idea. But A and E has a good imagination so Im sure they will think some device-thingymahbob up.

If time travel was possible why would Rumple simply not have used that as an effective & straight forward means of returning to Bae 100′s of yrs ago?

If its not going to Work for Z, since she ends up just creating her own problem essentially. Rumple probably always knew it was useless to try.

[RumplesGirl]

When Z sends the baby back in time to take her place in the Twister, Z starts a new timeline. It is within this timeline AR Emma is born. Because OR Emma tricked Z and kept her magic, AR Emma will remember life as her OR self- Thus being able to, by magic Means, travel back in time to the day of the Twister and make the reverse baby switch.

But what about the next stage of events after Zelena sends Snowflake through and starts new AR?

Because if Zelena’s intention is that she basically takes Regina’s place in Cora’s life and Rumple’s plan’s then…*sigh* ok. I gotta think out loud.

–Zelena sends baby in her place

–Zelena becomes the new Regina but because Zelena is so keen on magic she and Cora have a better relationship than Cora and Regina. Because Cora has now KEPT Zelena, she doesn’t take her own heart realzing that “Zelens is enough”

–Cora raises her daughter Zelena and does not interfere in the lives of Snow, Leo and Eva

–Snow and Regina never meet because Regina is no longer an entity. Zelena and Snow have no reason to meet.

–Leo never remarries and is never killed

–Regina never chases Snow from the palace and Snow never becomes a bandit

–Snow and Charming never meet and S1 Flashbacks never happen

–Because Snow and Charming never meet, there is no Emma. So in the AR, Emma doesn’t exist at all. Which means there is no savior for the Curse that now Zelena is going to cast.

–Zelena casts Dark Curse which sends everyone to SB but for good because there is no Emma so there is no Henry.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

But what about the next stage of events after Zelena sends Snowflake through and starts new AR?

Because if Zelena’s intention is that she basically takes Regina’s place in Cora’s life and Rumple’s plan’s then…*sigh* ok. I gotta think out loud.

–Zelena sends baby in her place

with you so far

–Zelena becomes the new Regina but because Zelena is so keen on magic she and Cora have a better relationship than Cora and Regina. Because Cora has now KEPT Zelena, she doesn’t take her own heart realzing that “Zelens is enough”

That is assuming what you propose here would happen as a result of Z staying with Cora. Cora doesnt neccesarrily have to change her agenda because she has a nother daughter. So in order for it to work, we must assume Cora still wanted her daughter married to King Leo. Then Z would end up as Snows stepmother, like Regina did. Z would drive away Snow and Snow would meet Charming and have Emma.

–Snow and Regina never meet because Regina is no longer an entity. Zelena and Snow have no reason to meet.

–Leo never remarries and is never killed

–Regina never chases Snow from the palace and Snow never becomes a bandit

–Snow and Charming never meet and S1 Flashbacks never happen

–Because Snow and Charming never meet, there is no Emma. So in the AR, Emma doesn’t exist at all. Which means there is no savior for the Curse that now Zelena is going to cast.

–Zelena casts Dark Curse which sends everyone to SB but for good because there is no Emma so there is no Henry.

lol- I seriously hate this quoting system I always screw it up somehow. Ive highlighted my replies in the above mess.

Yes that could be the result. And maybe something along the lines of what Z is hoping will happen after she changes her own fate But if that happened that would be a sad ending for our favorite Once characters 🙁

The time-loop theory only Works if Cora treats baby Z the same way she did Regina. And Z grows up the same way as Regina and makes the same choices for a good part of the way.

There is a problem in if Cora really did want to give up baby Z, then why did she all of a sudden take her back? Maybe Cora never gave up baby Z. Is it not the Monkey Wiz that tells Z that Cora gave her up because she couldnt make her a royal? I will have to go back to “not easy being green” ep and check this. Because If Cora never gave up Z intentionally, and Monkey Wiz lied about that, that would solve the problem.

[RumplesGirl]

The time-loop theory only Works if Cora treats baby Z the same way she did Regina. And Z grows up the same way as Regina and makes the same choices for a good part of the way.

Well here is another problem I came up with while eating.

Let’s say Zelena trades Baby Snowflake for Baby Zelena. That doesn’t change the fact that Cora gave up baby Zelena in the first place. So how is Zelena supposed to get baby Zelena back to Young Cora and have Cora raise baby Zelena.

Zelena can meddle with baby swapping all she wants, but how does she convince Cora to raise her?

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

Well here is another problem I came up with while eating.

Let’s say Zelena trades Baby Snowflake for Baby Zelena. That doesn’t change the fact that Cora gave up baby Zelena in the first place. So how is Zelena supposed to get baby Zelena back to Young Cora and have Cora raise baby Zelena.

Zelena can meddle with baby swapping all she wants, but how does she convince Cora to raise her?

Yes Ive been thinking this thing over a bit now. Like I wrote in the above post, it was then Monkey Wiz that told Z Cora gave her up because Z could never make her a royal, but maybe Wiz Walsh lied? Or didnt understand what he saw in his floor-mirror?

If so then maybe Cora never gave up Z (this is also assuming the hooded figure we see in Wiz’s floor is Emma) So if Cora never gave up Z- Then when adult Z sends baby snowflake back through time, baby Z is resting comfortably back home in her crip and is not at this time under the twister, that doesnt happen until Emma goes back in time to steal baby Z from Cora and place her in the twisters path- what we see in the Wiz’s floor 😀 get it!! its a beautiful thing.. excuse me for being proud of this theory, but I really loves it, if it doesnt happen on the show I am suing Adam and Eddy 😉
Okay that solves the problem viewed from Coras side.. but seing it from Z’s side is a Little trickier because: If Z believes Cora gave her up, then how does she plan on getting Cora to keep her baby self? Thats tricky. Have you any ideas RG? I will have to think it over for a bit.

[RumplesGirl]

Yes Ive been thinking this thing over a bit now. Like I wrote in the above post, it was then Monkey Wiz that told Z Cora gave her up because Z could never make her a royal, but maybe Wiz Walsh lied? Or didnt understand what he saw in his floor-mirror?

Yes I’ve been wondering if Cora really gave her up or not.

If Z believes Cora gave her up, then how does she plan on getting Cora to keep her baby self?

Magical plot device #5621?

If this is Z’s plan…then Z must have extra information that we do not yet have–like maybe that Cora never abandoned her child but “lost” her.

If, however, Cora did give up Zelena, leave her in the woods, then Zelena  knows this as well and plans to do change something even BEFORE Cora gave her up.

So if Cora was left by Z’s father and that’s what caused Cora to give up baby Z, then the real moment that needs to be changed is not giving Z up, but having Cora left by Z’s father.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Grimmsister]

wait, could it have something to do with brainless Rumple? If Z believes Rumple is the cause of why Cora doesnt want her.

Because She was Coras first born and Coras first born was what Cora owed too Rumple and that way Z would be a problem for Cora becoming a royal- That is what Z believes I mean.

If Z believed Cora thought this. Maybe Z sees these Things in the Wiz’s floor-mirror.

So Z believes making Rumple a brainless dimwit, will convince Cora to keep baby Z anyway, because Rumple is no longer a threath?

If, however, Cora did give up Zelena, leave her in the woods, then Zelena  knows this as well and plans to do change something even BEFORE Cora gave her up.

So if Cora was left by Z’s father and that’s what caused Cora to give up baby Z, then the real moment that needs to be changed is not giving Z up, but having Cora left by Z’s father.

holy bejeepees this gets more and more complicated 😉 My brain feels like mashed potato now O_o

[RumplesGirl]

Because She was Coras first born and Coras first born was what Cora owed too Rumple and that way Z would be a problem for Cora becoming a royal- That is what Z believes I mean.

But if she knows that, then she would also know that the contract was broken when they rewrote it.

So Z believes making Rumple a brainless dimwit, will convince Cora to keep baby Z anyway, because Rumple is no longer a threath?

But she needs Rumple to not be dimless because AR Zelena still needs a teacher.

 

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[surayya]

(can I call you Sur?)

Of course you can call me Sur if you like (Rayya works too, since Surayya is my cats name & I often shorten it to Rayya while talking to her lol) @Grimmsistr 😉

I will slowly read through the latest comments while I have breakfast (gotta love Easter weekend for the slow start mornings! 😉 ) & try make my holiday brain function in a useful matter for the ‘seriousness’ of paradoxical time travel talk lol 😉 Not sure I will get through it all before I leave (Surf, sand & horse beckon)- before the weather packs it in, but will come back to whats left later on 🙂

[Author]

Posts