Dark Magic vs True Love Magic

[MysteryKat25]

Crazy thing I just noticed. There’s a huge parallel between what happened in QoH and The Miller’s Daughter.

Regina attempted to basically kill Snow & Emma at the well and then undid it at the last second to appease Henry. How weird is it that Snow essentially did the same thing to Cora in this episode but actually succeeded? (or failed at arriving in time to undo it, whichever you prefer)

What are the odds that Regina would do the right thing and Snow the wrong thing in a similar circumstance? And what does that mean for their future interactions?

The fact that Snow has now essentially “given into her dark side” I think she needs to sit down with Archie pronto or she’s gonna lose it. She’s surrounded by people who love her and they’re full of good / true love magic but she just created an even darker evil queen who has more ammo to throw at her. I fully expect it to be more than just “showing up to a party full of hypocrites” and “you killed my mother” stuff (especially since the mother-killing goes both ways for Snow & Regina. This just got more complicated. When the EQ actually does have something legit to throw back in Snow’s face essentially saying “I was in a similar situation and even I did the right thing, so much for you being as white as snow.”

[Keb]

After seeing the differences in how Rumple trained Cora and Regina in magic and how Gold coaches Emma, I find myself going back to his fascination with bottling True Love. While intellectually he might have known (and probably did) about the reputed power of True Love, I don’t think he was especially interested in it until Belle. He mocks it even on the day he takes her home with him. But after having experienced its power for the first time himself, he gets on the Snowing wagon quickly–in part for the power of it, but I think he’s actually sincere when he tells people at that point that he’s a fan of True Love (as well as what it creates).

So perhaps, having been exposed to that power, he’s realized that anger and hatred aren’t the only ways to invoke magic. I think there’s reason to believe that he couldn’t comprehend that until he fell in love with Belle.

Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing

[Myril]

@Phee wrote:

I liked that they showed Rumple teaching each of them a different way to summon magic. I hope it shows his own evolution in what he believes for himself. Like I said in another thread, he could have said to Emma, “Think how much you hate the people you want kept out,” but instead he said, “Think how much you want to protect the ones you love.”

I’m not so sure if for Emma in that moment it would have worked as well with negative emotions than it did with tapping in her protective, caring positive emotions. One thing Rumple is big master in is reading people, and that means among other things seeing what drives them in general and in a specific moment. Now ask yourself, what emotions drove Cora, were strongest in her when she was there locked up in the tower, and which emotions have been driving Emma the most, were strongest the moment she was in the shop? Think Rumple made both tap very simple into the emotions strongest for them that moment – so if Emma would have been boiling of anger and hate in the shop he would have told here to use that, but that weren’t the strongest emotions she felt at that time. So, no I doubt it shows any evolution in what Rumple believes in, he is just making use of what is there, the same opportunist he has been for hundred of years.

I think even more so because of what he said in the end scene. As usual Gold / Rumple claims he did nothing. Nope, of course not, all fate, destiny, the doing of others, he’s just a tool making happen what has to happen. Same old story, same old guy, he has changed little if at all. So I am not at all thrilled how he makes Emma use magic, don’t trust his motivation.

Emma has the potential to become one or the other, as everybody has. I don’t think that her being the “product” of true love kinda immunise her against ever using magic for bad things or being motivated to use it out of negative emotions. If anything she might have a slightly better pole position for the good side, but as evil is not born but made, so good is made and not born.

Gold claiming to be full of love was a sentence which made me chuckle. It is the way he wants to see it, wants others to see him maybe, but doesn’t tell he is. Not sure even if Gold believed in it himself the moment he said it, I have my doubts. His words to Belle and to Neal were honest, but they were words. I haven’t seen him do anything so far that wasn’t for his benefit, nothing truly selfless, no remorse, he has not even begun to walk a path of redemption yet, not in my opinion (neither has Regina). Not saying Rumple never can get there, but there is a long, long way for him to go. And maybe one of the things he will have to do before ever getting close to redemption is to give up using magic, no matter if he could do even good. But first of all, he has to stop saying, he did nothing, accept responsibility and not blame fate or someone else – and it doesn’t matter if he is alone responsible for something or just had some hand in it, just show some backbone and take responsibility. True love’s magic might be able to break the curse of the Dark One, but that is only one thing that has to happen for Gold / Rumple to truly change.

@Keb wrote:

After seeing the differences in how Rumple trained Cora and Regina in magic and how Gold coaches Emma, I find myself going back to his fascination with bottling True Love. While intellectually he might have known (and probably did) about the reputed power of True Love, I don’t think he was especially interested in it until Belle. He mocks it even on the day he takes her home with him. But after having experienced its power for the first time himself, he gets on the Snowing wagon quickly–in part for the power of it, but I think he’s actually sincere when he tells people at that point that he’s a fan of True Love (as well as what it creates).

So perhaps, having been exposed to that power, he’s realized that anger and hatred aren’t the only ways to invoke magic. I think there’s reason to believe that he couldn’t comprehend that until he fell in love with Belle.

Possible.

Wonder when he created the Dark Curse and gave it to Regina the first time – was that before or after he met Belle? I know, the show hasn’t told that yet. Would be very interesting to know.

How long did it take Rumple to come up with the curse? Okay, maybe for a long time he was looking for other ways, but somehow think, Rumple is not the guy to first waist long time for that and then come back to the idea of a curse, guess he was working on it all the time. He might have created it early, just had to wait for the right person to cast it. Or it as well might have taken a while for him to figure out, what it would take to make a curse work the way he needed it. I wonder because it just struck me, that to make the curse work for his purpose Rumple had to tap into the dark side of people as much as into the good side. Only by combining the powers of both sides the curse did its job, bring everybody to the land without magic, letting them adapt to the new world first without their Fairy Tale identities and memories and then after breaking the curse restore them so that he finally could go looking for Bae in this other world. Why was it necessary to make the thing so complicate anyway, there must be a reason for that. Anyway, it took dark magic as much as good magic (power of true love) to make it work. Might haven taken a bit to make him realize that, maybe it took even his experience with Belle before he had the epiphany.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[arkham258]

@MysteryKat25 wrote:

Crazy thing I just noticed. There’s a huge parallel between what happened in QoH and The Miller’s Daughter.

Regina attempted to basically kill Snow & Emma at the well and then undid it at the last second to appease Henry. How weird is it that Snow essentially did the same thing to Cora in this episode but actually succeeded? (or failed at arriving in time to undo it, whichever you prefer)

What are the odds that Regina would do the right thing and Snow the wrong thing in a similar circumstance? And what does that mean for their future interactions?

I expressed basically the same idea in the favorite/least favorite moments thread. In retrospect, it’s amazing that corrupt Regina avoided doing Rumpel’s bidding but the pure hearted Snow did not. Whose actions in those two scenarios are befitting of the morals that Snow’s mother taught her?

I see a lot of parallels between Snow and Regina. They are mirrors of each other in a lot of ways, from the huge influence their mothers have had on them, to their rebellious attitudes, to the way Rumpel is so easily able to manipulate the both of them, to Snow’s very Regina-like manipulation of Regina herself last episode. It’s interesting how we associate Snow with white, while Regina’s color scheme usually has a lot of black. Regina is like a dark version of Snow White and is very much an example of what Snow could be like if she didn’t have all the things that Regina was deprived of in her life, like a loving mother and a good man (since Regina’s love was murdered). Also, consider how bratty young Snow was in that episode when we first see her mother. Imagine how Cora would have raised a girl like that and it’s not hard to see Snow being just like Regina, if not much worse.

Since I mentioned colors in that last paragraph, I like that Regina’s office has only black and white colors. Does that symbolize good and evil always at war within her…with evil usually winning out. Or is that spartan use of color just a way to show Regina’s very pragmatic, cold, and efficient approach to life. Maybe both?

[obisgirl]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

As true love incarnate, Emma is magic. When Rumple instructed her to use magic, it was through positive feelings of protection. With Rumple, Regina, and Cora, dark magic requires bloodlust. So, will Emma become a major force for good as Regina become a force for evil? Also, Rumple said he is full of love, so perhaps love will win the day where he is concerned as he tries to win back Belle, and TLK will break his curse as the dark one.

I like how this episode confirmed the use of magic — good or evil – depends on the persons’ emotions.

[RumplesGirl]

I like how this episode confirmed the use of magic — good or evil – depends on the persons’ emotions.

Makes me think that those who able to wield magic most effectively are those whose emotions are really close to the surface. Someone without strong emotions probably wouldn’t be able to use magic as well.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[obisgirl]

Maybe.

[Slurpeez]

What keeps anyone, like Snow White or Prince Charming, from using magic if it isn’t hereditary (as I had incorrectly assumed it was for Regina and Emma) or the result of a curse (like in Rumple’s case)? As far as we know, Cora wasn’t born magical; she learned how to use magic from Rumplestiltskin. Was it just because she was full of strong rage that she could tap into dark magic? I know magic needs to come from an emotional place, but that can’t be a sufficient condition. Otherwise, Snow and her prince, who are full of true love, would have the potential for magic.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Myril]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I like how this episode confirmed the use of magic — good or evil – depends on the persons’ emotions.

Makes me think that those who able to wield magic most effectively are those whose emotions are really close to the surface. Someone without strong emotions probably wouldn’t be able to use magic as well.

I am thinking best a it are those types with a sort of hot boiling emotional volcano beneath a seemingly tough and calm surface. Rumple and Cora have shown once in a while a bit of temper, especially Rumple did, but otherwise they seem like people bottling things up in some ways. Regina is emotionally less controlled on the outside but not that much outspoken about her emotions either. And Emma has bottled up much of her emotions for most her life as well, and still has her walls high up.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[RumplesGirl]

That’s a good point, Slurpeez. Maybe anybody has the potential to use magic but Snow and Charming choose not to. So, maybe being able to use magic can take several paths: You are either born with the ability to use magic (Emma and the fairies), you learn (Regina, Cora, and Hook who can at least take hearts) or you are cursed and have magic thrust upon you (Rumple). But no matter if you’re born magical, learn, or are cursed, the actual using of magic comes from an emotional place.

"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"

[Author]

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