crazy crack theory incoming! -About an alternate reality/AU and a time-loop

[RumplesGirl]

4) “It always Happened” –the wheel of time, idea that they used in LOST, that the past was caused by the future. I could see them doing this, as it is mystical and what they did in LOST, and fits the “magic” feel of the show.

Because ONCE is so deeply entrenched in the lessons A and E learned from LOST, I can see it going this way too. And because ONCE is fantasy more than scifi, they’ll come up with some magical explanation as to why Snow and Charming wouldn’t remember having met Hook in the past when they meet him for the first time in S2. Memory potion, a reset of the timeline, or “it always happened this way” but it wasn’t the present course of events for Emma and co yet.

 

[RumplesGirl]

Parallel universe (You can change the past, but you’ll just create a brand new timeline/AU. Ie. You kill ‘someone’, but it doesnt change your own future, it only creates a ‘new’ future where that ‘someone’ is now dead).

I was going back through and reading through Surayya’s list of time paradoxes and this one also seems most likely.

Whatever is happening in 321/322 has to set up S4, at least the first half. If Zelena succeeds in creating an alternate reality where she has “won” (defeated Regina, Rumple, and Snowing) then we’re going to be in a parallel alternate universe and the main thrust of S4A will be getting everyone back to their original timeline or chain of events.

Very Fringe S4 where in the previous season Peter saves the world and resets the timeline but as a result he is wiped out of existence and set into an unknown and is trying to get back to Olivia and Walter and when he does finally manage to manifest in the new timeline, no one remembers him until the memories and the past feelings of everyone start bleeding through into the new timeline/reality. So in the end, nothing is reset so much as the time realities eventually converge (because Olivia chose Peter over no longer remembering him)

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[surayya]

What I am doing, to make the time-loop theory Work, is assume that Cora’s actions was still the same concerning her daughter, even if her daughter was Z. And it IS very posible for Cora to act the same way she did when Regina was the daughter.

My problem with this, is for Regina to be married off to Leo, Cora gives up baby Z to become royalty.

So if Cora doesnt give up baby Z, she doesnt become royalty.

If Cora doesnt become royalty,  how would Cora keep Z (a child with no birth right to the crown) & still have a legit marriage to a prince? A prince/king isnt going to want (especially an older) illegitimate child running around, who could steal the throne off their legitimate ‘royal bloodline’ children.

For the timeline to function as it has in OR, Cora needs to marry Henry, but she couldnt marry Henry IF she already had another child (Z) in tow & that’s the 1st thing I dont understand about your theory? Z would have to some how convince Henry that baby Z is his child to Cora, who he had with Cora before he even meet her, since Z was born before Cora was imprisoned (I assume- as how on earth would a women living in those conditions ‘hide’ being pregnant & seeing another man from her husband?… unless she used magic- but then she’d have to use magic on literally everyone in the castle & any visitors, tradesmen etc.) o.O – I think my brain needs a vacation lol 😉

you keep talking about there being two different realities. And I keep saying there is only one reality. If Z goes back in time to her baby-Hood (in the one and only reality) alteres what happened on that particular day, she changes the history of that reality- ergo Altered Reality or AR. She doesnt create a new distinct reality seperate from the one she lives in, because yes that would not mean anything to her own self and just be useless. She alteres her own reality-

Ah, I understand you now! You confused me with your “OR Emma” & “AR Emma” comments- so it sounded like you where talking about 2 different Emma’s, so I was having to guess you where also talking about 2 different timelines going on or splitting 😉 I still have problems (which I’ve already talked about in other posts) with Looping the time line so it always happened though.

After that, events take place, we have to assume that events take place in an order  that makes Emmas birth possible- and that is not impossible. We could also think up all kinds of different orders of events which doesnt make Emmas birth possible, but that would be useless, so why do it if we are trying to make the Time-loop Work?

Answered above 😉

Z lives her life as Regina Up until the day that Emma, having remembered OR because she has magic and this Emma is like a new reincarnation of OR Emma, not a different version, but old Emma taken back in time by Z’s time-curse. So Emma remembers, and sets in motion the events that will stop the time-loop.

See, my understanding here is you’ve just created a whole new reality, rather than staying true to the ‘actual’/OR timeline we already have & this is where you loose & confuse me on your “one timeline/loop theory” & “one Emma thing” lol- we either have to have 1 timeline, that gets course corrected back to normal by someone time traveling back & stopping Z from actually achieving altering whatever it is she wants to alter in the 1st place – so the altered event NEVER happens & our timeline stays in tact, but the characters whom travel back are developed more & plot are moved forward by their experience (which I’m all for seeing play out & what I tried to jimmy what I thought your theory was into- so it fit & worked in a logical casual loop time paradox).

Or we get a different timeline, because a slightly altered version of events does actually take place when Z is successful (AR or grandfather paradox are at work here- not loop)- ie. Z isnt Regina, so Z will not make all the exact same decisions as Regina made in her life & even if by some plot device, Z did make exactly the same choices/decisions as Regina did & events proceeded EXACTLY as they do in OR (but Z just replaces Regina), how would Emma remember something that happened before she even came into existence? Because she (or anyone) shouldnt be able to remember stuff that hasn’t actually happened to them personally- It’s that whole cause before effect thing again.

So to break it down even further:

You are saying Z goes back & changes things so she takes Regina’s place. Therefore Z as we know her now, no longer exists- Rumple, Snowing, Emma, Henry etc no longer are the ‘same’ people we know & love, since they have now lead altered lives (because Z took Regina’s place). I’m with you here! (BUT this is NOT loop theory/paradox- it is grandfather paradox).

This point here is where you loose me: Emma (who has been altered, as Z’s plans have been carried out, so this is a different version of events playing out to the actual version of events that should have happened in S1, S2 & S3a), somehow ‘magically” remembers a completely different version of events playing out- including stuff that happened before she she was born (like how would she know Z altered the timeline? How would Z even know she altered the timeline for that matter?), from a now totally different reality (the one we knew from seasons 1,2 & 3A) to her own & somehow remembers Regina- who has NEVER existed in her/this new reality & somehow magically figures out all by herself how to travel back in time to change the altered timeline (by undoing the alterations Z caused- again goodness knows how she knows what was altered?!), She then snaps back to OR Emma & Everyone is changed back to the OR people we know & love from the previous seasons… Ok, yes they could do this, but why would they, since any character growth will be lost, given the characters are instantly changed & there is no real forward movement of the plot or character development from where we left off before time travel was introduced as a result? This is why I really dont think they can let it get that far- Z “trying” to alter the time line- yes, but Z actually succeeding & changing the timeline? That only works (IMO), if events play out as I mentioned earlier- so EVERYONE is still alive & kicking as they are now- but again how would we get to the point where Z wants to travel back in time, for Emma to ‘know’ about needing to go back in time?

The only way time travel will make sense IMO- is if Z’s planed changes/alterations are not actually successful, thanks to the intervention of our hero/s stopping her- then if nothing else, those that stop her have their character/s developed further & that development in turn, could help drive the plot forward.
So it would look some like this:

• Z plans to go back & let’s say ‘replace Regina’-
• Emma plans to travel back & stop her-
• Z travels back-
• Unknown to Z, Emma also travels back with Hook (going off of the BTS spoilers)-
• Z starts putting her plan into action to mess with the time line-
• Emma shows up & prevents her from successfully carrying off her plan/s-
• Z & Emma have a ‘show down’ & Z is defeated/disabled-
• If Z doesnt die, defeated Z, Emma & Hook travel back to the future-
• Everyone remembers everything- knows what Z tried to do, everyone knows Emma & Hook went back to save them (some may even now recall meeting them) etc.)-
• Emma & Hooks (along with maybe Regina’s & Robin’s- since I’m sure Z would do the whole ‘spell out my evil/wicked plan’ thing) character’s are developed further thanks to this series of events unfolding & their actions to prevent disaster, which in turn helps drive the next plot point forward.-

In this version I’ve used a mix of ‘loop’ & ‘grandfather’ paradox but maintained the integrity of our actual timeline’s version of events- there is only one timeline- if an alteration is made, everyone connected to it will be altered as well, but the events always played out as they did, so Z cant actually be successful in her plans anyway.
For the time loop theory you propose your theory is based on to work- Zelena can NEVER be successful in actually changing the time line (because loop theory/paradox = the past cant be changed from what it was, as it always happened that way), because if she is successful, she IS actually altering the timeline AWAY from what OR actually is, so the past as it should have happened, wouldn’t have happened & the characters are altered from their OR state as a result of that- if that makes sense? This is what confuses me most with your version of events, as how you have worded it, you are indeed creating a ‘different’ reality away from the one that actually happened.

[surayya]

Using the actual Scientific understanding of multible universes is alright, but I dont think its neccesary in trying to understand timetravel in Once’s universe. Since Once is a faitytale in which people are able to make giant cupcakes appear in their hand out of thin air.. I mean actual real World science dont really aply here By making timetravel (or timeloopy glitches) logical in a fantasy story, doesnt mean it has to Work under our real World natural Laws. We only need to make it Work within the stories logic Laws. And so Im asking what about the time-loop doesnt Work under the stories natural logic and law? Time-loop wouldnt be possible under the multible universe theory you point out. But what about the theory I propose is unlogical under the Once universe Laws? What do you mean by saying that because Once is a fantasy show they cant do timetravel, because that belongs in SciFi ? Thats like saying a Romantic movie may never involve any action because that belongs in Action movies!!! people/writers/movie makers merge these Things  all the time and why shouldnt they?

You miss understand me- Time travel by its very nature IS science, so it has to be rooted init, the show has already made this concept cannon with the whole Rumple/Whale Science & Magic thing, why would they back track on that now? ie. Whale being a “Doctor” on show is rooted in Science– Not Magic, he can not just ‘magically’ make medicine cure the dead or reattach limbs, because it’s convenient to the plot! medicine only works with-in the rules that govern it, aka it’s based in science/fact, despite the fact it’s a fantasy drama.

Fantasy is just that-“Magical” make believe stuff happening, but Time travel like is not a “fantasy” concept- there is a whole science behind it.

If we are just going throw stuff on the table & say has to be possible because of “fantasy/Magic”, then Rumple should just legit kill WW, because he is the DO & despite the dagger’s power over him- it’s a fantasy show! Who cares about the ‘rules’ that govern how things work- anything can happen. Or better yet why doesnt Emma just magically come up with the idea that she she is more powerful & simply waltz up to Z & take Rumples dagger? It’s fantasy so why cant that happen?… you see where I’m going here? Just because it’s fantasy doesnt mean A&E have been stupid with it (for the most part), they have kept to the principles that govern magic/science/time etc- we dont see magic ‘creating’ new people, we dont see science ‘reattaching limbs’, we dont see time being ‘bent’ to make our flow of events ‘fit’.

 

[surayya]

Agreed. Emma is vital to Rumple. But maybe that’s the point? She’s vital to HIM, not Zelena. If Zelena can figure out a way to make sure there is no Savior, then she’s won over Rumple, Regina, and Snowing

Good point.

I guess two options 1) Everyone gets “reset” and S4 is trying to find Emma in the AR OR Emma trying to find everyone else. Ever watch “FRINGE?” Think S4 Peter 2) Zelena is defeated and everything goes back to normal

Agree with your assessments- I dont want to see the 1st option come to pass tbh- I like the characters we have & think it’d be a waste of all the character development we went through for 2 & 1/2 seasons if that gets blown out the window + I dont want them to ‘skip’ over a heap of character development, saying it happened ‘when reality changed’ :/ But maybe this is what Grim is thinking about? The timeline never goes back to OR, since Z was successful.

That makes a lot of sense. The only issue I guess I have is from a “what A and E have said before” stance. They said they’d never do time travel on the show. But I guess they can go with “Emma’s the Savior so she’ll be the one to go because she’s so powerful” (And Hook for reasons?)

I know & thats whats blowing my mind here- they said it! & that alone should make this whole discussion redundant, so why do we now have a villain who has uttered the words to the effect of ‘go back & change the past’ & havent we already had it said on show that magic “cant change the past”?

or why a shadow could go to the world without magic or be trapped by a candle in a coconut

LOL- duh, NL grew “Magical” coconuts with shadow tapping properties which required flame to activate 😉 :p 😉 But all joking aside I get what you are saying, however they still follow ‘rules’ that they’ve laid down in general.

Mr. Gold, unless there was some foresight and planning on Gold’s part–but they didn’t SHOW US that!  The way they DID show us the story, it was supposed to be a “legitimate” adoption, stupid because Regina doesn’t even legitimately exist in the countries of the land without magic but hand-waive away all such logical quibbles.

I always put that down to the false 28yrs of memories- Gold was a “shady character” in SB, able to deal in the underground/ black market side of our world thanks to his cursed personality. It makes sense that all “paper work” involved was done though less than “ideal” legal channels (since Gold was involved), but just as fake Birth certs & passports can be made to fool law enforcement, along with fake backgrounds, I assumed Regina would simply have Gold “procure” the necessary paperwork required for her to adopt a child- I really dont see that as a plot hole.

4) “It always Happened” –the wheel of time, idea that they used in LOST, that the past was caused by the future.  I could see them doing this, as it is mystical and what they did in LOST, and fits the “magic” feel of the show. If they do this, I think it is likely they won’t alter the events they showed in the narrative already,

I agree with all of this- it’s why I’m thinking what I’m thinking 😉

Anyway, if they do this crack idea–then maybe Snowflake is the origin of the Dark One curse.   Maybe someone’s thrown that out already, as I said, didn’t have time to read through the whole crack thing, but if they do that, it would have a certain logic to it.  True Love reversed–into the Dark One.   So Snowflake would be Zoso or his predecessor.  After whatever happens to take “our heroes” back in time, they eventually find a way back to the future, but Snowflake has to stay behind and grows up as the first Dark One, and Rumple ends up in the future curse free.

Holy giant smoke monsters batman!  I love this crack, boy when you go crack, you REALLY go “crack” lol But if they do that, I’d cry- poor Snowing to loose another baby!

Honestly though, I think they may just have Z cast a curse that makes it “as if” Regina had never been born, in terms of changing memories rather than actually changing reality at all.  Why bother with the real thing when what you don’t know won’t bother you?

OH my GOSH! I LOVE this idea! This could actually be what happens! Since then we “time travel” that isnt actually “time travel” & A&E’s “No time travel on Once” will still stand! Oh I LOVE it! Here, have a box of cookies… & some rum cake! 🙂

[surayya]

surayya wrote:

Parallel universe (You can change the past, but you’ll just create a brand new timeline/AU. Ie. You kill ‘someone’, but it doesnt change your own future, it only creates a ‘new’ future where that ‘someone’ is now dead).

I was going back through and reading through Surayya’s list of time paradoxes and this one also seems most likely. Whatever is happening in 321/322 has to set up S4, at least the first half. If Zelena succeeds in creating an alternate reality where she has “won” (defeated Regina, Rumple, and Snowing) then we’re going to be in a parallel alternate universe and the main thrust of S4A will be getting everyone back to their original timeline or chain of events. Very Fringe S4 where in the previous season Peter saves the world and resets the timeline but as a result he is wiped out of existence and set into an unknown and is trying to get back to Olivia and Walter and when he does finally manage to manifest in the new timeline, no one remembers him until the memories and the past feelings of everyone start bleeding through into the new timeline/reality. So in the end, nothing is reset so much as the time realities eventually converge (because Olivia chose Peter over no longer remembering him)

surayya wrote:

Parallel universe (You can change the past, but you’ll just create a brand new timeline/AU. Ie. You kill ‘someone’, but it doesnt change your own future, it only creates a ‘new’ future where that ‘someone’ is now dead).

I was going back through and reading through Surayya’s list of time paradoxes and this one also seems most likely. Whatever is happening in 321/322 has to set up S4, at least the first half. If Zelena succeeds in creating an alternate reality where she has “won” (defeated Regina, Rumple, and Snowing) then we’re going to be in a parallel alternate universe and the main thrust of S4A will be getting everyone back to their original timeline or chain of events. Very Fringe S4 where in the previous season Peter saves the world and resets the timeline but as a result he is wiped out of existence and set into an unknown and is trying to get back to Olivia and Walter and when he does finally manage to manifest in the new timeline, no one remembers him until the memories and the past feelings of everyone start bleeding through into the new timeline/reality. So in the end, nothing is reset so much as the time realities eventually converge (because Olivia chose Peter over no longer remembering him)

Never seen Fringe- maybe I will give it a shot during the hiatus.

[RumplesGirl]

kfchimera wrote: Honestly though, I think they may just have Z cast a curse that makes it “as if” Regina had never been born, in terms of changing memories rather than actually changing reality at all. Why bother with the real thing when what you don’t know won’t bother you? OH my GOSH! I LOVE this idea! This could actually be what happens! Since then we “time travel” that isnt actually “time travel” & A&E’s “No time travel on Once” will still stand! Oh I LOVE it! Here, have a box of cookies… & some rum cake! 🙂

Yeah that’s….that’s good.

change the memories but don’t really change the past. That keeps with A and E statements before and makes it less confusing than trying to figure out a whole AU

Never seen Fringe- maybe I will give it a shot during the hiatus.

Do it. I can tell you are of the sci fi AU variety. Do it.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[surayya]

Do it. I can tell you are of the sci fi AU variety. Do it.

Lol- yes I am, you really piped my interest with that last Fringe containing post. It’ll drive me nuts if I dont watch it now 😉

[Grimmsister]

Surayya

Lololol I think we are stuck in a timeloop SUR, we keep going back and forth over the same things. I guess it is also a matter of belief. You have to be able to believe that Emma is the same Emma in both AR and OR but split in two different personalities and two different timelines. OR Emma has no memory of AR Emma because OR Emma is living on the Original Timeline (Cool OR works both for Old Reality and Original Reality) AR Emma HAS the memories of OR Emma embedded in her because AR Emma WAS OR Emma and she lived that life before the one she is living now. And when AR Emma makes things right on Twister Day, she seizes to exist in that timeline, because now the Original timeline starts back up again, and she is not born yet here, but at the same time AR Emma will become part of OR Emma on the day in the future, when things are set right. Yes this acquires belief and most likely magic and can not be explained scientificly, not yet anyway ;).

Let me just say that Ive highlighted your comments that Ive quoted from your posts, because I always screw up with the quoting system.

SUR_So if Cora doesnt give up baby Z, she doesnt become royalty.

It was Wiz Walsh that told Z, Cora gave her up, because Z could not make her a royal. He could have been lying or not understand what he saw in his mirror. In this theory Cora never gives up Z, Emma steals Z from Cora and puts Regina in Z’s place disguised as Z. Cora never knows she has a different daughter.

SUR_For the timeline to function as it has in OR, Cora needs to marry Henry, but she couldnt marry Henry IF she already had another child (Z) in tow

Ofcouse he could still marry her?? lots of people marry even if they have children. And Henry was a kind man.. if he started out loving Cora or maybe wanting to “save” her from a life as a cast out single mother, he would marry her.
SUR_See, my understanding here is you’ve just created a whole new reality, rather than staying true to the ‘actual’/OR timeline we already have & this is where you loose & confuse me on your “one timeline/loop theory” & “one Emma thing” lol- we either have to have 1 timeline, that gets course corrected back to normal by someone time traveling back & stopping Z from actually achieving altering whatever it is she wants to alter in the 1st place – so the altered event NEVER happens & our timeline stays in tact, but the characters whom travel back are developed more & plot are moved forward by their experience

Think of the AR as a side road. Now imagine all our characters walking down the main road together, the main road is the OR. They meet Z, Who tells them to go back a part of the road and take a left turn, they do so and when they have walked down that side road for a while Emma notices that it’s a dead end , so she tells them all they have to go back to the main road again. Now imagine that cross in the road splitting the two roads is magic and as soon as they all start walking down the side road, non but Emma has any memory of ever being on the main road, but they still all were, they just don’t remember.

Now the cool paradoxy thing begins, when we imagine that the main road can not actually be walked without them having walked on the side road ones before. Because in order for Z to have become Z and Regina to have become Regina they would have had to already been both versions of themselves. Z had to have lived in Oz but to have been send there, Emma had to have already remembered the Original Reality-Or the main Road. So Which was the first raod? Non of them were right? So they sort of have to have happened in the same time and because of eachother.

This is a paradox yes. And not one allowed by scientists in our world. Scientists would laugh and dismiss it and say “hrmpfh well that’s just not possible.” But hey, what do they know 😉 this is where belief again comes in the picture. We have to believe it is somehow possible for Emma to be both at the same time- Well Einstein said it was possible 😉

SUR_Or we get a different timeline, because a slightly altered version of events does actually take place when Z is successful (AR or grandfather paradox are at work here- not loop)- ie. Z isnt Regina, so Z will not make all the exact same decisions as Regina made in her life & even if by some plot device, Z did make exactly the same choices/decisions as Regina did & events proceeded EXACTLY as they do in OR (but Z just replaces Regina), how would Emma remember something that happened before she even came into existence? Because she (or anyone) shouldnt be able to remember stuff that hasn’t actually happened to them personally- It’s that whole cause before effect thing again.

Z wont have to make all the same choices as Regina. But Cora will have to make the same choice of sending Z to be married to Leo. Z only have to choose to drive Snow away from the castle. Actually she doesn’t even need to do that but Snow needs to end up in the forest somehow so she can meet Charming and have Emma. Emma remembering is addressed above.

SUR_You are saying Z goes back & changes things so she takes Regina’s place. Therefore Z as we know her now, no longer exists- Rumple, Snowing, Emma, Henry etc no longer are the ‘same’ people we know & love, since they have now lead altered lives (because Z took Regina’s place). I’m with you here! (BUT this is NOT loop theory/paradox- it is grandfather paradox).

Yes, I realize now I might not be using the correct terms for all the different paradoxes. But I think what Im proposing is a sort of mash up of the time loop and the grandfather paradox. Because first Z changes the past and makes a different reality according to the grandfather paradox, but then because of Emma we take a u-turn straight back to the original reality. The loop starts with Z’s action changing time and the loop ends in Emma correcting it, so it’s a grandfather paradox within a timeloop.

But Ive found a big problem with this loop which I will address in a later post (How do we ever get further then to the day where Z starts the loop? Wont we always be stuck there going back everytime? And first go by the main road only to be redirected by Z, then go down the side road only to be redirected by Emma?? Lol funny :D)

I did a bit of research, and from what I read, it seems that science will dismiss it as soon as we call it a paradox, because according to science the universe will not allow for a paradox. So we cant really make this thing fit into scientific knowledge.

(I guess Im writing a novel here :O Im sorry for taking up all this space but this convo is so interesting I can not stop myself.)

SUR_This point here is where you loose me: Emma (who has been altered, as Z’s plans have been carried out, so this is a different version of events playing out to the actual version of events that should have happened in S1, S2 & S3a), somehow ‘magically” remembers a completely different version of events playing out-

Emma living in the AR has lived as Emma in the OR, because the OR happened. Think of a paper with words written on it. You can erase the words and write something different instead, but an imprint will be left underneath from the previous words.

Sur_The only way time travel will make sense IMO- is if Z’s planed changes/alterations are not actually successful, thanks to the intervention of our hero/s stopping her- then if nothing else, those that stop her have their character/s developed further & that development in turn, could help drive the plot forward.
So it would look some like this:….

That could also happen. But it is not the only way.

SUR_For the time loop theory you propose your theory is based on to work- Zelena can NEVER be successful in actually changing the time line (because loop theory/paradox = the past cant be changed from what it was, as it always happened that way), because if she is successful, she IS actually altering the timeline AWAY from what OR actually is, so the past as it should have happened, wouldn’t have happened & the characters are altered from their OR state as a result of that- if that makes sense? This is what confuses me most with your version of events, as how you have worded it, you are indeed creating a ‘different’ reality away from the one that actually happened.

Again it is also a matter of believe. If you don’t want to believe two versions of Emma is actually the same- and that a timeline which is erased indeed still happened- and that Z can succeed in changing the timeline, but also have to have failed the same attempt once before- Then Its not going to work. And I understand if you don’t want to believe in these possibilities, because science after all tells us differently.

What I am saying is “Science don’t have all the correct answers yet, so lets explore the possibility” and this is a fantasy story, as you said, it is not a science PHD. We have to make it work, only within the context and rules of the story. But that said, I have found it very enjoyable and thoughtprovokingly-mindbending, to have this long discussion on the workings of time with you :)so thanks for it.

[Grimmsister]

RG

Your quoted posts are highlighted RG, because I hate the quoting system it messes with me always 

RG_Agreed. Emma is vital to Rumple. But maybe that’s the point? She’s vital to HIM, not Zelena. If Zelena can figure out a way to make sure there is no Savior, then she’s won over Rumple, Regina, and Snowing

Yes I think this is why she wants Hooks kiss to take away Emmas magic.

RG_The more we talk the more I become convinced that Zelena is working off a false assumption, that being that Cora abandoned Zelena. So long as Zelena thinks Cora left her in the woods, then she feels justified in her actions. But if we, the audience learn otherwise, then that makes for dramatic irony.

Exactly I think Z’s demise is going to be her false beliefs. She believes Cora abandoned her, but really everything that goes wrong from the day of the twister taking her baby-self to Oz, is because of her own wrongdoings.

RG_” Grimmsistr wrote: Using the actual Scientific understanding of multible universes is alright, but I dont think its neccesary in trying to understand timetravel in Once’s universe. Since Once is a faitytale in which people are able to make giant cupcakes appear in their hand out of thin air.. I mean actual real World science dont really aply here”

RG-The writers will pretty much do whatever they want “rule” wise and say, “no one understand the actual universe anyway, so we can go with our own rules.”

Well yes and in that I very much agree with the writers 

RG_Whatever is happening in 321/322 has to set up S4, at least the first half. If Zelena succeeds in creating an alternate reality where she has “won” (defeated Regina, Rumple, and Snowing) then we’re going to be in a parallel alternate universe and the main thrust of S4A will be getting everyone back to their original timeline or chain of events.

I think so too. Dang its going to be so hard waiting all hiatus to get answers to how they make things right again 

Did you see how well that Screwball Ninja essay you linked too yesterday fits with Z’s time altering buisness?

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